Cyprus-Forum.com

[Eric dayi]

BTW, he is not the only idiot who thinks like he does, almost every GC thinks the same. It's always about their rights and their wishes and they don't give a flying feck about anyone elses and you are trying to make me believe that these selfish racist twats are going to treat us TCs fear? Yeah, right!

If we allow these twats to take control there is no telling what they'll get up to.

No thanks, I prefer not to take a chance and live in fear of my life, the lives of my family and my fellow Turkish Cypriots. Partition is the best solution for all of us.

[Pumpy]

LOL!

Partition, that is until you comfortably pop over to the South for a spot of shopping or drinking or clubbing, or even for a quiet drive. Indeed, a veritable blood bath awaits. Funny how nothing happens to either GCs or TCs when they corss the border, isn't it? What scaremongering tripe!

And the generalisation that all GCs are racist blood thirsty murderers! What are the odds? Ridiculous.

I've been over to the North plenty of times, I found the people friendly, even though I look Greek thanks to my heritage.

I think both sides get on fine, it's the extremist agitators and angry ignorant malcontents that cause the friction.

[Piratis]

Pumpy, the whole Greek world was under the Ottomans and Turkish minorities where formed almost everywhere. In fact most Greek territories, including Athens, where under Ottoman rule for longer than Cyprus did.

If we follow your logic, an independent Greek nation should have never been formed, and no Greek territories and islands should have subsequently being liberated and joint it, because the Muslim minorities that where formed there opposed this from happening.

Cyprus was no different, no different at all, than any other Greek island or territory. The only difference is that the British decided that they didn't want to completely leave the island and they wanted huge bases on it, so they decided that using the TC minority and Turkey in their divide and rule game was the best way to achieve this.

Rhodes for example, and the rest of the Dodecanese was seized from the Ottomans by the Italians in 1912. Unlike what the British did with Cyprus, the Italians handed the Greek island of Rhodes (which also has a Turkish minority) and the rest of the Dodecanese to Greece in 1948. Is it wrong and immoral that the Greek island are parts of Greece? Should no Greek island be freed, or should every one of them be an independent state instead of being part of the Greek state?

This is just one example. I would suggest to read a bit more history.

I said many times before that a true independence (not what was given to us) would be the ideal solution and satisfy the most Cypriots. But this is what we say today. Back in the 50s there was no other example of an independent island in the Mediterranean sea. All island belonged somewhere. At that time freedom = enosis.

Makarios was the first even to propose independence in the late 50s, but as it was proven Cyprus is too small and in a too strategic position to be allowed a true independence.

[Eric dayi]

LOL!

Partition, that is until you comfortably pop over to the South for a spot of shopping or drinking or clubbing, or even for a quiet drive. Indeed, a veritable blood bath awaits. Funny how nothing happens to either GCs or TCs when they corss the border, isn't it? What scaremongering tripe!

And the generalisation that all GCs are racist blood thirsty murderers! What are the odds? Ridiculous.

I've been over to the North plenty of times, I found the people friendly, even though I look Greek thanks to my heritage.

I think both sides get on fine, it's the extremist agitators and angry ignorant malcontents that cause the friction.

Jesus Christ, you really are not very good at spreading propaganda, good or bad, are you?

For one, I have never been in the South since 1963 and have absolutely no wish to go there ever.

Two, of course the GCs will behave themselves and not harm any TC at the moment you fool, if they did then they will have hammered another nail in the coffin of their unification dream.

BTW, your claim that nothing has ever happened to the TCs in the south is
a lie.

There were cases where TCs were beaten up by GCs. In other cases TC cars were vandalised at mixed (TC and GC) music concerts. And not one person was jailed for these crimes.

In fact at the court case of the GC who beat up a TC, the GCs lawyer jumped up and shouted "there are no Turks here". The GC was of course found not guilty on all 9 charges of assault and released. But it seems that you are blind and deaf and never see or hear about what goes on in the so called "RoC"?

Until recently the TCs living in the South were not even allowed to vote never mind stand as candidates.

The so called "democracy" in the South was forced upon the GCs by the EU pal and is not because the GCs respect the TCs living in the South and have their best interest in their (GCs) mind. Even then the GCs will and do bend the rukes where and when they can to rob others of their human rights, you just have to look at what happened to the Brit who was beaten up by a GC and his son.

First they steal £75,000 of his money and resell his property, then they kick him half dead and the police calls it a "traffic accident". Last I read was that the father and son criminals were arrested but have they been charged? Will they be taken to court and found guilty or will they be let off scot free just like the other criminal/s?

There are a hell of a lot more instances where foreigners were robbed of their human rights pal so don't even try to paint the so called "democratic"
South Greek Cyprus as whiter than white, it just isn't and you know that as well as I do.

And then there is also of course your EOKA "President" TPapadope and the
corruption scandals.

Drugs, human trafficking, gun crime, prostitution, money laundering, Police corruption and a whole lot more other corruption and problems pal so next time you want to talk about other countries and what goes on there take a step back and think if you want to go down that road and open a can of worms or not. The Newspaper archives are full of the shit that went and is still going on in your so called "democratic" South Cyprus.


Yep, partition pal, you stay in your so called "democratic" South Greek Cyprus and I'll stay in the TRNC.

[Nikitas]

"Until recently the TCs living in the South were not even allowed to vote never mind stand as candidates."

Are we to assume then that the 28000 GCs of Karpasia are all still in their homes, flourishing under a benign TC administration and they vote in local and national elections?

[Nikitas]

Pumpy bizarre thinking:

"And in Britain, we are a unified country, so the context you speak of is bizarre. Not to mention, the fact we have had devolution of the Kingdom, which means Northern Ireland, Wales and to a greater degree, Scotland, have their own parliaments and MPs and their rights to vote in their own affairs"

You mean the Scots can decide what to do with their own oil? Are you kidding?

[denizaksulu]

You are the hypocrite. You enslaved us for 3+ centuries against the will of the native Cypriot people and then you are complaining because we wanted our self determination and the right to rule our own island? We didn't fight against you. We fought against the Colonialists. You started the conflict against us, and you collaborated with the colonialists and Turkey in order for one more time to deny to Cypriots their freedom and self determination on their own island.

We got our freedom in 1960 but that was not enough for you greedy Greeks and GCs, you wanted it all and were prepared to genocide us TCs to satisfy your greed for ENOSIS.

You are like a gambler who goes to a casino to win but cries his eyes out when he loses and makes up all sorts of lies and excuses to justify his loss to his family.

It is solely your greed for ENOSIS that got us all in the mess we are in and it is still solely your greed for ENOSIS that the island will stay partitioned for ever.

I completely agree with this post.

And to top it off, it makes perfect sense, as everyone knows the Greeks are degenerate gamblers!

There's no stopping us Bubbles when we get on the tables!

Pumpy eh? Cute name but it's a shame about the IQ; do you know the meaning of "genocide" pumpkin head?

“The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group”

Thanks GR for your definition of 'genocide'. Could you please ask our friend Piratis to memorise and understand it. Coming from you he might take note. I do accept he is correct on 'ethnic cleansing' which applied to both sides.

Regards

[BirKibrisli]

I am getting this uncomfortable feeling that I am wasting my time here.
People seem to be more interested in tit-for-tat insults and repeating their old well-versed arguments. Pumpy is a bit of fresh air in one sense. And Nikitas of course is very well-meaning as always. But most people(Piratis excluded) are still hell bent on refusing to indulge in a bit of self-criticism, so necessary to improve the understanding, empathy and compassion ,indispensable if we want to find a just and lasting peace.
I was essentially trying to show there are two sides to every story,and what we are told or learnt from certain books are not necessarily the truth of the matter. Another of my aim was to make people realise both communities are the victims in this bloody conflict. That we have been mercilessly manipulated by The Usual Suspects into tearing each other apart. That we were guilty of allowing the big boys to divide and rule us...

Let me tell you a little story. Some years ago I was visiting my sister in Ankara. One day I went shopping at the local open-air fruit and vegetable market... Now they have no shopping trolleys there of course. What you do is to hire a hamal (porter) who comes with a huge basket on his back,follows you around till you finish your shopping,then carries it home for you. These hamals are usually boys or young men,poor and uneducated. On that day when I realised I needed a hamal I looked around and two materialised out of nowhere. They were both very keen for my custom,and began pushing and shoving each other to be the chosen one.I stopped their increasingly aggressive bickering by hiring them both.On the way home I gave them a lecture about the evils of capitalism,free-market economy,and the need for solidarity amongst workers.I said they must never fight each other as they were both victims of the liberal capitalist economy.They must've thought I was bonkers.
I was of course silly to think I could change their life-long conditioning with a few well spoken words...

Our situation here is somewhat similar. I am silly to believe I can make people stop and reconsider their well-established ideas and prejudices. It is so much easier to keep bickering about who is more guilty???,who started it first???,who betrayed whom???,who has more rights???,who won and who lost etc etc...Well,I give up. History always repeats itself anyway. Victims keep hating each other,fighting each other,trying to destroy each other,while the real culprits get to enjoy the spoils of their evil deeds...

I have one final warning for those who think they are the "winners" in this conflict.As long as there exist a grievous sense of miscarriage of justice the "losers" will lay in wait and come after you at the first opportunity. And if they manage to become "the winners" next time,the "new losers"will not rest till they have the opportunity to strike back...And the merry-go-round will keep turning...

I am off to the Jokes and Enigmas section for some sanity...

[kafenes]

I am getting this uncomfortable feeling that I am wasting my time here.
People seem to be more interested in tit-for-tat insults and repeating their old well-versed arguments. Pumpy is a bit of fresh air in one sense. And Nikitas of course is very well-meaning as always. But most people(Piratis excluded) are still hell bent on refusing to indulge in a bit of self-criticism, so necessary to improve the understanding, empathy and compassion ,indispensable if we want to find a just and lasting peace.
I was essentially trying to show there are two sides to every story,and what we are told or learnt from certain books are not necessarily the truth of the matter. Another of my aim was to make people realise both communities are the victims in this bloody conflict. That we have been mercilessly manipulated by The Usual Suspects into tearing each other apart. That we were guilty of allowing the big boys to divide and rule us...

Let me tell you a little story. Some years ago I was visiting my sister in Ankara. One day I went shopping at the local open-air fruit and vegetable market... Now they have no shopping trolleys there of course. What you do is to hire a hamal (porter) who comes with a huge basket on his back,follows you around till you finish your shopping,then carries it home for you. These hamals are usually boys or young men,poor and uneducated. On that day when I realised I needed a hamal I looked around and two materialised out of nowhere. They were both very keen for my custom,and began pushing and shoving each other to be the chosen one.I stopped their increasingly aggressive bickering by hiring them both.On the way home I gave them a lecture about the evils of capitalism,free-market economy,and the need for solidarity amongst workers.I said they must never fight each other as they were both victims of the liberal capitalist economy.They must've thought I was bonkers.
I was of course silly to think I could change their life-long conditioning with a few well spoken words...

Our situation here is somewhat similar. I am silly to believe I can make people stop and reconsider their well-established ideas and prejudices. It is so much easier to keep bickering about who is more guilty???,who started it first???,who betrayed whom???,who has more rights???,who won and who lost etc etc...Well,I give up. History always repeats itself anyway. Victims keep hating each other,fighting each other,trying to destroy each other,while the real culprits get to enjoy the spoils of their evil deeds...

I have one final warning for those who think they are the "winners" in this conflict.As long as there exist a grievous sense of miscarriage of justice the "losers" will lay in wait and come after you at the first opportunity. And if they manage to become "the winners" next time,the "new losers"will not rest till they have the opportunity to strike back...And the merry-go-round will keep turning...

I am off to the Jokes and Enigmas section for some sanity...

Dear Bir

I have been following your threads with great interest even though not commenting. Whether you continue posting on this subject or not, I believe your posts have made a lot of difference to our way of thinking and has shed some more light to what has happened. Thanks.
I am not a person who believes in whatever I read or see on TV etc. I want to hear the events from first hand by someone who has lived these times and tells me what happened by looking in my eyes, then I will decide myself what is true or not. I spent a few days in the mountains last week and spoke to a few older folks and I was surprised that before the fifties the locals did not call themselves Greek or Turkish Cypriots but instead they referred to each other as Christians and Non-Christians or Muslims and Non-Muslims depending on what you were. I found this most interesting as they all classed themselves as Cypriots.

[Nikitas]

Bir,

You are spot on about the lying in wait aspect. A friend of mine was bombed in 1974 while ferrying water to the TCs trapped in Lefka. His innermost thoughts came out one day when he was reminiscing and said "imagine being bombed for giving them water, but never mind, next time we will fuck them". Trying to avoid the next time is the whole point, which is lost on many people here.