Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

And what solution do you propose umit? To ethnically cleanse Greek Cypriots so TCs can live separately? If thats the kind of "solution" you propose, here is a similar one: To ethnically cleanse the TCs from Cyprus, send them to Turkey, and this way we will not only be separate, but we will also be separate by a sea, so it should be even better. What do you think? Or separation of the two communities is OK only when it is about TCs gaining land on our loss and no the other way around?

You already tried to genocide us TCs and that's why the island is divided.

You lost lands while trying to steal ours illegally.

Your people got killed while you tried to genocide us TCs.

The only way to stop your ENOSIS dream was to partition the island.

The only reason why we TCs are now not Greek Muslims is because we put an end to your ENOSIS dream.

What I can tell you from our side is that we will never give up our homeland and we will continue fighting for it. So your options are: 1) Continue the war against us - which will never end since we will never capitulate.

That is not for you to end or carry on, the war ended in 1974 and there has been no more killings/atrocities.

or 2) Accept legality and try to create a peaceful country where the human rights of everybody are respected.

Where was the "legality" when you Greeks AND Greek Cypriots tried your best to genocide us TCs and steal our lands? Oh I forgot, we TCs have no rights because of what the Ottoman did to you poor GCs some 500 years ago, right?

Listen pal, we have another option, partition and whether you like it or not
the island will stay partitioned unless you give up on your "Cyprus is Greek" shite and stop trying to turn us TCs into second class minority with no rights to have a say in our own country and our future.

One thing you can be sure of, we will not capitulate either so you can wait till next millennium and hope for a "power shift" in your favour.

Here we go again with your lies. Who do you think you can convince with all those lies Eric? Uneducated retarts who have no clue of the Cyprus History?

The reason I am telling you about what happened in 1570 is because then was the only known genocide in the history of Cyprus. The Turks then killed 20.000 people within days, which was the 10% of the population of Cyprus.

In recent times the biggest slaughtering was done again by Turkey in 1974 when they killed some 1000s of Cypriots. And then you come to call a conflict where a few 100s of GCs and a few 100s of TCs died as "genocide".

If there was a genocide during that time then the population of TCs would have decreased. Not only it did not decrease, but it increased both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of the total population. So cut the lies.

Here is a quote from a Council of Europe report:

According to the censuses which took place in Cyprus before the factual partition of the island, the Greek Cypriot community amounted to 447,901 (78,2%) in 1960, and to 498,511 (78,9%) in 1973. The Turkish Cypriot community numbered 103,822 (18,1%) people in 1960, and 116 000 (18,4%) in 1973. The total population of Cyprus was 572,707 in 1960 and 631,778 in 1973 (see Appendix 3, Table 1). An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

So when did the "genocide" you talk about happen? In your dream?

You lost lands while trying to steal ours illegally.

Your people got killed while you tried to genocide us TCs.

Some Historical facts for you Eric:

1) The TCs are the ones who started killing GCs and created the first intercommunal conflict.

2) In that conflict both sides lost a few 100s of people.

3) That conflict was over by 1968. It had nothing to do with the invasion of 1974.

4) The killings between Turks and Cypriots in 1974 where again started by the Turks, and in that war GCs lost 1000s while TCs just a couple of 100s.

That is not for you to end or carry on, the war ended in 1974 and there has been no more killings/atrocities.

The war will be over when our island is liberated. What we have now is a cease fire. If you think that the war can end by 100s of thousands of people being ethnically cleansed then your dream will come true, and TCs and GCs will be separated, but not in the way you hope for.

Piratis just for you I come out of retirement:

Doros writes that during the first feudal era under the Lusignans, and then under the
Venetians: “It appears that the Barons were only denied the ‘legal’ right to wound arbitrarily
their serf and slaves, or impose the death penalty upon them. But they could and they
did treat them as chattels; they could punish them, sell them or exchange them for animals,
falcons, dogs or horses (this, however, was abolished by Venice in 1493 which decreed
that a slave could only be exchanged for another human salve) and work them to
exhaustion.”120 The famed wealth of the Latin epoch brought little solace to the common
inhabitants of the island. As Braudel puts it: “The wealth of the island under Venetian rule
had been the vineyards, the cotton plantations, & the fields of sugarcane. But whose
wealth? It had belonged to a Venetian & Genoese aristocracy … certainly not to the natives
of the island, Orthodox Greeks.”121 As Kyprianos, the Archimandrite of the Orthodox
Church of Cyprus was to grant several centuries later, under the Venetians the Orthodox
peasants were, “slaves of the chiefs and upper classes.” In his words, they, therefore,
“never ceased to help the Turks, for they hoped under their yoke to find freedom and
rest.”122 Braudel concurs, stating that, “at the time of invasion, the Venetians were abandoned
by the Greeks both in the countryside and the towns.”123 Michel also declares that,
“At the time of the Ottoman invasion, hatred of Venetian rule led many of the Cypriots to
sympathise with, and even perhaps aid the invaders as deliverers, the prospect of Turkish
rule appearing preferable to that of the rival Christian power.”124 Thus, though the Greek
Orthodox Cypriots may not have gained their freedom in the contemporary sense of the
word, with Ottoman rule an end was brought to the practice of serfdom under which a
great proportion of the peasants had hitherto been bound.125 Further, the Orthodox
Church, from its earliest days a central institution in the life of the native populace, was to
be restored to the position of prominence and power that had been wrested from it by the
Latins.126 It was a fact that many years later, notwithstanding the arrival of the age of
nationalism, some Greek Cypriots were still willing to recognise.
Though revisionism was by then rapidly entering the Greek Cypriot appraisal of Cyprus’
Ottoman past, Legislative Councillor Kyriakides was at the beginning of the twentieth
century, to the delight of his Turkish colleagues, to have openly declared:
120. DOROS 1955, 160.
121. BRAUDEL 1995, 156; Doros also emphasises this reality alluded to by Braudel concerning the Latin rule
of the Lusignans that preceded the Venetian era, arguing that too many historians of the Latin period of rule
in Cyprus, “have be[e]n so engrossed in its surface ebullitions and so dazzled by its glitter … that they have
failed to see the realities of the situation.” The “brilliance” of the era that these historians describe, Doros
says, “in such arresting superlatives, is the civilisation of a transplanted ruling class maintained by tribute –
a brilliant, colourful, unstable and sterile civilisation which disappeared, leaving nothing behind it except a
few, albeit imposing, monuments, and a number of words which have found their way into the Greek Cypriot
vocabulary.” DOROS 1955, 155–156.
122. PURCELL 1969, 345.
123. BRAUDEL 1995, 156.
124. MICHEL 1908, 753.
125. According to Jenness, about 85 percent of the population under the Venetians, “were either serfs (parici) or
free peasants (francomati), the latter being half as numerous again as the serfs.” [JENNESS 1962, 44].
Doros, on the other hand, suggests that the majority were, in fact serfs, at least until towards the end of
Venetian rule. DOROS 1955, 226.
126. For a short exposition on the position of the Orthodox Church during this era, see DOROS 1955, 178–185.
49
[T]he Greek population has nothing against the Moslems of Cyprus and the Turkish Empire
and that from a historical point of view Cyprus and Greece are grateful to the Turkish
Empire. When Franks and Catholicism threatened to strangle the Greek nation by twisting
round its neck like a snake, Providence has sent the Turks who have saved us. … without
the Turks the Greek nation would have been swallowed by the Franks and Catholicism.127
Four years later he again warmed the hearts of the Turks when during another debate
he stated that:
[B]ut for the appearance of the Turks in the East, Greece and the Greek religion would have
disappeared and had they come to Cyprus but fifty years later, the Honourable member
himself would not have been a Greek and the Greek Church in Cyprus would not have been
in the honoured position which it now held.128
If

[Piratis]

Piratis

I did this many times VP. Here is the British made documentary about it.

The video is just a snipit of what was going on at the time but what you have to realize is that the signing of the 1960 agreements was n order to bring an end the turmoil between our communities. You claim we started it which is wrong we had agreed to stop yet you were not happy with the agreement you had signed and reneged causing the turmoil to restart in 1963. You have to get things in perspective, you tend to just pick up pieces where you want to manipulate the whole issue, wwe had the golden opportunity to creat Cypriots we messed up big time so we are not all paying the price. Whether we really want to change anything today is down to us and its obvious we do not.

You didn't retaliate. You started the inter-communal conflict. Big difference. Read Birs report and you will see the victim count for both sides with sources given.

The numbers are not and indiciation of who started things for me 1960 was the turning point its obvious you were still out to get vegence but we were not,we retaliated to your greed to unite Cyprus to Greece by removing the only obstacle left in your was which was the TCs.

There was no bloody conflict after 1968 and until 1974 that Turkey invaded Cyprus. Thats a fact VP. You were not participating in RoC because you choose to remove yourselves and fight for partition instead. I don't deny that we also have a share of blame for the bad relations of that time, but you should not deny your share of blame either.

Conflict comes in many shapes and forms and the TCs were still in conflict with a dominating and discriminating GC community, who were doing everything within their power to get the TCs out of running the "RoC" (supreme court judgements you didnt adhere to) and keep us out by trying to force the Aktritas plan upon ıs before we coudl take our seats in parliament.

Makarios did not invite any invasion. The Turkish troops started to kill innocent people, bombing our cities and villages, and raping under age girls. Makarios had asked the UN to bring legality back to Cyprus, not from Turkey to start massacres and ethnic cleanings.

makarois made a plea at the UN for help when the coupists deposed and Turkey moved in to resolve a long outstnding conflict which had left TCs confined to certain areas and not able to effectively contribute to the running to the country.

The Turkish Army forces tried to land at the beaches in Kyrenia but came under heavy armed fire from the mountains where preparation had been going on for 11 years byy GCs, the first Turkish officer able to get on land and inflitrate GC forces was captured and literally torn to shreds and displayed for the Turks to see, at this point the Turkish army let all hell lose and thats why you suffered such veroicty, you shoudl have handed out roses instead of hand grenades and Im certain you woudl all still be living in your homes. Your eagerness to beat the Turks took you down the wrong path where you were beaten and had to make a run for it, the rest was full scale war against people who declared themselves to the enemy of the Turkish Army.

The facts and the truth is just one VP. I see both sides of the story and I do not deny the share of responsibility of our side during the inter communal conflict. On the other hand you are tyring to present yourselves as the innocent victims who now deserve to be rewarded on our loss, and you know very well you are not.

I do not deny we to made mistakes but never forget we were the smaller population and all our hopes we on Turkey helping us out in a time of crisis, do you remember the taunting songs on the GC radios "Im waiting but you are not arriving" we were the weaker community faced against a prsopering GC community who had hijacked the "RoC" using for all its worth to get ahead and eradicated TCs either by encouragement to go abroad or surrender into demands like Akritas or even face death at the hand of people like Makarios, Samson and Grivas.

VP, the intercommunal conflict started in 1958, not in 1963, and you started it. You don't seem like the innocent small minority being attacked do you? You had the whole of Turkey and UK to back you up against small Cyprus and you know this very well. Cypriots never asked for anything more than be free from Turks, British and foreign rulers and be allowed to democratically decide the destiny of their own island. You call this greed? Wat is greed is the demand of your minority to have unfair and undemocratic gains on or loss and collaborating with Turks and British in order to force this on us.

The Turkish troops made a full scale invasion in order to occupy our country. Maybe you could deny this on 20th of July of 1974, but still trying to deny what is that obvious today is ridiculous. It was clear from the very first moment what the intention of the Turkish troops was since the started to bomb our cities and villages and killing civilians.

[Pumpy]

Piratis has a point, but this is then blown to smithereens by his stubbirn greek pride, when he denies the fact that, if it weren't for the British, the Turks would have taken the whole lot!

But we can't be having that said, now can we?!

[Piratis]

And what solution do you propose umit? To ethnically cleanse Greek Cypriots so TCs can live separately? If thats the kind of "solution" you propose, here is a similar one: To ethnically cleanse the TCs from Cyprus, send them to Turkey, and this way we will not only be separate, but we will also be separate by a sea, so it should be even better. What do you think? Or separation of the two communities is OK only when it is about TCs gaining land on our loss and no the other way around?

You already tried to genocide us TCs and that's why the island is divided.

You lost lands while trying to steal ours illegally.

Your people got killed while you tried to genocide us TCs.

The only way to stop your ENOSIS dream was to partition the island.

The only reason why we TCs are now not Greek Muslims is because we put an end to your ENOSIS dream.

What I can tell you from our side is that we will never give up our homeland and we will continue fighting for it. So your options are: 1) Continue the war against us - which will never end since we will never capitulate.

That is not for you to end or carry on, the war ended in 1974 and there has been no more killings/atrocities.

or 2) Accept legality and try to create a peaceful country where the human rights of everybody are respected.

Where was the "legality" when you Greeks AND Greek Cypriots tried your best to genocide us TCs and steal our lands? Oh I forgot, we TCs have no rights because of what the Ottoman did to you poor GCs some 500 years ago, right?

Listen pal, we have another option, partition and whether you like it or not
the island will stay partitioned unless you give up on your "Cyprus is Greek" shite and stop trying to turn us TCs into second class minority with no rights to have a say in our own country and our future.

One thing you can be sure of, we will not capitulate either so you can wait till next millennium and hope for a "power shift" in your favour.

Here we go again with your lies. Who do you think you can convince with all those lies Eric? Uneducated retarts who have no clue of the Cyprus History?

The reason I am telling you about what happened in 1570 is because then was the only known genocide in the history of Cyprus. The Turks then killed 20.000 people within days, which was the 10% of the population of Cyprus.

In recent times the biggest slaughtering was done again by Turkey in 1974 when they killed some 1000s of Cypriots. And then you come to call a conflict where a few 100s of GCs and a few 100s of TCs died as "genocide".

If there was a genocide during that time then the population of TCs would have decreased. Not only it did not decrease, but it increased both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of the total population. So cut the lies.

Here is a quote from a Council of Europe report:

According to the censuses which took place in Cyprus before the factual partition of the island, the Greek Cypriot community amounted to 447,901 (78,2%) in 1960, and to 498,511 (78,9%) in 1973. The Turkish Cypriot community numbered 103,822 (18,1%) people in 1960, and 116 000 (18,4%) in 1973. The total population of Cyprus was 572,707 in 1960 and 631,778 in 1973 (see Appendix 3, Table 1). An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

So when did the "genocide" you talk about happen? In your dream?

You lost lands while trying to steal ours illegally.

Your people got killed while you tried to genocide us TCs.

Some Historical facts for you Eric:

1) The TCs are the ones who started killing GCs and created the first intercommunal conflict.

2) In that conflict both sides lost a few 100s of people.

3) That conflict was over by 1968. It had nothing to do with the invasion of 1974.

4) The killings between Turks and Cypriots in 1974 where again started by the Turks, and in that war GCs lost 1000s while TCs just a couple of 100s.

That is not for you to end or carry on, the war ended in 1974 and there has been no more killings/atrocities.

The war will be over when our island is liberated. What we have now is a cease fire. If you think that the war can end by 100s of thousands of people being ethnically cleansed then your dream will come true, and TCs and GCs will be separated, but not in the way you hope for.

Piratis just for you I come out of retirement:

Doros writes that during the first feudal era under the Lusignans, and then under the
Venetians: “It appears that the Barons were only denied the ‘legal’ right to wound arbitrarily
their serf and slaves, or impose the death penalty upon them. But they could and they
did treat them as chattels; they could punish them, sell them or exchange them for animals,
falcons, dogs or horses (this, however, was abolished by Venice in 1493 which decreed
that a slave could only be exchanged for another human salve) and work them to
exhaustion.”120 The famed wealth of the Latin epoch brought little solace to the common
inhabitants of the island. As Braudel puts it: “The wealth of the island under Venetian rule
had been the vineyards, the cotton plantations, & the fields of sugarcane. But whose
wealth? It had belonged to a Venetian & Genoese aristocracy … certainly not to the natives
of the island, Orthodox Greeks.”121 As Kyprianos, the Archimandrite of the Orthodox
Church of Cyprus was to grant several centuries later, under the Venetians the Orthodox
peasants were, “slaves of the chiefs and upper classes.” In his words, they, therefore,
“never ceased to help the Turks, for they hoped under their yoke to find freedom and
rest.”122 Braudel concurs, stating that, “at the time of invasion, the Venetians were abandoned
by the Greeks both in the countryside and the towns.”123 Michel also declares that,
“At the time of the Ottoman invasion, hatred of Venetian rule led many of the Cypriots to
sympathise with, and even perhaps aid the invaders as deliverers, the prospect of Turkish
rule appearing preferable to that of the rival Christian power.”124 Thus, though the Greek
Orthodox Cypriots may not have gained their freedom in the contemporary sense of the
word, with Ottoman rule an end was brought to the practice of serfdom under which a
great proportion of the peasants had hitherto been bound.125 Further, the Orthodox
Church, from its earliest days a central institution in the life of the native populace, was to
be restored to the position of prominence and power that had been wrested from it by the
Latins.126 It was a fact that many years later, notwithstanding the arrival of the age of
nationalism, some Greek Cypriots were still willing to recognise.
Though revisionism was by then rapidly entering the Greek Cypriot appraisal of Cyprus’
Ottoman past, Legislative Councillor Kyriakides was at the beginning of the twentieth
century, to the delight of his Turkish colleagues, to have openly declared:
120. DOROS 1955, 160.
121. BRAUDEL 1995, 156; Doros also emphasises this reality alluded to by Braudel concerning the Latin rule
of the Lusignans that preceded the Venetian era, arguing that too many historians of the Latin period of rule
in Cyprus, “have be[e]n so engrossed in its surface ebullitions and so dazzled by its glitter … that they have
failed to see the realities of the situation.” The “brilliance” of the era that these historians describe, Doros
says, “in such arresting superlatives, is the civilisation of a transplanted ruling class maintained by tribute –
a brilliant, colourful, unstable and sterile civilisation which disappeared, leaving nothing behind it except a
few, albeit imposing, monuments, and a number of words which have found their way into the Greek Cypriot
vocabulary.” DOROS 1955, 155–156.
122. PURCELL 1969, 345.
123. BRAUDEL 1995, 156.
124. MICHEL 1908, 753.
125. According to Jenness, about 85 percent of the population under the Venetians, “were either serfs (parici) or
free peasants (francomati), the latter being half as numerous again as the serfs.” [JENNESS 1962, 44].
Doros, on the other hand, suggests that the majority were, in fact serfs, at least until towards the end of
Venetian rule. DOROS 1955, 226.
126. For a short exposition on the position of the Orthodox Church during this era, see DOROS 1955, 178–185.
49
[T]he Greek population has nothing against the Moslems of Cyprus and the Turkish Empire
and that from a historical point of view Cyprus and Greece are grateful to the Turkish
Empire. When Franks and Catholicism threatened to strangle the Greek nation by twisting
round its neck like a snake, Providence has sent the Turks who have saved us. … without
the Turks the Greek nation would have been swallowed by the Franks and Catholicism.127
Four years later he again warmed the hearts of the Turks when during another debate
he stated that:
[B]ut for the appearance of the Turks in the East, Greece and the Greek religion would have
disappeared and had they come to Cyprus but fifty years later, the Honourable member
himself would not have been a Greek and the Greek Church in Cyprus would not have been
in the honoured position which it now held.128
If

Denis, the Ottomans where among the most brutal invadors of Cyprus. Non of the other rulers was good, and each time the Cypriots were hoping that the next ruler would be better than the previous one. Unfortunately the Turks were not.

I don't see anywhere in your quote mentioning these kinds of events:

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

or this:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821

As far as the ridiculous claims that "Turks saved us", I should remind you that Greek Cypriots survived for many centuries under many oppressive rulers. Also I should remind you that many Greek islands that where under the Italians they were given to newly formed Greek nation. That would have happened to Cyprus as well and we wouldn't have any problems today had the Turks not invaded us. So it is obvious that Cyprus would be much better off remaining under the Venetians.

[Piratis]

Piratis has a point, but this is then blown to smithereens by his stubbirn greek pride, when he denies the fact that, if it weren't for the British, the Turks would have taken the whole lot!

But we can't be having that said, now can we?!

Every new ruler came to Cyprus to enslave Cypriots and exploit Cyprus. Non of them came in order to "save us from the previous bad ruler".

Back then the Cypriots where very happy that British took over from the Turks. They hoped that British would give to Cypriots their self-determination and freedom. Unfortunately this is not what happened.

[Eric dayi]

Piratis

I did this many times VP. Here is the British made documentary about it.

The video is just a snipit of what was going on at the time but what you have to realize is that the signing of the 1960 agreements was n order to bring an end the turmoil between our communities. You claim we started it which is wrong we had agreed to stop yet you were not happy with the agreement you had signed and reneged causing the turmoil to restart in 1963. You have to get things in perspective, you tend to just pick up pieces where you want to manipulate the whole issue, wwe had the golden opportunity to creat Cypriots we messed up big time so we are not all paying the price. Whether we really want to change anything today is down to us and its obvious we do not.

You didn't retaliate. You started the inter-communal conflict. Big difference. Read Birs report and you will see the victim count for both sides with sources given.

The numbers are not and indiciation of who started things for me 1960 was the turning point its obvious you were still out to get vegence but we were not,we retaliated to your greed to unite Cyprus to Greece by removing the only obstacle left in your was which was the TCs.

There was no bloody conflict after 1968 and until 1974 that Turkey invaded Cyprus. Thats a fact VP. You were not participating in RoC because you choose to remove yourselves and fight for partition instead. I don't deny that we also have a share of blame for the bad relations of that time, but you should not deny your share of blame either.

Conflict comes in many shapes and forms and the TCs were still in conflict with a dominating and discriminating GC community, who were doing everything within their power to get the TCs out of running the "RoC" (supreme court judgements you didnt adhere to) and keep us out by trying to force the Aktritas plan upon ıs before we coudl take our seats in parliament.

Makarios did not invite any invasion. The Turkish troops started to kill innocent people, bombing our cities and villages, and raping under age girls. Makarios had asked the UN to bring legality back to Cyprus, not from Turkey to start massacres and ethnic cleanings.

makarois made a plea at the UN for help when the coupists deposed and Turkey moved in to resolve a long outstnding conflict which had left TCs confined to certain areas and not able to effectively contribute to the running to the country.

The Turkish Army forces tried to land at the beaches in Kyrenia but came under heavy armed fire from the mountains where preparation had been going on for 11 years byy GCs, the first Turkish officer able to get on land and inflitrate GC forces was captured and literally torn to shreds and displayed for the Turks to see, at this point the Turkish army let all hell lose and thats why you suffered such veroicty, you shoudl have handed out roses instead of hand grenades and Im certain you woudl all still be living in your homes. Your eagerness to beat the Turks took you down the wrong path where you were beaten and had to make a run for it, the rest was full scale war against people who declared themselves to the enemy of the Turkish Army.

The facts and the truth is just one VP. I see both sides of the story and I do not deny the share of responsibility of our side during the inter communal conflict. On the other hand you are tyring to present yourselves as the innocent victims who now deserve to be rewarded on our loss, and you know very well you are not.

I do not deny we to made mistakes but never forget we were the smaller population and all our hopes we on Turkey helping us out in a time of crisis, do you remember the taunting songs on the GC radios "Im waiting but you are not arriving" we were the weaker community faced against a prsopering GC community who had hijacked the "RoC" using for all its worth to get ahead and eradicated TCs either by encouragement to go abroad or surrender into demands like Akritas or even face death at the hand of people like Makarios, Samson and Grivas.

VP, the intercommunal conflict started in 1958, not in 1963, and you started it. You don't seem like the innocent small minority being attacked do you? You had the whole of Turkey and UK to back you up against small Cyprus and you know this very well. Cypriots never asked for anything more than be free from Turks, British and foreign rulers and be allowed to democratically decide the destiny of their own island. You call this greed? Wat is greed is the demand of your minority to have unfair and undemocratic gains on or loss and collaborating with Turks and British in order to force this on us.

The Turkish troops made a full scale invasion in order to occupy our country. Maybe you could deny this on 20th of July of 1974, but still trying to deny what is that obvious today is ridiculous. It was clear from the very first moment what the intention of the Turkish troops was since the started to bomb our cities and villages and killing civilians.

You lying twat, your greed was ENOSIS and you started the war for your greed. You started to kill us TCs for your greed because we TCs didn't want ENOSIS.

The first killing of the attempted genocide war on us TCs that you started in 1963 was less than 2 miles away from my home. Three cars full of Turkish Cypriots returning from a day at the seaside was stopped by armed Greek/GC murderers and everyone in those cars were murdered in cold blood by the murdering Greek/GC bastards just because they did not have any ID on them. NO ONE CARRIED ANY ID IN CYPRUS IN THOSE DAYS, they were killed to scare the rest of us TCs and to surrender to your insane and greedy demands for ENOSIS.

You Geeks/GCs are such liars that you even stole a photo of mass graves full of murdered TCs by the murdering Greeks/GCs and sent it around the world claiming the dead in the mass grave were GCs but your lies didn't last and the truth came out in the end just like all the other lies you told.

If the world hadn't realised what liars yiu GCs/Greeks are they would have given you your ENOSIS but they are fed up and are making you suffer slowly for all the lies you told, especially the EU.

Tough shite pal, you didn't get your ENOSIS and you never will. Your greed caused the island to be partitioned and it is still your greed that will make certain it will stay partitioned.

Can't wait for the South Greek Cyprus elections, TPapadope wins and the partition is sealed for ever.

[Pumpy]

Piratis has a point, but this is then blown to smithereens by his stubbirn greek pride, when he denies the fact that, if it weren't for the British, the Turks would have taken the whole lot!

But we can't be having that said, now can we?!

Every new ruler came to Cyprus to enslave Cypriots and exploit Cyprus. Non of them came in order to "save us from the previous bad ruler".

Back then the Cypriots where very happy that British took over from the Turks. They hoped that British would give to Cypriots their self-determination and freedom. Unfortunately this is not what happened.

Rubbish

The British rulers, whilst holding Cyprus for self interest of course, did not abandon Cyprus to her fate come the invasion. The British were unable to stop the deal between Henry Kissinger on behalf of the USA and Turkey, because Britain was not powerful enough to.

All it could do was apply enough pressure to stop the Turks advancing all the way towards British sovereign bases, hence the green line being where it is. This has worked in your favour, Piratis, as otherwise, the greedy Turkish invader would have gobbled the lot.

This does not prevent me from agreeing with Eric, in part, because Enosis was a disastrous policy, without which Turkey would not have had the excuse to callously invade.

You Greeks (us Greeks?) made a rod for our own backs. This is what comes with dabbling in dangerous extremist politics, when there are big boys out there ready to fight for the spoils.

[Piratis]

Pumpy, I assumed that what you said about "if it weren't for the British, the Turks would have taken the whole lot", you where referring to the time that British took Cyprus from the Ottomans back in the 19th century.

If you are referring to 1974 then what you say has nothing to do with reality. Partition was a plan invented by the British and proposed to the Turks in order to apply their usual divide and rule practices. The Americans came into play much later. Partition had already been agreed between Turks and British way before Kissinger became involved. Watch this video:

[Pumpy]

Piratis...the attitudes of the ruling elite in Britain in the 50s was vastly different to that of the 70s. Things changed alot and it wasn't so much about divide and rule, as it was about Britain being a very weak and economically bowed country, stripped of her empire and international clout. Hence why Thatcher proved so successful in the 80s. You need to educate yourself on British political history outside of the narrow lense supplied by the Cyprus-centric.

By the 70s, we had no say, and it was America that called the shots. Remember, in the Cold War, the main consideration was how things played with the USSR and her allies and the US and her allies. Do you seriously think England was able to act and call the shots unilaterally? You provide us Brits with far too much kudos!

No, if you read more widely, you'll come to understand that Britain did her best by Cyprus in pressing times, and the UK bases were a blatant impediment to overall takeover.

Please understand this basic fact, it will help you greatly in seeing everything clearly and might lend itself towards the end of making you less ill-informed.

[denizaksulu]

And what solution do you propose umit? To ethnically cleanse Greek Cypriots so TCs can live separately? If thats the kind of "solution" you propose, here is a similar one: To ethnically cleanse the TCs from Cyprus, send them to Turkey, and this way we will not only be separate, but we will also be separate by a sea, so it should be even better. What do you think? Or separation of the two communities is OK only when it is about TCs gaining land on our loss and no the other way around?

You already tried to genocide us TCs and that's why the island is divided.

You lost lands while trying to steal ours illegally.

Your people got killed while you tried to genocide us TCs.

The only way to stop your ENOSIS dream was to partition the island.

The only reason why we TCs are now not Greek Muslims is because we put an end to your ENOSIS dream.

What I can tell you from our side is that we will never give up our homeland and we will continue fighting for it. So your options are: 1) Continue the war against us - which will never end since we will never capitulate.

That is not for you to end or carry on, the war ended in 1974 and there has been no more killings/atrocities.

or 2) Accept legality and try to create a peaceful country where the human rights of everybody are respected.

Where was the "legality" when you Greeks AND Greek Cypriots tried your best to genocide us TCs and steal our lands? Oh I forgot, we TCs have no rights because of what the Ottoman did to you poor GCs some 500 years ago, right?

Listen pal, we have another option, partition and whether you like it or not
the island will stay partitioned unless you give up on your "Cyprus is Greek" shite and stop trying to turn us TCs into second class minority with no rights to have a say in our own country and our future.

One thing you can be sure of, we will not capitulate either so you can wait till next millennium and hope for a "power shift" in your favour.

Here we go again with your lies. Who do you think you can convince with all those lies Eric? Uneducated retarts who have no clue of the Cyprus History?

The reason I am telling you about what happened in 1570 is because then was the only known genocide in the history of Cyprus. The Turks then killed 20.000 people within days, which was the 10% of the population of Cyprus.

In recent times the biggest slaughtering was done again by Turkey in 1974 when they killed some 1000s of Cypriots. And then you come to call a conflict where a few 100s of GCs and a few 100s of TCs died as "genocide".

If there was a genocide during that time then the population of TCs would have decreased. Not only it did not decrease, but it increased both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of the total population. So cut the lies.

Here is a quote from a Council of Europe report:

According to the censuses which took place in Cyprus before the factual partition of the island, the Greek Cypriot community amounted to 447,901 (78,2%) in 1960, and to 498,511 (78,9%) in 1973. The Turkish Cypriot community numbered 103,822 (18,1%) people in 1960, and 116 000 (18,4%) in 1973. The total population of Cyprus was 572,707 in 1960 and 631,778 in 1973 (see Appendix 3, Table 1). An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

So when did the "genocide" you talk about happen? In your dream?

You lost lands while trying to steal ours illegally.

Your people got killed while you tried to genocide us TCs.

Some Historical facts for you Eric:

1) The TCs are the ones who started killing GCs and created the first intercommunal conflict.

2) In that conflict both sides lost a few 100s of people.

3) That conflict was over by 1968. It had nothing to do with the invasion of 1974.

4) The killings between Turks and Cypriots in 1974 where again started by the Turks, and in that war GCs lost 1000s while TCs just a couple of 100s.

That is not for you to end or carry on, the war ended in 1974 and there has been no more killings/atrocities.

The war will be over when our island is liberated. What we have now is a cease fire. If you think that the war can end by 100s of thousands of people being ethnically cleansed then your dream will come true, and TCs and GCs will be separated, but not in the way you hope for.

Piratis just for you I come out of retirement:

Doros writes that during the first feudal era under the Lusignans, and then under the
Venetians: “It appears that the Barons were only denied the ‘legal’ right to wound arbitrarily
their serf and slaves, or impose the death penalty upon them. But they could and they
did treat them as chattels; they could punish them, sell them or exchange them for animals,
falcons, dogs or horses (this, however, was abolished by Venice in 1493 which decreed
that a slave could only be exchanged for another human salve) and work them to
exhaustion.”120 The famed wealth of the Latin epoch brought little solace to the common
inhabitants of the island. As Braudel puts it: “The wealth of the island under Venetian rule
had been the vineyards, the cotton plantations, & the fields of sugarcane. But whose
wealth? It had belonged to a Venetian & Genoese aristocracy … certainly not to the natives
of the island, Orthodox Greeks.”121 As Kyprianos, the Archimandrite of the Orthodox
Church of Cyprus was to grant several centuries later, under the Venetians the Orthodox
peasants were, “slaves of the chiefs and upper classes.” In his words, they, therefore,
“never ceased to help the Turks, for they hoped under their yoke to find freedom and
rest.”122 Braudel concurs, stating that, “at the time of invasion, the Venetians were abandoned
by the Greeks both in the countryside and the towns.”123 Michel also declares that,
“At the time of the Ottoman invasion, hatred of Venetian rule led many of the Cypriots to
sympathise with, and even perhaps aid the invaders as deliverers, the prospect of Turkish
rule appearing preferable to that of the rival Christian power.”124 Thus, though the Greek
Orthodox Cypriots may not have gained their freedom in the contemporary sense of the
word, with Ottoman rule an end was brought to the practice of serfdom under which a
great proportion of the peasants had hitherto been bound.125 Further, the Orthodox
Church, from its earliest days a central institution in the life of the native populace, was to
be restored to the position of prominence and power that had been wrested from it by the
Latins.126 It was a fact that many years later, notwithstanding the arrival of the age of
nationalism, some Greek Cypriots were still willing to recognise.
Though revisionism was by then rapidly entering the Greek Cypriot appraisal of Cyprus’
Ottoman past, Legislative Councillor Kyriakides was at the beginning of the twentieth
century, to the delight of his Turkish colleagues, to have openly declared:
120. DOROS 1955, 160.
121. BRAUDEL 1995, 156; Doros also emphasises this reality alluded to by Braudel concerning the Latin rule
of the Lusignans that preceded the Venetian era, arguing that too many historians of the Latin period of rule
in Cyprus, “have be[e]n so engrossed in its surface ebullitions and so dazzled by its glitter … that they have
failed to see the realities of the situation.” The “brilliance” of the era that these historians describe, Doros
says, “in such arresting superlatives, is the civilisation of a transplanted ruling class maintained by tribute –
a brilliant, colourful, unstable and sterile civilisation which disappeared, leaving nothing behind it except a
few, albeit imposing, monuments, and a number of words which have found their way into the Greek Cypriot
vocabulary.” DOROS 1955, 155–156.
122. PURCELL 1969, 345.
123. BRAUDEL 1995, 156.
124. MICHEL 1908, 753.
125. According to Jenness, about 85 percent of the population under the Venetians, “were either serfs (parici) or
free peasants (francomati), the latter being half as numerous again as the serfs.” [JENNESS 1962, 44].
Doros, on the other hand, suggests that the majority were, in fact serfs, at least until towards the end of
Venetian rule. DOROS 1955, 226.
126. For a short exposition on the position of the Orthodox Church during this era, see DOROS 1955, 178–185.
49
[T]he Greek population has nothing against the Moslems of Cyprus and the Turkish Empire
and that from a historical point of view Cyprus and Greece are grateful to the Turkish
Empire. When Franks and Catholicism threatened to strangle the Greek nation by twisting
round its neck like a snake, Providence has sent the Turks who have saved us. … without
the Turks the Greek nation would have been swallowed by the Franks and Catholicism.127
Four years later he again warmed the hearts of the Turks when during another debate
he stated that:
[B]ut for the appearance of the Turks in the East, Greece and the Greek religion would have
disappeared and had they come to Cyprus but fifty years later, the Honourable member
himself would not have been a Greek and the Greek Church in Cyprus would not have been
in the honoured position which it now held.128
If

Denis, the Ottomans where among the most brutal invadors of Cyprus. Non of the other rulers was good, and each time the Cypriots were hoping that the next ruler would be better than the previous one. Unfortunately the Turks were not.

I don't see anywhere in your quote mentioning these kinds of events:

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted.

or this:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821

As far as the ridiculous claims that "Turks saved us", I should remind you that Greek Cypriots survived for many centuries under many oppressive rulers. Also I should remind you that many Greek islands that where under the Italians they were given to newly formed Greek nation. That would have happened to Cyprus as well and we wouldn't have any problems today had the Turks not invaded us. So it is obvious that Cyprus would be much better off remaining under the Venetians.

Squirm, Piratis, squirm. The last quote is from a Greek Cypriot, Kyriakides. What you dont like is 'ridiculous'.