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Recent Cyprus History narrative....Who did What to Whom???

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Re: Recent Cyprus History narrative....Who did What to Whom?

Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:39 am

denizaksulu wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:Okey folks...I will try to rescue my posts from the other thread and continue on with the narrative..The deal is the same...If you want to add or substract anything from my writings please feel free. But make sure you argue from a position of informed opinion,not from subjective,emotional thought. I stand to be corrected on everything I say.
But you need to come up with proof if you are challenging my version of the events. Personal insults will not be taken seriously. In fact they will be proof that you are talking through your hats... :twisted:



Thank God/Allah or the Almighty. What took you so long. Yes, I got it, 'away from your PC' again. A very welcome back and your thread needed rescuing. I hope people will take note. :lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol: :lol:

They better...Or I will unleash my Secret Weapon on them... :wink:
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Re: Recent Cyprus History narrative....Who did What to Whom?

Postby Kikapu » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:34 am

Birkibrisli wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:Okey folks...I will try to rescue my posts from the other thread and continue on with the narrative..The deal is the same...If you want to add or substract anything from my writings please feel free. But make sure you argue from a position of informed opinion,not from subjective,emotional thought. I stand to be corrected on everything I say.
But you need to come up with proof if you are challenging my version of the events. Personal insults will not be taken seriously. In fact they will be proof that you are talking through your hats... :twisted:



Thank God/Allah or the Almighty. What took you so long. Yes, I got it, 'away from your PC' again. A very welcome back and your thread needed rescuing. I hope people will take note. :lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol: :lol:

They better...Or I will unleash my Secret Weapon on them... :wink:


Welcome back Bir. I promise not to respond to anything that is not related to the subject you have set up and urge others to do the same.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:02 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:This island was home mainly to two ethnically distinct communities.
The largest one was called Greek Cypriots (82%) and the smaller one Turkish Cypriots(18%). These figures were approximations as there were other Cypriots of other backgrounds like Armenian,Jewish,Maronite,and Latin who called Cyprus home too...But it was the former two communities who played the main roles in what came to be known as the Cyprus Problem. So we will concentrate on them for the purpose of this exercise...

It is generally considered that the Greeks came to Cyprus approximately 2000 years before Christ.First it was mainly Achaean-Mycenaean Greeks,then Greeks from other cities arrived over time to complete the Greek colonisation of Cyprus... The TCs were mainly the descendants of the Ottoman forces which occupied Cyprus from 1571 to 1878. Many Venetians and some Greeks concerted to Islam over this time (mainly to avoid heavy taxes),and there were enough intermarriages to result in a Unique Cypriot gene pool by the end of the 20th Century...


In 1878 Cyprus fell into British hands. "In 1878 at the time of the Congress of Berlin, Turkey, retaining nominal sovereignty, gave the island over to British administration as an assembly base for the rapid deployment force which Britain was supposed to have at the ready to deter further Russian penetration of the Ottoman Empire" ...So says the Cyprus Conflict website...

It also says this :"when the first British High Commissioner, Sir Garnet Wolseley, arrived at the Cypriot port of Larnaca, he was greeted by Kiprianos, Bishop of Kition, with the message: 'We accept the change of Government inasmuch as we trust that Great Britain will help Cyprus, as it did the Ionian islands, to be united with Mother Greece, with which it is nationally connected.' Every subsequent High Commissioner became accustomed to hearing the petition for enosis on ceremonial occasions. In 1912 the Greek Cypriot members of the Legislative Council resigned en bloc to campaign for this purpose. For a fleeting moment in 1915 Britain was willing to fulfill these hopes in return for a quick entry of Greece into the war; the offer was withdrawn when Greece declined."


So far so good?

Lets jump-cut to 1954...We are at the UN and Greece has just applied for the recognition of the rights of GCs to self-determination, allowing for Enosis to happen...
Alarmed by this the TCs sent a committee to Ankara to meet with Adnan Menderes,PM..The delegation is led by Mr Faiz kaymak, the Head of Federation of Turkish Cypriot Associations,and included two lawyers,Ahmet Mithat Berberoglu and Ahmet Zaim..

On the 15 September 1954 the delegation meet the Turkish PM at Florya palace...FAiz kaymak himself describes the talks in his 1968 book "How Did TCs find themselves in this Situation" :

" We talked for one-and -half hours about the political situation in Cyprus,the fears of the TCs,and Turkey's opinion on the matter...At one point The Prime Minister took a sheet of paper out of his pocket and handed it to me. 'here...read this...it's from the US...You have nothing to fear,there will be NO ENOSIS...Greece might be making demands at the UN,but the US has promised me,THERE WILL BE NO ENOSIS'...

"The next day we met with Turkish President,Celal Bayar...He had this advice for us -' You must demand that the British rule continues in Cyprus... You have to support the British or they are headed for a fall '...

In a previous meeting with the Turkish Foreign Minister,Fuat Koprulu,the delegation got a message which was most disturbing : " It is Turkey's principle not to interfere in other nations' internal affairs...Since Cyprus is a British colony we have no policy or claim on her..."

The TC delegation was dismayed. They were leaving for England the next day,and they decided to take direct action. They visited the influential editor of the Hurriyet Newspaper,Sedat Semavi,and told him about Fuat Koprulu's statement...The next day the delegations fears and dilemma were front page news all over Turkey...



A too big jump. I would have mentioned Lausanne (Lozan), where Turkey washed its hands of Cyprus.


You got the right idea ,Deniz yegen. Jump in and fill the gaps as you see fit...We CAN make this a team effort... :)
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Re: Recent Cyprus History narrative....Who did What to Whom?

Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:06 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:Okey folks...I will try to rescue my posts from the other thread and continue on with the narrative..The deal is the same...If you want to add or substract anything from my writings please feel free. But make sure you argue from a position of informed opinion,not from subjective,emotional thought. I stand to be corrected on everything I say.
But you need to come up with proof if you are challenging my version of the events. Personal insults will not be taken seriously. In fact they will be proof that you are talking through your hats... :twisted:



Thank God/Allah or the Almighty. What took you so long. Yes, I got it, 'away from your PC' again. A very welcome back and your thread needed rescuing. I hope people will take note. :lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol: :lol:

They better...Or I will unleash my Secret Weapon on them... :wink:


Welcome back Bir. I promise not to respond to anything that is not related to the subject you have set up and urge others to do the same.


Thanks, Kikapu... :wink:
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Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:50 pm

Having made the World stop and take notice of the TCs,the second stage of the operation could now begin. The aim now was to prove that the two communities could not possibly live peacefully together.

The date chosen for action was Saturday,7 June,1958. In events reminicent of those in Istanbul during 6-7 September,1955,a bomb was thrown from a passing car. The target was the Turkish Information office,in Kyrenia Rd, Nicosia...It was around 10 pm,and people were out and about in the balmy Nicosia summer night. Rumours fast spread that the Turkish quarter of Nicosia was under GC attack. People run out of their homes and open-air cinemas,and urged on by agent provocateurs,hundreds of TCs poured into the GC business sector of Nicosia setting shops on fire and destroying whatever they came across.When the frenzied attack came to an end two innocent GCs lay dead for no other reason than being at the wrong place at the wrong time...The following day in Larnaca 2 more GCs lost their lives in similar unprovoked attacks. Roudy protest meetings were held in Limassol,but without any loss of life.

This was the beginning of weeks of inter ethnic attacks and counter attacks,where Grivas would finally allow his EOKA fighters to turn their guns on TCs,resulting in 100s of innocent deaths from both sides. What shocked people most was the degree of violence and horror associated with most of the deaths.

It became known later that Sir Hugh had warned the Turkish Foreign Ministry and Rauf Denktash himself,against the possibility of such ethnic violence started primarily by the TCs. He requested that measures be taken to stop any such action. Not only did Denktash do nothing to prevent
the violence,he later tried to justify it. Let's hear it from the master manipulator himself : " The bombing incident should be separated from the TC action which followed. Our reaction was normal. In the circumstances ,our youth was only doing their duty. You could argue they might have gone too far. But it wasn't the TCs who were shedding blood,ignoring people's right to life and property during the preceding 4 years. It was the GCs...Those who created the atmosphere of hate and mistrust,those who tried to obtain political gains by violent action,should have expected the TC to behave in a similar manner..." (Milliyet Newspaper,22 December,1966)...

Denktash never admitted that the bomb on the 7 June,1958 was thrown by the TCs. But reliable TC sources have no doubt the bomb was thrown by one of Denktash's close associates for the reason of "increasing political tension amongst the TCs"...(Ahmet An,Kibris'ta Firtinali Yillar,1996,p.117)
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Postby umit07 » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:14 pm

Bir

Their is one thing that I do not agree with I don't their has been a lot of intercomunal marriages but anyway. Even if we got along fine in the past is that supposed to mean that we will in the future? Remember that all this stuff has been going on for for over 50 years and even if there was a settlement in Cyprus and everything went on fine another 50 years more would have to pass to get everyone just feeling Cypriot. Look at the situation we are in now GC's always have a flag of Greece beside the flag of ROC they use the GREEK national anthem and yet again they say they are a REPUBLIC. Same on this side of the green line. To be honest I don't see myself of just being Cypriot ( How can I in this situation?) I see myself as a Turkish Cypriot. "Köprünün altından çok sular geçti" , "A lot of water has passed under the bridge". Know one can expect things to change suddenly. The question is do you think it can change and how? I for one feel it is very hard and time only makes it worse.
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Postby Piratis » Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:56 pm

And what solution do you propose umit? To ethnically cleanse Greek Cypriots so TCs can live separately? If thats the kind of "solution" you propose, here is a similar one: To ethnically cleanse the TCs from Cyprus, send them to Turkey, and this way we will not only be separate, but we will also be separate by a sea, so it should be even better. What do you think? Or separation of the two communities is OK only when it is about TCs gaining land on our loss and no the other way around?

What I can tell you from our side is that we will never give up our homeland and we will continue fighting for it. So your options are: 1) Continue the war against us - which will never end since we will never capitulate. or 2) Accept legality and try to create a peaceful country where the human rights of everybody are respected.
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Postby MR-from-NG » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:06 pm

And what solution do you propose umit? To ethnically cleanse Greek Cypriots so TCs can live separately? If thats the kind of "solution" you propose, here is a similar one: To ethnically cleanse the TCs from Cyprus, send them to Turkey, and this way we will not only be separate, but we will also be separate by a sea, so it should be even better. What do you think? Or separation of the two communities is OK only when it is about TCs gaining land on our loss and no the other way around?

What I can tell you from our side is that we will never give up our homeland and we will continue fighting for it. So your options are: 1) Continue the war against us - which will never end since we will never capitulate. or 2) Accept legality and try to create a peaceful country where the human rights of everybody are respected.

Remember, the balance of power will change in the next millennium, that's when we will attack. When we do not only will we recapture Kyrenia, Famagusta and the north in its entirety but we will also recapture Istanbul and rename it Constantinople. We will be victorious. Its only a matter of time :cry: :cry: :cry: .
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Postby Piratis » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:14 pm

Mr-From-NG do you consider yourselves as the "victorious" ones? Did you look in the mirror lately my friend?

If you thought that you "won the war" and therefore you can impose on us whatever you feel like you should think again.
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Postby MR-from-NG » Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:20 pm

Piratis wrote:Mr-From-NG do you consider yourselves as the "victorious" ones? Did you look in the mirror lately my friend?

If you thought that you "won the war" and therefore you can impose on us whatever you feel like you should think again.


Not at all, have never claimed to be victorious. You however, can only achieve what you said to Umit by declaring an all out war on Turkey and coming out of the war victorious. Isn't that so?
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