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Reality check; after all it is 2008

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Kifeas » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:20 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
observer wrote:I thought that I'd made it clear that the intervention was legal. The Athens Supreme Court, not the most pro-Turkish organisation I can think of, support me:
“….On 15th July 1974, General Yoannidis, together with General Yorgitsis, the Commander of the Greek Regriment in Cyprus and General Yanakomidis organized a coup d’etat against Makarios with other 102 Greek officers. The President’s Palace in Nicosia was kept under fire by heavy weapons but President Makarios survived this attack through a miracle. After Greek officers violated the Cyprus Constitution, Nikos Samson was appointed as the new president of Cyprus Republic. Turkey intervened in Cyprus using its legal right, on 20th July 1974.

Greek Supreme Court of Appeals 21 March 1979.


This refers to an instant in time of 20th of July. There from the so called intervention which lasted for over a month, turned out to be clearly an invasion and occupation, and there are many international bodies confirming it to be so.


Sooner or later, Mama Turka will be dragged yelling and kicking to the ICJ of The Hague, to prove the legality of its 1974 invasion and ever since occupation of 36% of Cyprus, as a pre-condition to the continuation of its EU accession process! There you will see pathetic creatures like Observer turning yellow like a lemon, for they know dumb well the invasion was in violation of the UN Charter and thus illegal by international law!

And for those cucumbers that do not know the facts, the UN Charter -by virtue of its 103rd article, sets itself as the supreme international treaty that rules over everything else, and nullifies all the provisions of any other international agreement or treaty (such as the pathetic 1960 "treaty of guarantee") that contradict with the provisions and terms of the UN Charter!


For those pathetic vegetables like Observer, this is what article 103 says:
"In the event of a conflict between the obligations of the Members of the United Nations under the present Charter and their obligations under any other international agreement, their obligations under the present Charter shall prevail."
http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/

According to the UN Charter, Turkey had an obligation to refrain from intervening unilaterally, and to have first allowed the issue of Cyprus -as it emerged after the CIA backed Junta's coup against Makarios, to be discussed in the UN SC (as Makarios had registered it on the 19th of July 1974;) so that a resolution would have been obtained calling for the end of Greek junta's intervention in Cyprus and the return back to his office of the elected president of the country! Turkey rushed quickly to cease the opportunity to undercut the UN's initiative, because what it cared was not the establishment of the constitutional order in Cyprus, as it claimed to have done, but the crapping and occupation of another UN member state's territory! All this was made contrary and against the provisions of the UN Charter, and for this no pathetic Greek supreme court ruling will save the day for her, when the issue will one day reach the International Court of Justice! The Turkish invasion and the occupation will firmly and squarely found to be illegal, and the court will order Turkey to withdraw from Cyprus and pay for all the damage it had caused to the Cypriot people, both GCs and TCs alike! The Day of Judgment is nearing for all of mama Turka’s violations of international law and human rights in Cyprus!
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:37 pm

What do you think would have happened to the TC population while the UN Security Council were thinking about assembling?
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Postby Kifeas » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:59 pm

Viewpoint wrote:What do you think would have happened to the TC population while the UN Security Council were thinking about assembling?


Viewpoint, when someone grabs something that he knows it doesn't belong to him, the natural thing to do is to invent one million excuses to justify his actions and to eventually get away with it! This is precisely what you and your "motherland" do since 1974, and for this I am not surprised at all! Every thief and rapist will claim that he was provoked by the victim, etc, etc! It is only natural for thieves, rapists and usurpers to act in this ways! What else would they do, say sorry and ask for forgiveness?

The UN SC was not thinking about assembling! It had already assembled and started discussing the issue since the evening of the 19th of July 1974; and until the time Turkey decided to invade, not a single TC nose had been broken neither a single TC hair had been touched by any one GC in Cyprus! The rest are just dissembled thoughts and talking!
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:28 pm

Kifeas wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:What do you think would have happened to the TC population while the UN Security Council were thinking about assembling?


Viewpoint, when someone grabs something that he knows it doesn't belong to him, the natural thing to do is to invent one million excuses to justify his actions and to eventually get away with it! This is precisely what you and your "motherland" do since 1974, and for this I am not surprised at all! Every thief and rapist will claim that he was provoked by the victim, etc, etc! It is only natural for thieves, rapists and usurpers to act in this ways! What else would they do, say sorry and ask for forgiveness?

The UN SC was not thinking about assembling! It had already assembled and started discussing the issue since the evening of the 19th of July 1974; and until the time Turkey decided to invade, not a single TC nose had been broken neither a single TC hair had been touched by any one GC in Cyprus! The rest are just dissembled thoughts and talking!


Well excuse me for fearing for my life and those in my community, the times were expolsive and the TCs had been waiting for 11 years for Turkey to arrive to save them from the shit they were in. You seem to forget at that point you were the rapist and we were waiting to be raped but what happened the table got turned and you got raped. The SC need weeks in facts months to act, remember Bosnia? there was just not enough time and to much red tape, in that short when faced with a situation where you are fearing for your life you will do anything to save yourself. If only GCs had not wanted enosis all these problems would not have come about and we could have been all become Cypriots living in a united island.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:09 pm

ONE WEEK after the coup Sampson fell and Klerides took over. Until then no TC was hurt.
Why don't you tell us what would have happened to the TCs under Klerides. Klerides was always loving the Tcs in fact he is the one who saved Denktashes life.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:27 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:ONE WEEK after the coup Sampson fell and Klerides took over. Until then no TC was hurt.
Why don't you tell us what would have happened to the TCs under Klerides. Klerides was always loving the Tcs in fact he is the one who saved Denktashes life.


Sampson:"Had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed 'enosis,'I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus." Eleftherotipia, Feb. 26,1981
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Postby observer » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:19 am

Pyrpolizer
This (The decision by the Athens Supreme Court) refers to an instant in time of 20th of July. There from the so called intervention which lasted for over a month, turned out to be clearly an invasion and occupation, and there are many international bodies confirming it to be so.

I was responding to the claim that the invasion/intervention was illegal, not about subsequent events. The intervention was legal

Kifeas
For those pathetic vegetables like Observer, this is what article 103 says:
"In the event of a conflict between the obligations of the Members of the United Nations under the present Charter and their obligations under any other international agreement, their obligations under the present Charter shall prevail."


I always think that I am getting somewhere when people start using insults. It means that they are running out of arguments.

The UN Charter was signed in 1945. 15 years later the Treaty of Guarantee was signed by Greece, Turkey, UK and Cyprus. All would have used experienced international lawyers to draw up Treaty. It was lodged at the UN, who I guess have lawyers of their own, who would have looked at it (it was in all the newspapers). All accepted it as legal.

After the event the Greek Supreme Court and the British Parliament accepted it as legal. That the Turkish courts and the TRNC courts would accept it as legal is a given.

Against all these we have the voice of Kifeas. A brave stand, but not a realistic one.
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Postby Kifeas » Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:23 pm

observer wrote:Pyrpolizer
This (The decision by the Athens Supreme Court) refers to an instant in time of 20th of July. There from the so called intervention which lasted for over a month, turned out to be clearly an invasion and occupation, and there are many international bodies confirming it to be so.

I was responding to the claim that the invasion/intervention was illegal, not about subsequent events. The intervention was legal

Kifeas
For those pathetic vegetables like Observer, this is what article 103 says:
"In the event of a conflict between the obligations of the Members of the United Nations under the present Charter and their obligations under any other international agreement, their obligations under the present Charter shall prevail."


I always think that I am getting somewhere when people start using insults. It means that they are running out of arguments.

The UN Charter was signed in 1945. 15 years later the Treaty of Guarantee was signed by Greece, Turkey, UK and Cyprus. All would have used experienced international lawyers to draw up Treaty. It was lodged at the UN, who I guess have lawyers of their own, who would have looked at it (it was in all the newspapers). All accepted it as legal.

After the event the Greek Supreme Court and the British Parliament accepted it as legal. That the Turkish courts and the TRNC courts would accept it as legal is a given.

Against all these we have the voice of Kifeas. A brave stand, but not a realistic one.

Observer, if it was legal, Mama Turka wouldn't have had a problem accepting the invitation of the RoC to have the International Court of Justice (ICJ,) the only competent international court for these matters, examine the issue!

What a pathetical national court such as that of Greece or a national political assembly such as that of the UK may have claimed, is totally irrelevant! It is not their competency to rule over international disputes! Only the UN SC and the UN general assembly may issue resolutions, and only the ICJ can rule over the legality of such issues! Instead of talking nonsense in the forums, just explain to us why your prostitute "motherland" refuses to come to the court and prove her case!
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Postby Kikapu » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:02 pm

Observer,

If you are going to accept that the actions of Turkey was legal in 1974 despite Kifeas's explanation on the USC, to intervene the coup against the Cyprus Government, then you will also have to accept the fact, that Turkey also violated every other articles she had signed to be the Guarantor. I do not have a problem Turkey intervening to have come and kicked Samson out, and I'm sure majority of the GC's would not have mined either, since they were no longer interested in Enosis with Greece, but how can you then justify the invasion that followed and ethnic cleansing and occupying part of Cyprus. In one way I can see Turkey doing some good to live up to her responsibilities as a Guarantor, but then she violated every thing else she signed as a Guarantor.

Observer wrote:The Turkish invasion was most certainly legal.

Article 2 of the Treaty of Guarantee says
Greece the United Kingdom and Turkey, taking note of the undertakings by the Republic of Cyprus embodied in Article 1, recognize and guarantee the independence, territorial integrity and security of the Republic of Cyprus, and also the provisions of the basic articles of its Constitution. They likewise undertake to prohibit, as far as lies within their power, all activity having the object of promoting directly or indirectly either the union of the Republic of Cyprus with any other State,
or the partition of the Island.

Greece had breached the provisions, as had the GCs.

The Treaty goes on to say:
In the event of any breach of the provisions of the present Treaty, Greece, the United Kingdom, and Turkey undertake to consult together, with a view to making representations, or taking the necessary steps to ensure observance of those provisions. In so far as common or concerted action may prove impossible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim of re-establishing the state of affairs established by the present Treaty.
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Postby Kikapu » Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:17 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:ONE WEEK after the coup Sampson fell and Klerides took over. Until then no TC was hurt.
Why don't you tell us what would have happened to the TCs under Klerides. Klerides was always loving the Tcs in fact he is the one who saved Denktashes life.


Sampson:"Had Turkey not intervened I would not only have proclaimed 'enosis,'I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus." Eleftherotipia, Feb. 26,1981


What else did you expect Sampson to say VP. That was his last departing "shot" 7 years after the fact lobbed at the Cypriots to continue his Enosis dream by keeping us apart. It was his revenge for the GC's for not supporting his long awaited Enosis dream. No body else wants to continue with his Enosis dream, except of course, the Partitionist such as yourself by keeping Samson's dream alive. I would say, that Samson is more admired by you than most GC's. Why would you want to quote him otherwise, other than carry on with his Enosis Dream with your hateful remarks in most of your posts, so that you can carry on with your Taksim Dream.
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