Cyprus-Forum.com

[paaul12]

Just to help you guys out, (GS) with the propaganda you are forced to swallow daily.

You should be aware that the ECHR is about to accept the Property Commission ruling that a GC can exchange land in the north with land in the south, despite your 'property guardian' thinking wrongly that it is only them who can determine the fate of TC land in the south.

So good news for the Property Commission, bring on the other 1400 cases will be what the ECHR will now say, so if you have any outstanding land issues you should contact the Property Commission, I am sure they would be glad to hear from you.

As I have been saying 2008 is going to be a good year for the TRNC. It looks like the party will be starting earlier than even I had expected.

Shall we arrange a party for all the members to attend to celebrate this monumental decision?



POLITIS

- Turkey is called to present a property exchange mechanism to the European Court of Human Rights by Jan.14, in connection with pending case of a Greek Cypriot refugee seeking compensation for land in northern Cyprus.

SIMERINI

- European Court of Human Rights rejects intervention of government which attempted to avert a friendly settlement between a Greek Cypriot refugee and Turkey over property he owns in north Cyprus.

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssIndu ... 6120080108

[Jerry]

If I recall the 1400 outstanding cases are applications for compensation, restitution or exchange the latter being only one of three options. The so called commission is a rubbish organisation, it took them months to respond to my original request for details of scheme the so I wrote to the ECHR and told them what a poorly run setup it was. The ECHR very promptly sent me the paperwork necessary to make a claim through them. My own view is that GCs should apply to the commission and see what sort of response they get, let's see how they would cope with a few thousand applications in a short space of time. Apparently the TRNC can't even collect its own taxes, God knows how they will manage this.

[paaul12]

Jeryy wrote:

God knows how they will manage this.

Its not “gods” decision, or to know how they will manage these applications, all that matters is that the ECHR rules that the Property Commission is an effective remedy, if the flood gates are opened, the applications will be processed in due course, I am sure that the ECHR would acknowledges the ramifications of such a move and understand the situation, you as usual just want to bad mouth the authorities in the TRNC, while at the same time ignore the gross incompetence of the authorities in the south, still id f that’s what floats your boat then go for it.

Is being an idiot like being high all the time, becauseTo generalize is to be an idiot.

[Jerry]

Jeryy wrote:

God knows how they will manage this.

Its not “gods” decision, or to know how they will manage these applications, all that matters is that the ECHR rules that the Property Commission is an effective remedy, if the flood gates are opened, the applications will be processed in due course, I am sure that the ECHR would acknowledges the ramifications of such a move and understand the situation, you as usual just want to bad mouth the authorities in the TRNC, while at the same time ignore the gross incompetence of the authorities in the south, still id f that’s what floats your boat then go for it.

Is being an idiot like being high all the time, becauseTo generalize is to be an idiot.

"God knows" is a mild expletive, not a request to the almighty for a decision. If the ECHR rules that the commission is an effective remedy and a GC gets a decision that he does not like he can then go to the Court. As for bad mouthing the TRNC, I simply report as I find. It took one phone call and an e-mail to their office in London to get the address of the commission in Nicosia. They then sent me (with a GC name) a request form to buy land in the north. I have had some dealings with Government authorities in the ROC over the years, most but not all, were satisfactory.

Not quite sure where the generalisation is and I've been called much worse than an idiot, you simply weaken your point by resorting to name calling.

[zan]

Jeryy wrote:

God knows how they will manage this.

Its not “gods” decision, or to know how they will manage these applications, all that matters is that the ECHR rules that the Property Commission is an effective remedy, if the flood gates are opened, the applications will be processed in due course, I am sure that the ECHR would acknowledges the ramifications of such a move and understand the situation, you as usual just want to bad mouth the authorities in the TRNC, while at the same time ignore the gross incompetence of the authorities in the south, still id f that’s what floats your boat then go for it.

Is being an idiot like being high all the time, becauseTo generalize is to be an idiot.

"God knows" is a mild expletive, not a request to the almighty for a decision. If the ECHR rules that the commission is an effective remedy and a GC gets a decision that he does not like he can then go to the Court. As for bad mouthing the TRNC, I simply report as I find. It took one phone call and an e-mail to their office in London to get the address of the commission in Nicosia. They then sent me (with a GC name) a request form to buy land in the north. I have had some dealings with Government authorities in the ROC over the years, most but not all, were satisfactory.

Not quite sure where the generalisation is and I've been called much worse than an idiot, you simply weaken your point by resorting to name calling.

It would be nice to know what you are expecting to get as well????

[CopperLine]

It will be interesting to see how the ruling - if it confirms the adequacy of the Property Commission process - might affect the broader political and diplomatic process of final settlement. The ECHR route to resolving property/land questions effectively 'privatises' the settlement process (that is to say private individuals, exercising their human rights, ultimately under the jursidiction of a human rights court) rather than a collective and political settlement between politicians and public officials. If the property commission process is deemed adequate, then however slowly - and I'm sure it will be a slow and tortuous process, even assuming no bad faith let alone incompetence - the rug may be pulled from under the feet of public diplomacy and negotiations for a comprehensive settlement.

For example, let us suppose the following : (i) ECHR says the property commission process is indeed adequate (ii) more and more people submit property claims, (iii) let us assume that full determination of individual claims takes no less than five years and that all major or prima facie claims are dealt with in ten years, including appeals. For what it is worth, I think that that is a rate of settlement much faster than anything on the diplomatic agenda at the moment.

One might end up in the bizarre position in which the property question is effectively settled by application of private means and human rights law, and over which the RoC cannot have any complaints (GCs exercising their human rights, TC authorities 'adequately' assessing those claims). Ther danger for nationalist RoC politicians of the success of private claims over property is that if ECHR judges the proerty commission process to be an adequate and effective remedy then RoC claims that TRNC authorities are incompetent, and/or instruments of nefarious Turkish interests, and/or vindictive begin to ring hollow.

Having said that, we're a long way from that position yet.

[Kifeas]

It will be interesting to see how the ruling - if it confirms the adequacy of the Property Commission process - might affect the broader political and diplomatic process of final settlement. The ECHR route to resolving property/land questions effectively 'privatises' the settlement process (that is to say private individuals, exercising their human rights, ultimately under the jursidiction of a human rights court) rather than a collective and political settlement between politicians and public officials. If the property commission process is deemed adequate, then however slowly - and I'm sure it will be a slow and tortuous process, even assuming no bad faith let alone incompetence - the rug may be pulled from under the feet of public diplomacy and negotiations for a comprehensive settlement.

For example, let us suppose the following : (i) ECHR says the property commission process is indeed adequate (ii) more and more people submit property claims, (iii) let us assume that full determination of individual claims takes no less than five years and that all major or prima facie claims are dealt with in ten years, including appeals. For what it is worth, I think that that is a rate of settlement much faster than anything on the diplomatic agenda at the moment.

One might end up in the bizarre position in which the property question is effectively settled by application of private means and human rights law, and over which the RoC cannot have any complaints (GCs exercising their human rights, TC authorities 'adequately' assessing those claims). Ther danger for nationalist RoC politicians of the success of private claims over property is that if ECHR judges the proerty commission process to be an adequate and effective remedy then RoC claims that TRNC authorities are incompetent, and/or instruments of nefarious Turkish interests, and/or vindictive begin to ring hollow.

Having said that, we're a long way from that position yet.

CopperLine, you are an ignorant that talks nonsense!

There is not a single line in any CoE or ECtHR reports or judgments in relation to this issue of the "property commission," making reference to any term or entity with the name "TRNC" or "TRNC authorities" or "TC authorities," etc! All references are made to Turkey, and only Turkey, and the so called property commission is regarded as one set up by TURKER, and nothing else! TC or TRNC authorities do not exist for the ECHR in relation to this issue!

Consequently, your entire post amounts to only a pile of rubbish!

[Nikitas]

There is an assumption in the posts above that the claims are solely based on the land area of the property in question and that an exchange with an equal area and of equal value in the south is all that is needed.

The claims also involve damages for deprivation of the enjoyment of and access to the property in question for thirty odd years. It is hard to see how the properties board of the TRNC will be able to deal with these claims, which in any case are not directed against the TRNC but against Turkey. Additionally, the ECHR regards Turkey as the defendant and not the TRNC and deems the properties board to be part of the remedial process offered by Turkey. It is therefore a step against the TRNCs quest for recognition to have its organs treated as Turkish and identified with Turkey.

The other factor that looms on the horizon is the total area that can be covered by TC land in the south. What happens when we arrive at a point when the TRNC has no more land available in the south to offer in exchange?

So far we have had individual claims. Now there is a claim being prepared by the Church of Cyprus, the first instituional claim for properties and there are rumours that the municipality of Famagusta is preparing a claim. It will be interesting to see how the ECHR will deal with such institutional claims. It is not easy to refer the Church to the board in the hope that land representing the equivalent of a centuries old church will be found among TC property in the south. The remedy in such cases can only be in rem for the actual properties becaue of their historic nature and will have to take into account the deprivation of religious freedom for the last thirty years.

The Church claim seems to contradict Copperline's point that the property issue can be privatised. It ties in with other human rights like those of establishment and movement and religious freedom and the ECHR cannot avoid them by reference to any internal mechanism of the TRNC.

It would be ironic for the ECHR to come the conclusion that the Church of Cyprus can own churches in Abyssinia and other places in Africa but cannot have access to its churches in Cyprus. So it will be an interesting case.

[Kifeas]

Just to help you guys out, (GS) with the propaganda you are forced to swallow daily.

You should be aware that the ECHR is about to accept the Property Commission ruling that a GC can exchange land in the north with land in the south, despite your 'property guardian' thinking wrongly that it is only them who can determine the fate of TC land in the south.

So good news for the Property Commission, bring on the other 1400 cases will be what the ECHR will now say, so if you have any outstanding land issues you should contact the Property Commission, I am sure they would be glad to hear from you.

As I have been saying 2008 is going to be a good year for the TRNC. It looks like the party will be starting earlier than even I had expected.

Shall we arrange a party for all the members to attend to celebrate this monumental decision?



POLITIS

- Turkey is called to present a property exchange mechanism to the European Court of Human Rights by Jan.14, in connection with pending case of a Greek Cypriot refugee seeking compensation for land in northern Cyprus.

SIMERINI

- European Court of Human Rights rejects intervention of government which attempted to avert a friendly settlement between a Greek Cypriot refugee and Turkey over property he owns in north Cyprus.

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssIndu ... 6120080108

Paaul, do you know this man?


He is your twin brother!

[DT.]

Just to help you guys out, (GS) with the propaganda you are forced to swallow daily.

You should be aware that the ECHR is about to accept the Property Commission ruling that a GC can exchange land in the north with land in the south, despite your 'property guardian' thinking wrongly that it is only them who can determine the fate of TC land in the south.

So good news for the Property Commission, bring on the other 1400 cases will be what the ECHR will now say, so if you have any outstanding land issues you should contact the Property Commission, I am sure they would be glad to hear from you.

As I have been saying 2008 is going to be a good year for the TRNC. It looks like the party will be starting earlier than even I had expected.

Shall we arrange a party for all the members to attend to celebrate this monumental decision?



POLITIS

- Turkey is called to present a property exchange mechanism to the European Court of Human Rights by Jan.14, in connection with pending case of a Greek Cypriot refugee seeking compensation for land in northern Cyprus.

SIMERINI

- European Court of Human Rights rejects intervention of government which attempted to avert a friendly settlement between a Greek Cypriot refugee and Turkey over property he owns in north Cyprus.

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssIndu ... 6120080108

Paaul, do you know this man?


He is your twin brother!

WE ARE RAISING THE TRNC FLAG IN BRUSSELS AS WE SPEAK!!