Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Isn't it all just so much simpler, ethically correct and justifiable, for the Bloody Turks to just go back to Turkey, and let the poor people they have ethnically cleansed from their homes so violently a few years ago, to return to their rightful abodes.

That would end the torture, the name calling, the blaming, the holding to ransom of TCs and GCs by Turkey etc.

. . . . and then everything will be hunky dory and the Lawyers can find something else to do.

Your feminine mind has made a very rare and welcome apparance Phoenix mou. Do you really think that it would be so simple as you are suggesting. The ECHR would be protecting the settlers who have established themselves in the North. I wish it were so simple.

Blatant attempt to find excuses ..... I would respect you more if you came out and admitted you do not want a solution other than what you already have

However, the settlers have no more rights than any other illegal immigrants to any country, and there are already established procedures for repatriating such drifters.

They are not an obstacle . . . . I re-iterate: the first and foremost path to resolving the Cyprus problem is complete withdrawal of Turkish troops.

Quite honetly my dear, I dont give a damn. Sorry wrong scenario. Actually I do care to be respected. As far as I am concerned we have no solution. So there is nothing I can admit to. So I will have to do without any respect from you. I would dearly like the settlers to be returned, but I doubt it.That is where I see a problem, they occupy whole villages of GC property. I see the problem, I am surprised you dont.

So you saying that illegal thieving bastards should be treated above the original owners of the land?...mashallah

I really can't see where you going with this.

The solution is for turkey to create villages in turkey and settle them back there...They belong to turkey...why should the owners of the land have to accomodate turkey's illegal colonization?

Where did you get that idea from Boomer? I clearly want them out. Vacating GC property is important for any settlement. I think you are still celebrating.

when there is a will there is always a way...try and apply that rather than saying I want them out but I see a problem...

Celebrations start next week fo a 10 day stay at the beach...till then business as usual

Sorry to barge in like this guys but I have a problem with this. I'd like to see the settlers go back too. However are we going to put everyone of them on the next boat and repatriate them or are we going to look at each case individually?

Those married to TCs. Those that have been here over 30 years and those born here. The vast majority has to go but surely some will have to stay.

Thats where I stated we would have the ECHR involved. They would be much more selective, and those as you describe as being settled with local spouses and Cyprus born children will have to be given options. Compensation and leave, leave to stay and whatever other options will be made available.

[MR-from-NG]

Isn't it all just so much simpler, ethically correct and justifiable, for the Bloody Turks to just go back to Turkey, and let the poor people they have ethnically cleansed from their homes so violently a few years ago, to return to their rightful abodes.

That would end the torture, the name calling, the blaming, the holding to ransom of TCs and GCs by Turkey etc.

. . . . and then everything will be hunky dory and the Lawyers can find something else to do.

Your feminine mind has made a very rare and welcome apparance Phoenix mou. Do you really think that it would be so simple as you are suggesting. The ECHR would be protecting the settlers who have established themselves in the North. I wish it were so simple.

Blatant attempt to find excuses ..... I would respect you more if you came out and admitted you do not want a solution other than what you already have

However, the settlers have no more rights than any other illegal immigrants to any country, and there are already established procedures for repatriating such drifters.

They are not an obstacle . . . . I re-iterate: the first and foremost path to resolving the Cyprus problem is complete withdrawal of Turkish troops.

Quite honetly my dear, I dont give a damn. Sorry wrong scenario. Actually I do care to be respected. As far as I am concerned we have no solution. So there is nothing I can admit to. So I will have to do without any respect from you. I would dearly like the settlers to be returned, but I doubt it.That is where I see a problem, they occupy whole villages of GC property. I see the problem, I am surprised you dont.

So you saying that illegal thieving bastards should be treated above the original owners of the land?...mashallah

I really can't see where you going with this.

The solution is for turkey to create villages in turkey and settle them back there...They belong to turkey...why should the owners of the land have to accomodate turkey's illegal colonization?

Where did you get that idea from Boomer? I clearly want them out. Vacating GC property is important for any settlement. I think you are still celebrating.

when there is a will there is always a way...try and apply that rather than saying I want them out but I see a problem...

Celebrations start next week fo a 10 day stay at the beach...till then business as usual

Sorry to barge in like this guys but I have a problem with this. I'd like to see the settlers go back too. However are we going to put everyone of them on the next boat and repatriate them or are we going to look at each case individually?

Those married to TCs. Those that have been here over 30 years and those born here. The vast majority has to go but surely some will have to stay.

why should any of them stay? Where would they continue to stay? On GC Land?

Those that qualify to stay will have to vacate the GCs property and rehoused. We need to do this in a humane way. You cant deny the fact they are also victims of circumstances. If we were to kick them off the island like IDI Amin we would be no better than him.

[boomerang]

Isn't it all just so much simpler, ethically correct and justifiable, for the Bloody Turks to just go back to Turkey, and let the poor people they have ethnically cleansed from their homes so violently a few years ago, to return to their rightful abodes.

That would end the torture, the name calling, the blaming, the holding to ransom of TCs and GCs by Turkey etc.

. . . . and then everything will be hunky dory and the Lawyers can find something else to do.

Your feminine mind has made a very rare and welcome apparance Phoenix mou. Do you really think that it would be so simple as you are suggesting. The ECHR would be protecting the settlers who have established themselves in the North. I wish it were so simple.

Blatant attempt to find excuses ..... I would respect you more if you came out and admitted you do not want a solution other than what you already have

However, the settlers have no more rights than any other illegal immigrants to any country, and there are already established procedures for repatriating such drifters.

They are not an obstacle . . . . I re-iterate: the first and foremost path to resolving the Cyprus problem is complete withdrawal of Turkish troops.

Quite honetly my dear, I dont give a damn. Sorry wrong scenario. Actually I do care to be respected. As far as I am concerned we have no solution. So there is nothing I can admit to. So I will have to do without any respect from you. I would dearly like the settlers to be returned, but I doubt it.That is where I see a problem, they occupy whole villages of GC property. I see the problem, I am surprised you dont.

So you saying that illegal thieving bastards should be treated above the original owners of the land?...mashallah

I really can't see where you going with this.

The solution is for turkey to create villages in turkey and settle them back there...They belong to turkey...why should the owners of the land have to accomodate turkey's illegal colonization?

Where did you get that idea from Boomer? I clearly want them out. Vacating GC property is important for any settlement. I think you are still celebrating.

when there is a will there is always a way...try and apply that rather than saying I want them out but I see a problem...

Celebrations start next week fo a 10 day stay at the beach...till then business as usual

Sorry to barge in like this guys but I have a problem with this. I'd like to see the settlers go back too. However are we going to put everyone of them on the next boat and repatriate them or are we going to look at each case individually?

Those married to TCs. Those that have been here over 30 years and those born here. The vast majority has to go but surely some will have to stay.

why should any of them stay? Where would they continue to stay? On GC Land?

Those that qualify to stay will have to vacate the GCs property and rehoused. We need to do this in a humane way. You cant deny the fact they are also victims of circumstances. If we were to kick them off the island like IDI Amin we would be no better than him.

If you don't agree with Idi Amin, then how on earth can you critisize kikapu when he bags turkey and her policies?...Isn't turkey that created this mess in the forst place?

When she abused her guarantor rights?...

[denizaksulu]

Isn't it all just so much simpler, ethically correct and justifiable, for the Bloody Turks to just go back to Turkey, and let the poor people they have ethnically cleansed from their homes so violently a few years ago, to return to their rightful abodes.

That would end the torture, the name calling, the blaming, the holding to ransom of TCs and GCs by Turkey etc.

. . . . and then everything will be hunky dory and the Lawyers can find something else to do.

Your feminine mind has made a very rare and welcome apparance Phoenix mou. Do you really think that it would be so simple as you are suggesting. The ECHR would be protecting the settlers who have established themselves in the North. I wish it were so simple.

Blatant attempt to find excuses ..... I would respect you more if you came out and admitted you do not want a solution other than what you already have

However, the settlers have no more rights than any other illegal immigrants to any country, and there are already established procedures for repatriating such drifters.

They are not an obstacle . . . . I re-iterate: the first and foremost path to resolving the Cyprus problem is complete withdrawal of Turkish troops.

Quite honetly my dear, I dont give a damn. Sorry wrong scenario. Actually I do care to be respected. As far as I am concerned we have no solution. So there is nothing I can admit to. So I will have to do without any respect from you. I would dearly like the settlers to be returned, but I doubt it.That is where I see a problem, they occupy whole villages of GC property. I see the problem, I am surprised you dont.

So you saying that illegal thieving bastards should be treated above the original owners of the land?...mashallah

I really can't see where you going with this.

The solution is for turkey to create villages in turkey and settle them back there...They belong to turkey...why should the owners of the land have to accomodate turkey's illegal colonization?

Where did you get that idea from Boomer? I clearly want them out. Vacating GC property is important for any settlement. I think you are still celebrating.

when there is a will there is always a way...try and apply that rather than saying I want them out but I see a problem...

Celebrations start next week fo a 10 day stay at the beach...till then business as usual

Sorry to barge in like this guys but I have a problem with this. I'd like to see the settlers go back too. However are we going to put everyone of them on the next boat and repatriate them or are we going to look at each case individually?

Those married to TCs. Those that have been here over 30 years and those born here. The vast majority has to go but surely some will have to stay.

why should any of them stay? Where would they continue to stay? On GC Land?

Those that qualify to stay will have to vacate the GCs property and rehoused. We need to do this in a humane way. You cant deny the fact they are also victims of circumstances. If we were to kick them off the island like IDI Amin we would be no better than him.

If you don't agree with Idi Amin, then how on earth can you critisize kikapu when he bags turkey and her policies?...Isn't turkey that created this mess in the forst place?

When she abused her guarantor rights?...

The champers has already gone to your head. You forgot that Nicos Sampson invited them in. Now we all suffer. Damn Nicos.

[MR-from-NG]

Isn't it all just so much simpler, ethically correct and justifiable, for the Bloody Turks to just go back to Turkey, and let the poor people they have ethnically cleansed from their homes so violently a few years ago, to return to their rightful abodes.

That would end the torture, the name calling, the blaming, the holding to ransom of TCs and GCs by Turkey etc.

. . . . and then everything will be hunky dory and the Lawyers can find something else to do.

Your feminine mind has made a very rare and welcome apparance Phoenix mou. Do you really think that it would be so simple as you are suggesting. The ECHR would be protecting the settlers who have established themselves in the North. I wish it were so simple.

Blatant attempt to find excuses ..... I would respect you more if you came out and admitted you do not want a solution other than what you already have

However, the settlers have no more rights than any other illegal immigrants to any country, and there are already established procedures for repatriating such drifters.

They are not an obstacle . . . . I re-iterate: the first and foremost path to resolving the Cyprus problem is complete withdrawal of Turkish troops.

Quite honetly my dear, I dont give a damn. Sorry wrong scenario. Actually I do care to be respected. As far as I am concerned we have no solution. So there is nothing I can admit to. So I will have to do without any respect from you. I would dearly like the settlers to be returned, but I doubt it.That is where I see a problem, they occupy whole villages of GC property. I see the problem, I am surprised you dont.

So you saying that illegal thieving bastards should be treated above the original owners of the land?...mashallah

I really can't see where you going with this.

The solution is for turkey to create villages in turkey and settle them back there...They belong to turkey...why should the owners of the land have to accomodate turkey's illegal colonization?

Where did you get that idea from Boomer? I clearly want them out. Vacating GC property is important for any settlement. I think you are still celebrating.

when there is a will there is always a way...try and apply that rather than saying I want them out but I see a problem...

Celebrations start next week fo a 10 day stay at the beach...till then business as usual

Sorry to barge in like this guys but I have a problem with this. I'd like to see the settlers go back too. However are we going to put everyone of them on the next boat and repatriate them or are we going to look at each case individually?

Those married to TCs. Those that have been here over 30 years and those born here. The vast majority has to go but surely some will have to stay.

why should any of them stay? Where would they continue to stay? On GC Land?

Those that qualify to stay will have to vacate the GCs property and rehoused. We need to do this in a humane way. You cant deny the fact they are also victims of circumstances. If we were to kick them off the island like IDI Amin we would be no better than him.

If you don't agree with Idi Amin, then how on earth can you critisize kikapu when he bags turkey and her policies?...Isn't turkey that created this mess in the forst place?

When she abused her guarantor rights?...

I dont think we should start pointing fingers of blame here, we will be going in circles forever. We are in a mess because of circumstances. Lets blame Turkey, Greece, USA, UK TCs GCs, what are we going to gain?

The issue in hand is the settlers. I personally would like to see them all go, but when we look at the bigger picture then we know there has to be a compromise. Anybody with a heart will agree with me that some settlers will have to stay, sad but true.

[boomerang]

Ok if some stay then you will not be an 18% minority...you might even constitude 30% if not more...so what the hell is wrong with a unitary state?

[Viewpoint]

Ok if some stay then you will not be an 18% minority...you might even constitude 30% if not more...so what the hell is wrong with a unitary state?

Unitary state cannot be achieved on day 1 as there is no trust between the 2 communities and the last 5 years have in fact made things worse because TCs trust GCs less today than when the borders were closed. NO TC wants to be ruled solely by a GC, or even allow them the opportunity to twist ad manipulate the situation to take total control, how you formulate the structure is what has been deluding us for 48 years.

[boomerang]

Ok if some stay then you will not be an 18% minority...you might even constitude 30% if not more...so what the hell is wrong with a unitary state?

Unitary state cannot be achieved on day 1 as there is no trust between the 2 communities and the last 5 years have in fact made things worse because TCs trust GCs less today than when the borders were closed. NO TC wants to be ruled solely by a GC, or even allow them the opportunity to twist ad manipulate the situation to take total control, how you formulate the structure is what has been deluding us for 48 years.

Actually you are not understanding to what I am saying...if you constitude 30% plus with the settlers and unite you will be in charge...

Unless of cource you do not trust your own people in making the right choice...

[Viewpoint]

Ok if some stay then you will not be an 18% minority...you might even constitude 30% if not more...so what the hell is wrong with a unitary state?

Unitary state cannot be achieved on day 1 as there is no trust between the 2 communities and the last 5 years have in fact made things worse because TCs trust GCs less today than when the borders were closed. NO TC wants to be ruled solely by a GC, or even allow them the opportunity to twist ad manipulate the situation to take total control, how you formulate the structure is what has been deluding us for 48 years.

Actually you are not understanding to what I am saying...if you constitude 30% plus with the settlers and unite you will be in charge...

Unless of cource you do not trust your own people in making the right choice...

Unite with 70% GCs??? You are not being very clear.

[CopperLine]

Jerry may be right when he says

Look this Immovable Property Commission is a big joke and the ECHR will be damaging its reputation if it accepts it

That was my point about the 'privatisation' of the settlement process, or at least about pulling the rug from the comprehensive settlement process.

What was the crucial claim to and judgement of the ECHR ? Individual GCs had not been able to enjoy their human right to enjoy their property/possessions in the occupied north. They argued that the administration in the north, named as Turkey (due to non-recognition of TRNC) and ECHR signatory, had failed to protect these rights. Further, and in particular, they argued that there was no effective way for them to secure those rights within the north (because the TRNC authorities were not de jure recognised, and that in any case the de facto authority was Turkey) and that therefore there was no effective local remedy. The ECHR basically said 'yes your rights to property have not been guaranteed/protected and therefore you have a claim against Turkey'. Second the ECHR said in effect 'that indeed there was no judicial mechanism in place in the north to assess and adjudicate on property claims, and this was also a failure on the part of Turkey', the respondent state. Third it said, 'given the potential high numbers of claims, given the failure of Turkey through TRNC to fulfil its obligations to institute an effective local remedy, that the judgement of the court was that a local mechanism must be established.'

The stage that we are at now is that the effectiveness of that mechanism, i.e, the property commission, is under ECHR scrutiny. Whether we like it or not, the day to day operation of that commission is undertaken by TRNC authorities and agencies. Sure the legal case is against Turkey, and maybe the political pressure is more on Turkey than the TRNC, but the fact remains that the work is being done or not done by TRNC authorities.

Nikitas I'm note sure what you were driving at with reference to the CoE, in relation to the ECHR cases ? That aside, I'm not sure about 'jubilation in the north' - my sense for what it is worth is that a lot of this stuff just passes people by. Again you may be right that 'The more people resort to the properties board the weaker the TRNC becomes', but I'm not sure. It could be the other way around. It could be that it is Turkey loses some grip over TRNC and Cyprus, and in comparative terms TRNC in implementing an effective local remedy demonstrates some degree of autonomy and credibility. Yes, that may be a long shot or a speculation, but I would still argue two things : first, in this regard TRNC interests and Trukey's interests are NOT identical; and second, the individualisation of the settlement serves in some way to compromise and complicate a comprehensive settlement (the latter of which is going nowhere fast, I concede)