Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

Thank you Nikitas

[denizaksulu]

"maybe you are right and he does not know what he is ding but why not just give the GCs public land in the south and have done with it??"

Zan,

There you put your finger on an aspect of the problem not touched by others but one that bothers me. I am not attached to all parts of Cyprus equally. I grew up in Famagusta and know the district more than any other. Paphos to me is as foreign as the district of Patras in Greece. I want to return to Famagusta. Being free in one's country means being free to move about, choose where to live and work, and having one's patrimony untouched. Violating this right was the crime of the GCs in 1963. Repeating it in reverse 30 years later does not put things right.

The challenge is how to merge this right with the need of the TCs to feel secure. IT is for this reason that the archbishop's offer intrigued me. He did say if the TCs want to remain in the north they can. As I understood it they will retain ownership of their properties in the south, and the Church would finnce rehousing them in the north on public and perhaps on church land.

Christofias being a politician was more realistic in his proposal. He said that it is possible with some territorial readjustment to retain the TCs in the north in such way that even if all GC displaced persons chose to return the TCs would still be the majority by far.
It is a strange and typically Cypriot turn of events that the church and the communists would be more or less on the same lines of thinking!

Interesting points are made here. Would Christofias hold a referandum to see if the people as a whole would go along with this, or would it be enforced? I can no see it working or being accepted.

[humanist]

Deniz

Interesting points are made here. Would Christofias hold a referandum to see if the people as a whole would go along with this, or would it be enforced? I can no see it working or being accepted.

Deniz I would like to hear as to why you don't think it will work.

I mean my view is that the whole situation is mad, and are we perpetuating the inequalities cried out by the monority groups, or am I speaking from a majority perspective or am I simply thinking from a larger perspective?

[Viewpoint]

Deniz

Interesting points are made here. Would Christofias hold a referandum to see if the people as a whole would go along with this, or would it be enforced? I can no see it working or being accepted.

Deniz I would like to hear as to why you don't think it will work.

I mean my view is that the whole situation is mad, and are we perpetuating the inequalities cried out by the monority groups, or am I speaking from a majority perspective or am I simply thinking from a larger perspective?

Humanist you are always thinking from a GC perspective and therefore promote the ideology that we are all Cypriots to cover up what we feel is the real goal and that is to allow GCs to rule the whole island supreme due to their numerical advantage. In the early stages of unification there is no trust whatsoever and a structure to accommodate concerns from both sides should be put in place to ensure no side reneges on an agreement, knowing full well that if they should try to amend the constitution they will cause the total independence of both states. If such drastic measures are not in place there will be no deterrent and either side could attempt to derail a potential solution.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz

Interesting points are made here. Would Christofias hold a referandum to see if the people as a whole would go along with this, or would it be enforced? I can no see it working or being accepted.

Deniz I would like to hear as to why you don't think it will work.

I mean my view is that the whole situation is mad, and are we perpetuating the inequalities cried out by the monority groups, or am I speaking from a majority perspective or am I simply thinking from a larger perspective?

The point I was making touches on something which was said, to the effect of, seeing your 'land' as your 'birth-right. Where you want to live. Personally I would love to live (I know I can, whenever I want to) in the south where MY lands are. Where my forbears are buried, where once I toiled the land with my bare hands. Why I asked if Christofias would ask the 'people', is because I am assuming there are many who think likewise. I am only referring to the GCs here.

Thats why I se the 'settlers' as an obstacle. What do you do with them?

[zan]

Deniz

Interesting points are made here. Would Christofias hold a referandum to see if the people as a whole would go along with this, or would it be enforced? I can no see it working or being accepted.

Deniz I would like to hear as to why you don't think it will work.

I mean my view is that the whole situation is mad, and are we perpetuating the inequalities cried out by the monority groups, or am I speaking from a majority perspective or am I simply thinking from a larger perspective?

The point I was making touches on something which was said, to the effect of, seeing your 'land' as your 'birth-right. Where you want to live. Personally I would love to live (I know I can, whenever I want to) in the south where MY lands are. Where my forbears are buried, where once I toiled the land with my bare hands. Why I asked if Christofias would ask the 'people', is because I am assuming there are many who think likewise. I am only referring to the GCs here.

Thats why I se the 'settlers' as an obstacle. What do you do with them?

This where the whole thing breaks down in terms of leaving them out of the equation and al the ifs' that are banded around. This is just a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. It's like the Gs are saying.."We don't mind what you do as long as you don't do it on our land". No respect for the situation or the eal needs of the TC people. As was said in the first place by Nikitas...Very naive.

[Nikitas]

VP said:

"In the early stages of unification there is no trust whatsoever and a structure to accommodate concerns from both sides should be put in place to ensure no side reneges on an agreement, "

True, and that is why GCs do not want to let go of the ROC.

Deniz you have a point about the ability to choose your place of residence. Christofias was pressed by three interviewers plus the station anchor to give details of his interpretation of these aspects.

He insisted that it is possible to have a biregional arrangement that will allow freedom of establishment and still retain ethnic majorities both in the north and in the south. And that is what a true federation is all about anyway, otherwise it is partition.

Like Deniz who knows the south, I know the north, actually the north east of the island and if I ever return I would want to live there.

As this was part of Christofias' election campaign and details made public, a referendum would not be necessary. But if the referendum contains drastic changes, like the dissolution of the RoC, then it needs direct approval and legitimisation directly from the people.

The settlers who become Cypriots by marriage are not a problem. The rest can be given generous compensation to leave. Generous in this case means an amount that would allow them to return to Turkey and set themselves up nicely.

[denizaksulu]

VP said:

"In the early stages of unification there is no trust whatsoever and a structure to accommodate concerns from both sides should be put in place to ensure no side reneges on an agreement, "

True, and that is why GCs do not want to let go of the ROC.

Deniz you have a point about the ability to choose your place of residence. Christofias was pressed by three interviewers plus the station anchor to give details of his interpretation of these aspects.

He insisted that it is possible to have a biregional arrangement that will allow freedom of establishment and still retain ethnic majorities both in the north and in the south. And that is what a true federation is all about anyway, otherwise it is partition.

Like Deniz who knows the south, I know the north, actually the north east of the island and if I ever return I would want to live there.

As this was part of Christofias' election campaign and details made public, a referendum would not be necessary. But if the referendum contains drastic changes, like the dissolution of the RoC, then it needs direct approval and legitimisation directly from the people.
The settlers who become Cypriots by marriage are not a problem. The rest can be given generous compensation to leave. Generous in this case means an amount that would allow them to return to Turkey and set themselves up nicely.

The RoC, as formed in 1960 or the current RoC. I just thought that the 1960 RoC was not by public approval, but imposed on us, TCs and GCs? Is that the case?

[Viewpoint]

VP said:

"In the early stages of unification there is no trust whatsoever and a structure to accommodate concerns from both sides should be put in place to ensure no side reneges on an agreement, "

True, and that is why GCs do not want to let go of the ROC.

Deniz you have a point about the ability to choose your place of residence. Christofias was pressed by three interviewers plus the station anchor to give details of his interpretation of these aspects.

He insisted that it is possible to have a biregional arrangement that will allow freedom of establishment and still retain ethnic majorities both in the north and in the south. And that is what a true federation is all about anyway, otherwise it is partition.

Like Deniz who knows the south, I know the north, actually the north east of the island and if I ever return I would want to live there.

As this was part of Christofias' election campaign and details made public, a referendum would not be necessary. But if the referendum contains drastic changes, like the dissolution of the RoC, then it needs direct approval and legitimisation directly from the people.
The settlers who become Cypriots by marriage are not a problem. The rest can be given generous compensation to leave. Generous in this case means an amount that would allow them to return to Turkey and set themselves up nicely.

The RoC, as formed in 1960 or the current RoC. I just thought that the 1960 RoC was not by public approval, but imposed on us, TCs and GCs? Is that the case?

Deniz the GCs object to the 1960 constitution and people like Piratis also claim it was forced upon them, how long do you think it would be before they came up with a modern day version of the Akritas plan? Why not scrap something that did not work in the past and create something that will work now and in the future when we have the opportunity to do so. Psychologically TCs will never be able to return to the 1960 agreements as it would mean that the last 34 years were all in vain.

[denizaksulu]

VP said:

"In the early stages of unification there is no trust whatsoever and a structure to accommodate concerns from both sides should be put in place to ensure no side reneges on an agreement, "

True, and that is why GCs do not want to let go of the ROC.

Deniz you have a point about the ability to choose your place of residence. Christofias was pressed by three interviewers plus the station anchor to give details of his interpretation of these aspects.

He insisted that it is possible to have a biregional arrangement that will allow freedom of establishment and still retain ethnic majorities both in the north and in the south. And that is what a true federation is all about anyway, otherwise it is partition.

Like Deniz who knows the south, I know the north, actually the north east of the island and if I ever return I would want to live there.

As this was part of Christofias' election campaign and details made public, a referendum would not be necessary. But if the referendum contains drastic changes, like the dissolution of the RoC, then it needs direct approval and legitimisation directly from the people.
The settlers who become Cypriots by marriage are not a problem. The rest can be given generous compensation to leave. Generous in this case means an amount that would allow them to return to Turkey and set themselves up nicely.

The RoC, as formed in 1960 or the current RoC. I just thought that the 1960 RoC was not by public approval, but imposed on us, TCs and GCs? Is that the case?

Deniz the GCs object to the 1960 constitution and people like Piratis also claim it was forced upon them, how long do you think it would be before they came up with a modern day version of the Akritas plan? Why not scrap something that did not work in the past and create something that will work now and in the future when we have the opportunity to do so. Psychologically TCs will never be able to return to the 1960 agreements as it would mean that the last 34 years were all in vain.

Right. Thats my point, just put more eloquently. Thanks

Still expect a reply from Nikitas.