Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

We will see.

If you decided for partition, start giving back the RoC passports.

The passports TCs are issued are RoC's passports not "RoC's". After the partition it will become "RoC's" passport not the RoC. Then we'll throw the Greek Cypriot RoC's passports into dustbin.

[Piratis]

Now I think about it, criminal theives should be in jail, and they are not allowed to travel. I don't think the passports should be given to you in the first place.

[metecyp]

Now I think about it, criminal theives should be in jail, and they are not allowed to travel. I don't think the passports should be given to you in the first place.

It's all coming up. First the guns, then the bullets in the head, now TCs not deserving the RoC passports...what's next?

If your side declared to the whole world that they don't represent TCs, then I wouldn't have any problem with your side's denying passports to TCs. But you can't claim that you're the only legal government of the island representing TCs, and then not give passports to TCs.

[Kifeas]

Now I think about it, criminal theives should be in jail, and they are not allowed to travel. I don't think the passports should be given to you in the first place.

Piratis, slow down man! Viewpoint and Insan are winding you up man! don't you realise it?

[Piratis]

I wouldn't have any problem with your side's denying passports to TCs

Where did I say that I want to deny passport to TCs? I said to put in jail and to punish the criminal thieves. Isn't this what every country is doing?

The disrespect to RoC comes from those that do not respect its laws and its sovereignty. People that do not respect the laws of course they should be penalized. What else do you want?

[Othellos]

Metecyp

the blame on both sides because that's what I truly believe. But I can't say GC members of the forum share my belief because all they try to do is put the blame on Turkey and TCs who they describe as greedy thieves.

I am glad that you say this, although sometimes I feel that this does not always show in your posts. In any case, I will just take your word for it, at least for now. Besides, we all have our own biases so it does take a lot of effort and maturity to be able to see / understand events that have personally affected you from an entirely different vantage point.

Tell us what they are then? We're greedy? We're thieves and we love to occupy someone else's land?

Since you are already jumping into conclusions about what I will say (?) then lets play it your way: isn’t it a fact that in Cyprus the Turks are currently occupying the homes of thousands of GCs? Isn't it a fact that at least 40,000 GCs could return to their own homes TOMORROW in Famagusta and other areas that are now rotting away if Turkey just withdrew its occupation troops 3 or 4 miles back from their current positions? And isn't it also a fact that many Turks are extremely reluctant about returning these homes to their rightful GC owners, or even about allowing them just return to them, even after a solution?

Also, while u do not want to be called a "thief", at the same time you have no problem insisting that in the event of a solution, the return of thousands of GCs can endanger your community's physical existence and therefore they should never get to see their homes again. Not only your argument implies that all Greek Cypriot refugees are "evil", "murderers" etc, but it also defies logic – if this is the case (and in my opinion it is not) then why do you even say that u want a solution that reunifies Cyprus? Or is it something else that you are after? About greed on the other hand, (which exists in many forms and among many Cypriots from both sides), this is imho a reason why the problem was created in the first place as well as why it will continue to exist in its current form.

I don't understand how you can ignore our fears when an educated, intelligent member of this forum (Piratis) admits that he has a gun in his house and he declares the intend to use it to put bullet in the head of someone. How do you expect us to live in the majority of such people that accepts violence and considers us greedy thieves?

You (we) really need to think more about the solution we would like to see happening: should it be a true reunification of the island or should it be 2 separate entities with extremely loose ties between them?

If you are after the first, then you should be supporting a solution that aims in correcting all current injustices (to the extend that this is possible of course). At present you are certainly not doing this. Your expectation to gain the cooperation and understanding of all those who suffered and who lost their homes or loved ones because of Turkey's invasion in 1974, while at the same time maintaining all kinds of injustices against them will just not do it. If, on the other hand, you are eager to see 4/5 of the island’s indigenous population being "punished eternally", I suspect that this will not lead us anywhere either. Those TCs on the other hand who are sincere about reunification (and such people do exist, but not necessarily in this forum) could perhaps consider a more open minded and progressive approach.

I am not sure I understand all this discussion about Piratis pulling a gun trigger….perhaps I missed something, so I will just leave the 2 of u to sort it out.

Viewpoint

We cant turn the clock back and what is done is done theres no magic formula to make everything right all that we could do is try to put things right by negotiations for a comprehensive solution which we have been trying to do for over 40 years, it must be obvious to everyone on this forum although the majority do not want to admitt it but we are no closer to agreeing and making a solution now that we were 40 years, the years have passed by our mistrust and non tollerance of each other has not change one bit. We messed up big time and we have to live with the consequences which is what we have now.

Hmm…..while u are right that the clock cannot be turned back, you are still being generous with other peoples homes and properties.

Where do you live and exist Othellos??dont you live in your own country the RoC??? How can we both give back what TCs and GCs lost during the last 40 years, how is this possible we dont trust you and you dont trust us and obviously from certain comments on this forum have venumous attitude towards us and that any attempt to live together is doomed from the outset because of actions and dialogue not 30 years ago but today, just read the comments of the contributors, anger hate and rejection of each other fears and concerns, this is not a good foundation to erect a united Cyprus.

Again you are avoiding the real issue: if a solution ever happens it is only fair (an therefore reasonable) that all Cypriots should be eventually able to travel and live anywhere in their country under free, safe and democratic conditions. This you seem to have a problem accepting when it comes to the GCs. The permanent restrictions that you and other TCs in this forum support are based on the ethnic background and religion of individuals in nothing less than sheer racism. But if you can tell me a case where such racism has ever worked in favour of an entire country then I may be able to appreciate better what you support.

I have to say with regret that we all paid the price for our actions, we Cypriots messed up big time.

I agree with that and I will also add that usually the whole pays for the actions of a few (idiots) - this is neither fair nor rational. What is even more irrational (and this is where I disagree with you) is trying to solve old or existing problems through a series of racial discriminations (this is like laying the foundations for future ones).

Kucuk Kaymakli, they had to evacuate their home in the fighting of the 1963 and got caught up in the fighting in 1974.

What I understood in your earlier post is that your wife's home was attacked sometime after the coup on 15/7/74 and before the invasion actually started on 20/7/74. To the best of my knowledge no such attack has ever taken place anywhere in Cyprus in the 5 days between the coup and the invasion. If we could all stick to the facts and if we could be honest about them, a lot of the discussions in this forum would be a lot better.

Othellos do you really believe we can live together in a safe free and prosperous environment and under a united Cyprus, many know my personal opinion which is we cannot otherwise we will be arguing forever and not getting anywhere, TCs should accept to returns lands + compensation and GCs should agree to partition/recognition + compensation.

No one is saying that a real reunification will be an easy, hassle-free or inexpensive task if this is ever attempted. It will take a lot of genuine effort, wisdom and strength from all for something like this to ever happen. But then again nothing is impossible, as long as there is a reason and a will for it to happen. When I read many of the posts in this forum, I have doubts as to whether people (in here) believe that there is either a reason or the will for reunification (without quotes).

O.

[insan]

Now I think about it, criminal theives should be in jail, and they are not allowed to travel. I don't think the passports should be given to you in the first place.

Piratis, slow down man! Viewpoint and Insan are winding you up man! don't you realise it?

I'm winding up Piratis? Hahahaha. If my arguments wind up Piratis, it's not my problem. It's the problem of the people who wind themselves up when discussing and it's the problem of people who try to protect "some" and put the blame on "others" under any circumstances; i.e nepotism.

[Kifeas]

I'm winding up Piratis? Hahahaha. If my arguments wind up Piratis, it's not my problem.

I didn't say it is your problem my friend!

It's the problem of the people who wind themselves up when discussing and it's the problem of people who try to protect "some" under any circumstances; i.e nepotism.

Which people are you referring to, that try to protect "some" under any circumstances? Speak straight, Insan?

[insan]

I'm winding up Piratis? Hahahaha. If my arguments wind up Piratis, it's not my problem.

I didn't say it is your problem my friend!

It's the problem of the people who wind themselves up when discussing and it's the problem of people who try to protect "some" under any circumstances; i.e nepotism.

Which people are you referring to, that try to protect "some" under any circumstances? Speak straight, Insan?

You are simply trying to blame viewpoint and me as the responsibles of Piratis' nerdily bahaviours. This is not the first time Piratis behaves nerdily.

[Kifeas]

You are simply trying to blame viewpoint and me as the responsibles of Piratis' nerdily bahaviours. This is not the first time Piratis behaves nerdily.

No I do blame you and Viewpoint. I blame Piratis for falling into your trap and reacts "nerdily." Piratis is not the warmonger that you want to make him appear. But if he constantly hears you and viewpoint talking about partition, he responds with a similar cynicism, and vice versa of course.