Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Othellos

Aaah...here is another new yet "brilliant" theory: that the homes and properties of all the GC refugees were "co-owned" by you.

Please read the whole post in context and try to understand that lives are more important than property or money. Pre 1974 we all owned Cyprus but we fucked up and couldnt share it, so it was enevatble that the divide or continous discrimination (which I am old enough to recall) would have continued against TCs, for gods sake we couldnt even share the same beaches as you guys or talk our own language in GC areas.
I would give everything material I own for the lives and safety of my children, pre 1974 was a bad era for us and the war brought it to an end, we have property in the south also why arent we crying like you guys all the time because firstly we value the lives of our loved ones before any building or piece of land.

I try to understand your loss but if we continued with no Turkish intervention circumstancies for us would have been a lot worse, we would have been wiped out. My wife was trapped in a house with bullets flying through, being shot at by Greeks and GCs prior to the 20th of July, they were without food or water for days. If GCs were against the Coup and Enosis why didnt they join TCs in throwing them out????and realizing they were Cypriots back then not today when division has been in place for 31 years.

[Deejay]

Harry,

People like Deejay, want us to visit our own country like tourists. They want to keep what they stole from us. Such people are criminal thieves.

Deejay, I don't need your "welcoming". I will come to the north of my own country sooner or later without it. Either when a peaceful solution comes that will re-unite the island or when I will come to put a bullet in the head of those like you that believe that the Cyprus problem can be solved with violence and ethnic cleansing.

I guess it's illegal to be nice these days as well. You just can't win either way with you Piratis..what else exactly belongs to the great Greek empire as well? New York? London? Maybe Australia too..I'm sure I saw a greek statue ot two down the road.

You have to take out the hatred mate...when you have done that it is only then you can discuss a formal solution. You don't even look at Turkish people as human.....your at a stage where you are evil.

[Piratis]

There is nothing evil with punishing the criminal thieves like you.

You stole what belongs to us, and not only you want to get away with it, but you also want to keep what you stole!!

You do not own Kerinia, you do not own Famagusta, you do not own Morfou or any other village that you currently illegally occupy.

[metecyp]

I will come to put a bullet in the head of those like you that believe that the Cyprus problem can be solved with violence and ethnic cleansing.

So you're going to fight violence and ethnic cleansing by bullets (i.e. more violence)? That's really smart Piratis. This is exactly why TCs don't want to live in a GC majority. If a person like you, which I consider educated and intelligent enough to support his arguments, can consider a bullet in the head, I don't even want to imagine what an ordinary GC might consider.

[Piratis]

So you're going to fight violence and ethnic cleansing by bullets (i.e. more violence)?

I believe if you have the power it works. Isn't it?
Aren't you the ones who tell us that we should accept the "realities" of your violence and the ethnic cleansing you performed against us?

[metecyp]

Aren't you the ones who tell us that we should accept the "realities" of your violence and the ethnic cleansing you performed against us?

No, I'm asking you to accept the conditions created after the violence committed by both sides, not just in 1974 but in the last 40 years. Violence started first with EOKA struggle in 1950s, stopped for a while in 1960, then continued against TCs in 1963 until 1967. Then we had 1974 where violence peaked on both sides. 1974 wasn't just Turkish violence or Greek violence. We both killed and got killed. Just for your reference, Atlilar-Murataga-Sandallar....women and children in these villages were wiped out by your side's violence. As a result of violence on both sides, we have a condition that we've been living in for 30 years now. If someone who survived Atlilar-Murataga-Sandallar massacre doesn't want to live with GCs due to his/her fears from the past, isn't that his/her right to do so? Is he/she simply asking you to accept the results of the violence committed against your community or is it much deeper than that? In any way, nothing justifies your "putting bullets in the head" and I'm still amazed that someone like you can even think of that and now you tell me that I should trust living in a GC majority when you talk about "putting bullets in the head".

[Othellos]

Viewpoint

Please read the whole post in context and try to understand that lives are more important than property or money.

In principal I would agree with your above satement. However, in this particular case I must point out that you are being "generous" with other peoples (occupied) homes and lands. Now this is a very easy thing to do, but that does not mean that it is also right.

Pre 1974 we all owned Cyprus but we fucked up and couldnt share it, so it was enevatble that the divide or continous discrimination (which I am old enough to recall) would have continued against TCs, for gods sake we couldnt even share the same beaches as you guys or talk our own language in GC areas.

I remember TCs before 1974 being able to speak Turkish among GCs. And as for going to the beach, I do not know - GCs and TCs look very much alike, especially in bathing suits. But since you use the word "we" should I assume that you also blame Turkey's expansionist / separatist policies in Cyprus between 1960-1974 for the current situation? Because as far as I remember (and like u I too am old enough to recall a few things), the TCs could exit the enclaves while GCs could never enter them. Also, is it true that at some point TCs were subject to fines and other punishments for exiting the enclaves without permission?

I would give everything material I own for the lives and safety of my children, pre 1974 was a bad era for us and the war brought it to an end, we have property in the south also why arent we crying like you guys all the time because firstly we value the lives of our loved ones before any building or piece of land.

This is not about material wealth: it is about the right to live and exist in your own country as a free human being. But of course one may chose not to understand that, depending on what his interests are. Simply put and as other GC members wrote elsewhere in this forum several times) all we want is what belongs to us.

I try to understand your loss but if we continued with no Turkish intervention circumstancies for us would have been a lot worse, we would have been wiped out.

While you try to built your arguments on assumprions ("if", "would have been"), the fact is that in july 1974 it was the GCs who were wiped out (ethnically cleansed) from the occupied areas, by Turkey. 31 years later, we have certain TCs "advocating" in favor of this ethnic cleansing and its results, while at the same time they claim that they support ..."reunification" (do they support it?)

My wife was trapped in a house with bullets flying through, being shot at by Greeks and GCs prior to the 20th of July, they were without food or water for days.

So, where is your wife from? I am curious to know more about this case that you describe and in which you claim that GCs attacked TCs before the invasion actually started.

If GCs were against the Coup and Enosis why didnt they join TCs in throwing them out????and realizing they were Cypriots back then not today when division has been in place for 31 years.

When some Turks "feel the need" to "explain" the high number of GC casualties in 1974, (over 6000 dead in less than a month + the missing) they blame the coupists for it. But when they must justify the invasion and its results, they say "why didn't you oppose them?" (as if they could). Convenient, huh?

O.

[Piratis]

No, I'm asking you to accept the conditions created after the violence committed by both sides

Ok, I will tell you the same after the next round of violence that we will be the winners and you the looses.

Do you think you won the war and we now have to accept it?

We lost a whole lot more than you did in 74. This is not a poker game that you can walk away while you are winning.

The only way to stop it is to agree to go back to the 1960 agreements. I do not accept that out of this violence you will come better off, and we will come worst off. Why should I accept that? Because you won and we lost?

[Othellos]

Violence started first with EOKA struggle in 1950s, stopped for a while in 1960, then continued against TCs in 1963 until 1967. Then we had 1974 where violence peaked on both sides. 1974 wasn't just Turkish violence or Greek violence. We both killed and got killed.

Sometimes I wonder, metecyp, about how much you and other TCs really know about Turkish violence against GCs in the '50's, in the 60's and in 1974......

If someone who survived Atlilar-Murataga-Sandallar massacre doesn't want to live with GCs due to his/her fears from the past, isn't that his/her right to do so?

If this is the problem then it can easily be solved: build a small town for all those TCs who do not want to see a GC again for as long as they live and put them all in there. The same can be done for those GCs who have similar feelings for TCs. The 2 towns can be as far from each other as possible: one in Akamas and one in Karpasia. I do think however that there is a lot more than just "fear" and "past experiences" in all this, and this is part of the reason why we are nowhere near a solution.

O.

[metecyp]

We lost a whole lot more than you did in 74. This is not a poker game that you can walk away while you are winning.

You're stuck in 1974 again. I was talking about violence that started back in 1950s and that peaked and ended in 1974. TCs lost a lot as well, maybe not as much in 1974, but in 1963 and 1967. There're some TCs who had to become refugees in 1958, then in 1963 and then in 1974. I'm not getting into this "who sufferred more" argument though.

The only way to stop it is to agree to go back to the 1960 agreements.

Why is going back to 1960 agreement the only way? With all the safeguards provided for TCs, 1960 agreements were not enough to protect TCs from the majority. They were/are definetely not enough to ensure that TCs have representation in the RoC. Why should we risk everything again and trust your goodwill that everything will be ok when you talk about "putting bullets in the head"?

I do not accept that out of this violence you will come better off, and we will come worst off. Why should I accept that? Because you won and we lost?

I sure don't accept that out of the violence in 1963, your side came much better off. My side lived/lives under isolation excluded from the decision-making, and your side still owns the title of the Republic of Cyprus. Who's the winner now? Your side or my side? Again, you're trying to make the problem look so simple just to support your argument.

Sometimes I wonder, metecyp, about how much you and other TCs really know about Turkish violence against GCs in the '50's, in the 60's and in 1974......

I don't know everything but I believe I know enough to form my judgements. I'm very careful about putting the blame on both sides because that's what I truly believe. But I can't say GC members of the forum share my belief because all they try to do is put the blame on Turkey and TCs who they describe as greedy thieves.

I do think however that there is a lot more than just "fear" and "past experiences" in all this, and this is part of the reason why we are nowhere near a solution.

Tell us what they are then? We're greedy? We're thieves and we love to occupy someone else's land? I don't understand how you can ignore our fears when an educated, intelligent member of this forum (Piratis) admits that he has a gun in his house and he declares the intend to use it to put bullet in the head of someone. How do you expect us to live in the majority of such people that accepts violence and considers us greedy thieves?