Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Pyrpolizer

1)When the eokas have surrendered all their weapons in 1960 and the GC side was totally armless until 1962, the constant smaggling of weapons by the TC side was to stay alive? Was purely reactionary?

You and I both know they went underground, thats how underhand GCs can be and why we have to be extra careful if we ever decide to unite, plenty of safeguards. Knowing that eoka was regrouping the TCs could not just sit around and wait for their fate their had to prepare and fight back the best way they could.

2)the AT THE BLINK OF AN EYE abandoning of your positions in the parliament just because Makarios has PROPOSED something, which you didn't like was simply reactionary for you to stay alive?

Could you tell me exactly why we left parliament? let see who knows history covering this departure.

3)The massive buying of lands at the North of Nicosia, the kicking out of the Armenians and the few GCs in preparation of enclaves before nothing even happened was for you to stay alive?

Can you provide details of the purchases? dates and who brought these lands?

VP either you don't know what really happened, or you are unable to see the true line of events and their linking, or you are too brainwashed by the Turkish propaganda.

If you would kindly reply to the above questions we will soon find out who is making things up as they go along and knows their hisotry.

Nothing was reactionary in Cyprus not even Taksim Vs Enosis. All these are superficial excuses some people invented. Everything was prepared and thought in advance by each side SEPARATELY for the day the British would LEAVE. It was a clush of ethnic forces each hungrily waiting for the political power to come.

Like it or not without your enosis dream their would never have been Taksim, if you had encouraged Cypriotism, human rights and democracy for all back then you may of had a chance. You had your chance the situation has changed completely and will never be as it was.

[BirKibrisli]

Thank you,thank you,Pyro Gardash for embracing this thread in the right spirit. If more people start thinking about the "wrongs" of their own side ,and find the courage to tell it here,we will go a long way to improve the empathy and compassion for each other...
Come on MR...I know you are an intelligent and compassionate man. Let everyone see you can think outside the "propaganda square"....

Just a little note on Pyro's comment on the economics of the problem...I think he is spot on.."Turk'ten Turk'e" campaign was created to improve the TC side economically..In the 50s and 60s (and prior to that of course) there were very few TC businessmen. The TC wealth almost exclusively came from the land...TCs were primary producers,they had little clout in the emerging market economy...Taksim policy had as much to do with the need to create a separate TC business class,as the desire to divide the country politically...

I am still away from my computer. When I get back home I will continue my narrative on recent Cyprus history...I hope people are starting to see the value of this exercise and approach it in the right spirit...

[Nikitas]

Pyro said:

"The same thing will happen if we have a solution. However this time it won't be a crush along ethnic lines it will be the rich Vs the poor. It will take some years for the poor on both sides to realize what happened to them from their own people. Mark my words..."

Fully agree. I tried a few times to post on the class aspect of the Cyprus issue, both during the EOKA campaign and aftter, but it seems the ethnic side of the problem colors everything and people cannot see the relevance of class and money.

The 60s boom was a goldrush for those in the know and with enough influence and clout to get into the best positions. Famagusta was basically a five family business and this had a direct impact on the EOKA B campaign in the early 70s.

It is often thought that the the motives of the foot soldiers of the EOKA B were purely ethnic, they were not. These were people disenchanted because they were left out of the wealth and influence chain. They wanted a turn at the wheel.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu

Why didn't you play it really safe, and moved your family to Turkey, if you had such big fears of Greek being spoken around you and your children, and this is from a man who says the GC's can come and live under the rules of the "TRNC". I suppose you will have either "muzzles" for them to keep their mouths shut when in public, or else have signs all over the place stating "Greek language is forbidden in public places". Why don't you try another line VP.??

Why should I move to Turkey that is not my country, the TRNC is and this is where I belong, where Turkish is the main language.

You are being very idiotic again no one would be muzzled just like the English or Italians etc who visit or live in the TRNC they can speak their own language the GCs who decide to live in the TRNC can also speak their own language, what I am saying is I would like the choice to live in an area where the main language is Turkish which under unfication would be the north and if I should want to live in an environment where Greek is the main language then I would move south.

Still trying to twist and manipulate my viewpoint, it wont work people are not stupid and they can see right through your antics.

Well VP, you have never complained about not wanting to have English, Italian, Russian, German or any other language spoken around you or your children, only Greek, so stands the reason why your comments are viewed as being Racist.

I'm glad you have clarified, that "muzzles" will not be required by the GC's if they wish to live in the North. It will not happen anyway, unless it will be under a True Democratic country in the future for the GC's wanting to move back into their own properties in the North.

VP, tell me something. Did you hate your parents for being able to speak perfect Greek, and without any doubt also having some degree of "Greek blood" in them, much like everyone else who is from Cyprus ?. Do you hate your parents for giving you this "contaminated Greek Blood", and you are not able to handle your paranoia and admit that you are much closer to the GC's in Cyprus than your beloved Ottoman Cousins from the past. One does not live with the "Greeks" for over 400 years and not have any "Greek Blood" in them.

Total rubbish wont even bother answering this crap.

That was an easy "cop out" for not wanting to answer a serious question. Do you deny, that you have some "Greek Blood" in you.??

TC's and GC's have only been living in the UK, America, Australia and other places for no more than 50-60 years for the most part, and some children are 50% "foreign blood", and even 75% for their grand children.

You should know.

Actually VP, I do not know, and if you read what I have asked you to read, you would not be making big a fool of yourself.

[Kikapu]

VP,

The clock is ticking ... tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick.
Still waiting for your answer.

Just as soon as you answer mine, I am fully aware you are not cultured enough to understand that answering a question with a question is rude, so ı am trying to educate you. Respond to my question about proving what you claimed about me reconfiriming what your brother in law claimed and I will gladly respond to yours. You can always try to be honest for a change and say you were lieing yet again.

OK, if that's the way you want to do it, then tell me first, that the Cousin's husband is real, since you did not believe he ever existed and claimed that he was made up by me, and then I will answer your question.

Why on earth should I do that? you are the one who lied and claimed I confirmed everything your brother in law said about the TCs and the TRNC probably to try and credibility to your story, nows the time to prove it or apologies to everyone for lieing.

brother in law said

Amazing just how quickly you lose your train of thought.!!

It is the Cousin's husband VP, the Cousin's husband.!!!!

This is what the Cousin's husband had said back in April of 2007 which you yourself had said very much the same things since then.

Questions and answers are paraphrased.

What the Cousin's husband said:

1. Even though, that the "TRNC" was no longer selling GC properties openly, it was still possible to buy GC land. If I one was interested in buying GC land, it can be arranged.

What VP said:

1. One can buy or exchange GC land if you know the right people in the "TRNC government", and that it happens all the time.

Cousin's husband said:

2. After 50 years, the North will be separated from the South, almost automatically just because of lapsed time.

VP said:

2. Once the present generation dies, future generations will not even have known that there ever was a one Cyprus.

Cousin's husband said:

3. We have no intentions ever going back to live in the South now or in the future.

VP said:

3. I will move my family from Cyprus before I will live in the South, despite owning land in the South.

Cousin's husband said:

4. Turkey will never give up Northern Cyprus.

VP said:

4. We will never be under a GC rule again. If we went back to the past, the last 34 years would have been in vain.

Cousin's husband said:

5. We only voted YES for the AP itself and not for peace.

VP said:

We gave a resounding yes to AP.

These are the similar comments made by you two individuals VP. You know damn well, that the AP was not a long lasting peace but a quick fix for short term for others to benefit from it, before the whole AP would have fallen apart leading to further and more serious problems in Cyprus. So yes, in your mind you must have known, that a resounding Yes on AP was not a vote for a long lasting Peace.

Now, kindly answer my question.

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyro said:

"The same thing will happen if we have a solution. However this time it won't be a crush along ethnic lines it will be the rich Vs the poor. It will take some years for the poor on both sides to realize what happened to them from their own people. Mark my words..."

Fully agree. I tried a few times to post on the class aspect of the Cyprus issue, both during the EOKA campaign and aftter, but it seems the ethnic side of the problem colors everything and people cannot see the relevance of class and money.

The 60s boom was a goldrush for those in the know and with enough influence and clout to get into the best positions. Famagusta was basically a five family business and this had a direct impact on the EOKA B campaign in the early 70s.

It is often thought that the the motives of the foot soldiers of the EOKA B were purely ethnic, they were not. These were people disenchanted because they were left out of the wealth and influence chain. They wanted a turn at the wheel.

Could you please expand your thoughts on this issue concerning the past and also after a possible solution? Make a new topic if you like. I will contribute my thoughts for fter a solution there...

[denizaksulu]

Pyro said:

"The same thing will happen if we have a solution. However this time it won't be a crush along ethnic lines it will be the rich Vs the poor. It will take some years for the poor on both sides to realize what happened to them from their own people. Mark my words..."

Fully agree. I tried a few times to post on the class aspect of the Cyprus issue, both during the EOKA campaign and aftter, but it seems the ethnic side of the problem colors everything and people cannot see the relevance of class and money.

The 60s boom was a goldrush for those in the know and with enough influence and clout to get into the best positions. Famagusta was basically a five family business and this had a direct impact on the EOKA B campaign in the early 70s.

It is often thought that the the motives of the foot soldiers of the EOKA B were purely ethnic, they were not. These were people disenchanted because they were left out of the wealth and influence chain. They wanted a turn at the wheel.

Could you please expand your thoughts on this issue concerning the past and also after a possible solution? Make a new topic if you like. I will contribute my thoughts for fter a solution there...

What a damn good idea (no offence here). If people want to hijack a thread (no offence, really) and pursue a personal grudge, they should always feel free to open a new thread and carry on. Thank you Pyro. I hope others will follow suit. I, included.

Looking forward to sensible discussions as always.

Regards

[Pyrpolizer]

Is this the GC saying "Yia sen ta leo pethera yia na takouei i nymfi"?
Roughly translated "i am just telling all these to you, hoping someone else hears"

[denizaksulu]

Is this the GC saying "Yia sen ta leo pethera yia na takouei i nymfi"?
Roughly translated "i am just telling all these to you, hoping someone else hears"

Friends Cypriots and countrymen, my ears are yours.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

Well VP, you have never complained about not wanting to have English, Italian, Russian, German or any other language spoken around you or your children, only Greek, so stands the reason why your comments are viewed as being Racist.

I didnt complain about these languages as they would be spoken by people sparodically no as the main language, where everywhere is plastered in Greek, I want the option to live like today in my country where my language is the main language, if thats being racists then the whole world is the same.

I'm glad you have clarified, that "muzzles" will not be required by the GC's if they wish to live in the North. It will not happen anyway, unless it will be under a True Democratic country in the future for the GC's wanting to move back into their own properties in the North.

You right they will live under TC democracy and human rights, like me they will have the choice where they wish to live north or south.

That was an easy "cop out" for not wanting to answer a serious question. Do you deny, that you have some "Greek Blood" in you.??

The post was crap so why waste time answering as this is something I do not know anything about so cannot comment, but I wouldnt have a problem with having GC blood because it smore important how your view yourself today, plus my parents could not speak Greek but my faterinlaw can, that any good?

Actually VP, I do not know, and if you read what I have asked you to read, you would not be making big a fool of yourself.

You should you are the one whos has lived abroad for 43 years and mixed with "foreign blood" isnt your current partner Swiss?dont you have any children from this spouse or previous ones?

Amazing just how quickly you lose your train of thought.!!

It is the Cousin's husband VP, the Cousin's husband.!!!!

This is what the Cousin's husband had said back in April of 2007 which you yourself had said very much the same things since then.

Questions and answers are paraphrased.

What the Cousin's husband said:

1. Even though, that the "TRNC" was no longer selling GC properties openly, it was still possible to buy GC land. If I one was interested in buying GC land, it can be arranged.

What VP said:

1. One can buy or exchange GC land if you know the right people in the "TRNC government", and that it happens all the time.

Cousin's husband said:

2. After 50 years, the North will be separated from the South, almost automatically just because of lapsed time.

VP said:

2. Once the present generation dies, future generations will not even have known that there ever was a one Cyprus.

Cousin's husband said:

3. We have no intentions ever going back to live in the South now or in the future.

VP said:

3. I will move my family from Cyprus before I will live in the South, despite owning land in the South.

Cousin's husband said:

4. Turkey will never give up Northern Cyprus.

VP said:

4. We will never be under a GC rule again. If we went back to the past, the last 34 years would have been in vain.

Cousin's husband said:

5. We only voted YES for the AP itself and not for peace.

VP said:

We gave a resounding yes to AP.

These are the similar comments made by you two individuals VP. You know damn well, that the AP was not a long lasting peace but a quick fix for short term for others to benefit from it, before the whole AP would have fallen apart leading to further and more serious problems in Cyprus. So yes, in your mind you must have known, that a resounding Yes on AP was not a vote for a long lasting Peace.

Now, kindly answer my question.

Well done, appears you have learned some manners, I knew you could do it if you tried and went back and did some homework, the connection between sentences is very vague and taken out of context but to keep you happy lets say you mixed and matched well. took you long enough.

Out of courtesy my answer is freedom to move around the whole island.