Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Hi Pypolizer, I have to say I agree with most of what you wrote, but there are a some of your opinions that I have a few questions about...

d)State orchestrated plan to cause ot getting lower. as many difficulties as possible to have the TCs abandon the place. This in modern language is called "attempted ethnic cleaning".

What do you think this state orchestrated plan involved? What were the difficulties faced by the TC's?

f)Makarios, his Ministers, the vast majority of GC officials never hagged the TC community with love and respect, and never tried to make them one of us, and make them our little weak brother that needed help. Teachers in schools, priests, and our enlightened ones never educated the masses in this direction. On the contrary they were educating them the opposite.

From reading your previous posts I know that you grew up in Cyprus during this period, so I'd love to know more about how you were educated to view the TC community? When learning about the past, I don't think it gets much better that reading peoples personal experiences. Also do you think that the way the GC's viewed the TC's during this period would have differed in any way if the constitution had been different and if the TC extremists were not following a partition plan?

g)The church instilled our souls too much hatred for everything non Christian Orthodox. Even the Jehovan witnesses were portraited to us like devil. Imagine the Turks who were mouslim. I believe if the TCs were not in Cyprus, the ethnic troubles would be GCs Vs the Maronites

Thankfully I have never come across a priest that showed such extreme views, but again I’d like to know more about your own personal experiences of the church clergy during the troubled era of the 60's. Would there have been another 'ethnic conflict' in Cyprus, if there wasn’t a TC community? It's an intriguing thought, but I'm not entirely sure I believe there would have been. However I'm interested to know more about why you feel the opposite?

I'd also like to add on another wrong doing of our community...

h) The Government put military blockades on the TC enclaves, but it seems the blockades became something more, making the conditions in the enclaves hard for the TC occupants. I believe that it was some sort of 'scare tactic' used by the Government to scare the TC's out, but from what I can see it only made things worse...

Hi Natty,

To tell you the truth I wasn't that old then to have a real understanding of the world around me. My father was forcing me to read the newspaper every day and tell him what I understood. Well I wasn't understanding much

My grandfather had some "suspicious" background. He was one of 7 orphans and grew up in the streets of a complex of villages when his father got re-married. The "suspicion" about him was that he received Turkish education, I mean he could speak, write and read in Turkish but he could not do so in Greek. He never revealed how was that. When I was a little boy by grandpa was one of the few Greeks who dared cross to the Turkish sector and meet with his friends give me a hair cut at TC barbers etc. When the borders opened I recognised all the places he was taking me...

Anyway when I started having some understanding of the word around me I started wondering where are the Turks of Cyprus and how was it I couldn't easily see as many as when my grandpa was alive. At that stage I started getting some understanding as to what happened to the Turks of Cyprus.
At some stage I learned that it was extremely difficult for a Turk to transfer his lands and properties to another Turk in Cyprus. Probably I learned that from newspapers probably from one of the few TCs by family had contacts -I don't remember. This was my first let's say reaction against this state. When I grew older I got the details fully. There were too many obstacles at the government level for anything a TC would try to do to advance either economically or socially. For example when the Cypriots started exporting fresh produce by air there was clear discrimination against the TCs at the airport and delaying tactics so that the products of TCs would rote and become non-exportable.

I don't remember if that was when the TCs started having their policy from "Turk to a Turk", but imo this policy was countered at government level to either "from Turk to a Greek" or "nothing".
Evil actions from both sides and the one who suffered the most of course was the weaker TC community.

I will continue later as lunch is waiting....

Man are you well or has something hit on the head? You know all this about how life really was for TCs and you make us to be the worst people on the planet for trying to break free to GC dominance and not want ever to go back there again.

[Pyrpolizer]

Yes I know a lot of things but I was only requested to say the wrong-doings of my own side. As you may have noticed I have not said a single word about the wrong-doings of your side. And you are such a chicken yourself you are afraid to open your mouth and tell a single word....

[Pyrpolizer]

And don't tell me everything was a reaction to what the Greeks were doing. As an example who invented the policy from "Turk to a Turk"? The Greeks???

[Kikapu]

I don't hate Greek Cypriots, I don't trust them that I accept but don't mix the 2 because they are totally different, I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Well VP, when you make statements that
"you don't want Greek spoken around you and around your children",
begs to differ with your above claim.

I stand by what I say and I am sure there are GCs who feel the same about raising their children in an environment where Turkish is predominanetly spoken. If I wanted that I would move to Greece.

If I wanted that I would move to Greece.

Why didn't you play it really safe, and moved your family to Turkey, if you had such big fears of Greek being spoken around you and your children, and this is from a man who says the GC's can come and live under the rules of the "TRNC". I suppose you will have either "muzzles" for them to keep their mouths shut when in public, or else have signs all over the place stating "Greek language is forbidden in public places". Why don't you try another line VP.??

VP, tell me something. Did you hate your parents for being able to speak perfect Greek, and without any doubt also having some degree of "Greek blood" in them, much like everyone else who is from Cyprus ?. Do you hate your parents for giving you this "contaminated Greek Blood", and you are not able to handle your paranoia and admit that you are much closer to the GC's in Cyprus than your beloved Ottoman Cousins from the past. One does not live with the "Greeks" for over 400 years and not have any "Greek Blood" in them. TC's and GC's have only been living in the UK, America, Australia and other places for no more than 50-60 years for the most part, and some children are 50% "foreign blood", and even 75% for their grand children.

[MR-from-NG]

Yes I know a lot of things but I was only requested to say the wrong-doings of my own side. As you may have noticed I have not said a single word about the wrong-doings of your side. And you are such a chicken yourself you are afraid to open your mouth and tell a single word....

Whats the point Pyro? What will you or VP gain. As I see it there is too much mistrust and animosity between the communities. The vast majority of GCs will always see us as Turks and hate us with a passion. And if truth be told a vast majority of TCs will hate you guys as you are their lifelong enemies the Greeks.

Please be so kind as to tell me what the best solution would be under these circumstances.

[Kikapu]

VP,

The clock is ticking ... tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick.
Still waiting for your answer.

[growuptcs]

MR-from-NG:

Whats the point Pyro? What will you or VP gain. As I see it there is too much mistrust and animosity between the communities. The vast majority of GCs will always see us as Turks and hate us with a passion. And if truth be told a vast majority of TCs will hate you guys as you are their lifelong enemies the Greeks.

Please be so kind as to tell me what the best solution would be under these circumstances.

We can see your obvious answer mr-from-ng, that the Greeks should gift you their land. Every Turkish think-tank would only shove you this answer in your face with no space for any other REASONABLE answer because THE TURKS SAID SO. Now answer your own question without violating people human rights, and if you cant, leave it for reasonable educated people and go back to farming with your unsocialist attitude.
[/quote]

[Pyrpolizer]

Yes I know a lot of things but I was only requested to say the wrong-doings of my own side. As you may have noticed I have not said a single word about the wrong-doings of your side. And you are such a chicken yourself you are afraid to open your mouth and tell a single word....

Whats the point Pyro? What will you or VP gain. As I see it there is too much mistrust and animosity between the communities. The vast majority of GCs will always see us as Turks and hate us with a passion. And if truth be told a vast majority of TCs will hate you guys as you are their lifelong enemies the Greeks.

Please be so kind as to tell me what the best solution would be under these circumstances.

OK Mrfromng I will tell you:
1)Religion deteriorated so much today that nobody cares.Fortunately the TCs were always atheists so this is a plus.
2)30%+ of the GCs and TCs are almost communist.They don't view the other community along ethnic lines.

From the remaining 70% we have so many educated people today who will either view people of the other community according to education rather than ethnic lines.

I estimate a percetage of about 10% Turk haters in the GC community. Nothing will change their mind at least in the short run. There must be a similar percentage among the TC community. They have no chance to prevail among the GC community.

We all know where we will end up with no solution. So it s in our best interests as Cypriots to re-unify. This re-unification has 2 aspects. The political one and the geographic one. Geographically we will be mostly living in areas where the majority is TCs/GCs respectively.

What will really unite the people is the economy. If you notice carefully it was the economy that splitted the people in the 60's more than anything else.The troubles and the killings would have passed and forgotten if both communities had equal/parallel/codependent economic status.

NB. Think about it:What unites you with the British people there where you live is your economic status. If you were a poor/put aside Asian you would hate the place and the British

[MR-from-NG]

MR-from-NG:

Whats the point Pyro? What will you or VP gain. As I see it there is too much mistrust and animosity between the communities. The vast majority of GCs will always see us as Turks and hate us with a passion. And if truth be told a vast majority of TCs will hate you guys as you are their lifelong enemies the Greeks.

Please be so kind as to tell me what the best solution would be under these circumstances.

We can see your obvious answer mr-from-ng, that the Greeks should gift you their land. Every Turkish think-tank would only shove you this answer in your face with no space for any other REASONABLE answer because THE TURKS SAID SO. Now answer your own question without violating people human rights, and if you cant, leave it for reasonable educated people and go back to farming with your unsocialist attitude.

Did I say anything about holding onto your land? I always said the solution will be a difficult one especially land issue. The fact remains we will end up with a partition, those GCs that want their land back are welcome to come and claim it. Those that want to sell should be able to and those that want compensation are well within their right.

Anyway, you insulted me so I shall do the same now,

GrowupGC, you are the slime in a bath-tub and a venomous piece of shit. You like?

[Pyrpolizer]

Again @ mrfromng

The most funny thing about VP is that she does not even believe what she is saying. She is a conservative person, with some sort of high opinion of her ethnic roots, her educational and economic status etc but when she meets a GC of the same kind I bet you she will be smiling and be friends in no time. In fact she was telling us she had a GC family friends like that in the past. What for, if she is such a Greek hater as she claims she is.

NB. I say "she" because I believe VP is a woman.