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Once Upon a Time there was an island called Cyprus...

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby zan » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:25 pm

Nikitas wrote:I did not deny that ENosis was the goal in the 50s. What I tried to do was to put in the context of the time: post WWII at a time of decolonisation, by a community that did not have much direct iknowledge of what it wanted to unite with, nor any chance to debate the alternatives.

Megali Idea was an imperial dream definitively defeated in 1923. It was of another time and had nothing to do with the Enosis movement of Cyprus. You only need to think a little to see this. How many people in the outskirts of Ankara voted to be united with Greece in 1919? Was there a plebiscite in Asia Minor asking the Greeks there if they wanted to unite with Greece? In Cyprus on the other hand 93 per cent of GCs, or 75 per cent of the total population chose Enosis.

In Megali Idea you had a series of wars, not just one, between states, in Cyprus there was a guerrilla campaign which Greece supported in a weak and indirect way. There was not a single mainland Greek fighting with EOKA.

Comparing the dream of Megali Idea with the Enosis movement is a manufactured assertion that has no bearing on reality.

My eyewitness friend at university was there with a scholarship from the Turkish foreign ministry. I think he is a reliable source as to the facts he mentioned. He is corroborated by BBC newsreels which clearly show machineguns firing from Kokkina. And also by British military reports of the time. I have them somewhere and will retrieve them for you when I have the time.



Nikitas......Denktas was nearly killed by a man demonstrating a home made grenade launcher to him that exploded. Two men on a small boat were nearly drowned getting to Turkey and back with some guns........In 1963 there were very few proper guns and my mum still tells me of them sitting and listening to the sound of the gunfire in Lefcosa with them identifying the automatic fire of the GCs and then the single shots of the TCs. My father was instructed on how to build these makeshift guns with pipes and other bits. One newsreel of machine guns does not an army make. I would like to see the exact date of that anyway. Even the TC police were disarmed by Makarios.
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Postby zan » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:26 pm

For Birkibrisli...........If Kikapu is a TC then he is too far gone for this.


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Postby T_C » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:27 pm

By the way what I wrote above was NOT intended to stop BK from contributing to this thread and it's not a personal attack on BK either so I hope it's not percieved as such!! I know I sound aggressive but unless I'm really emotional about something I can't seem to say what I want so I just bottle it up till something tips me over the edge and then I'm off...and when I do I REALLY want to get my point accross hence why I end up being so blunt sometimes...but I'm sure you all know that by now. :lol: :lol:
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Postby Sotos » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:32 pm

:roll: Don't the TC always blame us for 63? Why don't you want to listen about your own faults also that came before? Bir for sure will say about the wrong doings of GCs when there are wrong doings from GCs. But hey, good morning to the brainwashed TCs who thought that they never did any mistakes and crimes themselves and that everything is the fault of GCs. Get over your brainwashing and let Bir say both sides of the story.
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Postby zan » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:34 pm

T_C wrote:The thing about BK is that he sometimes seems toooo desperate and I just wish he'd go to the north and see that the people are NOT not desperate for a solution AT ALL! Reading Sener Levent articles doesn't give you a clear enough picture I'm afraid, while I agree he's an admirable man, he's made his name by going against the TRNC and thats all he can do. If he's not doing that then who would Sener Levent be? Would the GCs buy his work if it's not anti-TRNC?!?!? :lol:

It's like Kikapu whos made a name for himself on the forum for being on the GC side. The other day I was reading this section of the forum where Phoenix wrote one of her anti-T-TC essays, Kikapu came in..completely ignored phoenix (like he does with EVERY bit of abuse we recieve) and jumped straight into starting an argument with VP. :roll:

And even though I don't agree with BKs strategy most of the time, I do have more respect for him because I can see that he's doing it for the over all good of everyone in Cyprus which is fine by me. BUT like Kikapu he has a tendency to feel no way about scolding TCs but come GCs turn he quivers in the corner or tries to diffuse the situation quick which absolutely sucks! :evil: It's like he's treding on egg shells and it's enough to show me that HE KNOWS (maybe even subconciously) that he cannot afford to go against GCs no matter how right he is. Theres been many times where BK could of gone on to make his point and instead has opted to keep quiet so as not to upset the GCs. I've said this before but it's these types of actions that are putting the GCs on a pedastal and while they think that they're doing the right thing by arguing with partitionists they're failing the WHOLE of the TC community by doing so.

The partitionists just don't trust the GCs...it's as simple as that and sorry to let you know but MOST TCs deep down are partitionists. They are not "Turks", the Turks are the "annexationists", the partitionists simply do not trust the GC government. The GCs want the North so badly that they will say and do ANYTHING HUMANLY POSSIBLE to get it back, which is why it's not as easy believing the things they say about "unifying" and which is WHY they're always asking for safeguards!

And by the way, I ask again, why is it so hard for people to understand that WE DO NOT TRUST A GC GOVERNMENT!!!! No matter what anyone says or what documents you put infront of us, after all thats happened we do not trust the GC government! It's understandable for GCs not to trust TCs but is it so hard to understand that WE DON'T TRUST THEM?!?!? Someone PLEASE explain that to me?!?

I'm sorry but it gets really tiresome while we tell people that WE DO NOT TRUST THE GC GOVERNMENT...and they keep trying go round the corners and ignoring one of the most important issues. The TCs DO NOT want to be governed by Greek Cypriots just as much as the GCs don't want to be governed by TCs. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT, IT WORKS BOTH WAYS and it's NOT a one sided affair so you can't just blame the TCs for not wanting that.

If theres a TC (other than BK and Kikapu) who wouldn't mind being governed by a GC government then PLEASE PLEASE speak out.




Didn't see this T_C sorry.......I am glad you said it mate. It's good to get it out of your system. :lol: Why the hell should you be ashamed to say what you feel. There was no need for an apology.
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Postby zan » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:38 pm

Sotos wrote::roll: Don't the TC always blame us for 63? Why don't you want to listen about your own faults also that came before? Bir for sure will say about the wrong doings of GCs when there are wrong doings from GCs. But hey, good morning to the brainwashed TCs who thought that they never did any mistakes and crimes themselves and that everything is the fault of GCs. Get over your brainwashing and let Bir say both sides of the story.


He has already said that he will not rub your noses in it. We are still waiting for you guys to be as honest and admit you have hijacked the Cyprus Republic and we can start again. I have also searched the entire internet and have found nothing from you that says anything about the propaganda that has been spread by nationalist Greeks for years. You were happy for hat to happen weren't you. Now let Birkibrisli speak is it.......On your bike. :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Postby Sotos » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:49 pm

We didn't hijack it. You left from it. You wanted partition so you left Cyprus Republic to get your partition. What you want is two countries and you thought that by leaving Republic of Cyprus then Republic of Cyprus would be the Greek Cypriot State and you would then create the Turkish State and have the partition you wanted. You left the Republic of Cyprus to us but you didn't manage to get your Turkish Republic recognized because it was created on our land not yours. You should have thought of it better before you thought it would be so easy for you to have partition.
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Postby Kikapu » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:49 pm

T_C wrote:The thing about BK is that he sometimes seems toooo desperate and I just wish he'd go to the north and see that the people are NOT not desperate for a solution AT ALL! Reading Sener Levent articles doesn't give you a clear enough picture I'm afraid, while I agree he's an admirable man, he's made his name by going against the TRNC and thats all he can do. If he's not doing that then who would Sener Levent be? Would the GCs buy his work if it's not anti-TRNC?!?!? :lol:

It's like Kikapu whos made a name for himself on the forum for being on the GC side. The other day I was reading this section of the forum where Phoenix wrote one of her anti-T-TC essays, Kikapu came in..completely ignored phoenix (like he does with EVERY bit of abuse we recieve) and jumped straight into starting an argument with VP. :roll:

And even though I don't agree with BKs strategy most of the time, I do have more respect for him because I can see that he's doing it for the over all good of everyone in Cyprus which is fine by me. BUT like Kikapu he has a tendency to feel no way about scolding TCs but come GCs turn he quivers in the corner or tries to diffuse the situation quick which absolutely sucks! :evil: It's like he's treding on egg shells and it's enough to show me that HE KNOWS (maybe even subconciously) that he cannot afford to go against GCs no matter how right he is. Theres been many times where BK could of gone on to make his point and instead has opted to keep quiet so as not to upset the GCs. I've said this before but it's these types of actions that are putting the GCs on a pedastal and while they think that they're doing the right thing by arguing with partitionists they're failing the WHOLE of the TC community by doing so.

The partitionists just don't trust the GCs...it's as simple as that and sorry to let you know but MOST TCs deep down are partitionists. They are not "Turks", the Turks are the "annexationists", the partitionists simply do not trust the GC government. The GCs want the North so badly that they will say and do ANYTHING HUMANLY POSSIBLE to get it back, which is why it's not as easy believing the things they say about "unifying" and which is WHY they're always asking for safeguards!

And by the way, I ask again, why is it so hard for people to understand that WE DO NOT TRUST A GC GOVERNMENT!!!! No matter what anyone says or what documents you put infront of us, after all thats happened we do not trust the GC government! It's understandable for GCs not to trust TCs but is it so hard to understand that WE DON'T TRUST THEM?!?!? Someone PLEASE explain that to me?!?

I'm sorry but it gets really tiresome while we tell people that WE DO NOT TRUST THE GC GOVERNMENT...and they keep trying go round the corners and ignoring one of the most important issues. The TCs DO NOT want to be governed by Greek Cypriots just as much as the GCs don't want to be governed by TCs. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT, IT WORKS BOTH WAYS and it's NOT a one sided affair so you can't just blame the TCs for not wanting that.

If theres a TC (other than BK and Kikapu) who wouldn't mind being governed by a GC government then PLEASE PLEASE speak out.


T_C,

You give me too much credit my friend. Pointing out the wrongs done by our side will not be diminished by pointing out the wrongs done by the other side, so whats the use for me to play the role as a "referee" as to what different members write on the forum. I want the best for the TC's, but not at the expense of other Cypriots. That only spells disaster down the road.

I hope I have made my point very clear to you.

When did you ever hear me say that I wanted for us TC's to be ruled by the GC's. I am perhaps the only TC here who is pushing for a True Federation for Cyprus, which I believe is the best solution for everyone.

Have you read this yet. If not, this may be a good time before you start your next post telling me what I want and what I believe in.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=12055
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Postby zan » Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:54 pm

Sotos wrote:We didn't hijack it. You left from it. You wanted partition so you left Cyprus Republic to get your partition. What you want is two countries and you thought that by leaving Republic of Cyprus then Republic of Cyprus would be the Greek Cypriot State and you would then create the Turkish State and have the partition you wanted. You left the Republic of Cyprus to us but you didn't manage to get your Turkish Republic recognized because it was created on our land not yours. You should have thought of it better before you thought it would be so easy for you to have partition.


You can copy and paste that from any greek propaganda site geezer....Save yourself the effort next time...
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Postby Sotos » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm

You are the geezer Zan. You didn't want one country. You didn't want RoC. You wanted some Turkish state on our land. You now want the same also.
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