Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

You can’t just take the majority argument and not add into that the fact that Turkey was master for 400 years and that the territorial waters would not be handed over ever

This just shows the mentality of people like Zan. Not an inch of Cyprus belongs to Turkey my friend. If they had ruled Cyprus against our will and oppressed us for 400 years then what Turks should be doing today would be apologizing for the hardships and suffering they have caused to us, not still think that we are their slaves and that they can own us and our island. The territorial waters of Turkey is 6 or at most 12 miles around the Turkish mainland. Cyprus has its own territory and its own territorial waters and Turkey has no right to expand against us.

I have every sympathy for my GC cousins and even more for those displaced persons that should have received their money long ago when this business came to the point of no return.

Our homeland of 3500 years is not for sale mate. But if that way of solving the problem is fine with you then we would be glad to buy all your properties in Cyprus and then you can move out of the island and problem solved. What do you think about my "sympathetic" proposal?

After all the total number of TCs is less than the number of GC refugees. Plus we are richer and therefore more able to buy your land than you are able to buy our. So it makes this proposal more feasible than yours

What mentality is that Piratis..Reality with the world as it is or your expansionist Megali idea that you are trying to downplay with your friend Nikitas. And don't give me that reclaiming shit because as we have found you did not just appear on Cyprus or any other island for that matter so perhaps Turkey should come and reclaim he island of CYprus that should have been returned to her by the UK. Turkey was in no way able to expand when you Greeks decided on the Megali idea and that is why you tried to destroy her. Shame your "perfect" version of history decides to leave out the essential parts of history to suit you.

What every one should be concerned with is your mentality in which you want to attack and destroy everything Turkish. You put in jeopardy those GCs hat are peaceful and believe that you mean well but you are the most dangerous animal on the island. Just like your EOKA heroes of A and B you are a danger to them and would not hesitate to turn on them also, like you do with Bananiot. The sooner morons like you are out of power the better.


By the way...How are you at writing poetry????? Poetry of pornographic nature that is?????

[EPSILON]

Of course it was wrong of them to seek Enosis,but from our perspective only. For them it was a very legitimate demand. For the first time in all their history they had a real chance of deciding their own fate. They were in overwhelming majority,Cyprus was ruled by Britain which was Greece's ally and protector. Why wouldnt they want to unite with the country they considered to be their motherland? If the roles were reversed and we were in the majority by 82% do you think we would say "it would be nice to be reunited with our motherland ,but we won't ask for that because we must consider the feelings of our fellow Cypriots"??? Have you ever considered this? If not ,why not?

And how would you feel if you were forced to share power equally,nay if you were forced to give a relatively small minority more powers than you got yourself??? And you were forced to sign an agreement which would essentially mean the end of your long cherished dream? And you were told this is the best you can get,take it or leave it...

Bir, again you are just stating the obvious that some people seem unwilling (not unable) to understand.

Cyprus was under foreign rulers for centuries with a great majority of Greek speaking population. This was not unlike the many other Greek islands and territories. Of course Cypriots wanted to finally be liberated. And liberation at that time meant becoming part of the Greek state. In the 50s there were no independent islands in the Mediterranean (out of the 100s of islands in the Mediterranean Cyprus was the first to become independent in 1960 and Malta the second and last in 1964). Liberation = Enosis at that time, and no alternative was given. In fact it was Makarios the first one to propose independence in 1959, and of course he meant a real independence, not what they gave us.

Also it has to be said that in 1955 when the EOKA struggle started the target was not Turkish Cypriots. The target were the British and Greek Cypriots that EOKA suspected that they were traitors (and possibly Grivas used EOKA to take out some GC communists as well)

The conflict between GCs and TCs didn't start until 1957 when TMT was formed and clearly with a help by the British who wanted their divide and rule and pass to the next level.

While the struggle of GCs for union with Greece was legitimate one at the same time I 100% understand the very real fears that TCs had due to what had previously happened to Turkish minorities in Greece (and Greek minorities in Turkey). So I do not blame TCs for siding with the colonialists to defeat our aim of enosis. If I was a TC I would probably do the same.

A true independance with a true democracy would be the ideal solution that would give to Cypriots their freedom and self-determination without granting Enosis for which TCs had valid fears about. Such true independence and true democracy would guarantee the smooth functioning of the Cyprus state, would make Cypriots appreciate the benefits of independence, and would make the small minorities of extremists that existed in both sides ineffective in their efforts to push their own agenda.

Unfortunately what was forced on us was only a partial independence with foreign countries maintaining troops and control over our country. Also the constitution officially divided the Cypriot people between GCs and TCs (ala Ottoman rule), giving to the TC minority way too many gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots (ala Ottoman rule again) in order to reinforce the unstable, polarized environment that was ripe for more conflicts.

The usual response Nikitas is, that even though you know the results you still stick your heads in the sand and hope that it will all go away. The same rubbish you give us about how we don't exist. You have a partner in Cyprus and that is us...We can live as two equal entities or you can drown in the sand......Your crap will not be tolerated.

My dear ZAN, Allah may help you to achieve your state in North Cyprus.But NOT AS PARTNERS OF SOUTH-Just a separate state with the wall in between.It will take you only 20 years to ask ENOSIS with South.

Our God lets help our leadership to accept partition - full partition-no discounts-no cooperation-no partnership.Take what you have stolen in 1583 and 1974 and we will just wait for you in the corner-till the day you will decide that you have some basic differences with your mother country -when you will discover (THE TCS) that after 430 years in Cyprus you are not relatives to Mongolian coming Turkish Nation.

[Eric dayi]

Eric has said:

"Hey Nikitas, I called you a LIAR but have not seen you reply to defend yourself. Do you agree that you are a liar or do you want me to prove your lies. It might be in your interest to come clean and apologise what you lied about instead of being proven a liar. What do you say?"

Your accusations do not make sense.

I said that in the 50s most Greek Cypriots had never met a mainland Greek. You say this is a lie. Well let me put it in perspective. My father met my mother when he was a volunteer officer in the British Royal Navy during World War II. She was the first mainland Greek the people in our village had ever met in the flesh. The same goes for most Cypriots as there were no mainland Greeks living in Cyprus and not many Cypriots traveled to Greece. Back in the 50s the concept of foreign travel, holidays etc was still uknown. I would say the same goes for TCs and mainland Turks. You call me a liar, presumably you have the opposite view so go ahead and give your proof.

Greece gave no substantial material help to the EOKA struggle. There were no shiploads of arms. As the weapons captured by the British prove, they were mostly old weapon in poor condition. EOKA people went to Crete (this I know from personal research) and collected a motley of arms from civilians because they could not get them from the official Greek state. In Cyprus itself there was an attempt to copy British sten guns and to manufacture grenades and pipe bombs, precisely because there was no reliable supply from Greece. This you can see documented in the EOKA museum in Nicosia and in works of foreign authors on home made firearms, like Smith and others. You say this is a lie, give us your proof.

Just shouting LIAR at someone becaue you do not like what they say is not constructive, and shouting back is not dialogue.

When you talk about ENOSIS you are not just talking abut the 50's. Apart from that it is a fact that the Brits let a hell of a lot of Greeks settle in Cyprus and that's why you became a majority in such high numbers in a very short time. From 1960 to 1963 a shit load of Greek soldiers were brought into Cyprus to guarantee a swift and successful ENOSIS bringing with them shit load of guns and ammo.

You said "Greece encouraged the Enosis struggle but it did not actively help it beyond sending some surplus small arms." and that's why I called you a liar and you are lying, Greece was there in Cyprus murdering us TCs for ENOSIS, you know it and we know it so stop lying.

[zan]

Of course it was wrong of them to seek Enosis,but from our perspective only. For them it was a very legitimate demand. For the first time in all their history they had a real chance of deciding their own fate. They were in overwhelming majority,Cyprus was ruled by Britain which was Greece's ally and protector. Why wouldnt they want to unite with the country they considered to be their motherland? If the roles were reversed and we were in the majority by 82% do you think we would say "it would be nice to be reunited with our motherland ,but we won't ask for that because we must consider the feelings of our fellow Cypriots"??? Have you ever considered this? If not ,why not?

And how would you feel if you were forced to share power equally,nay if you were forced to give a relatively small minority more powers than you got yourself??? And you were forced to sign an agreement which would essentially mean the end of your long cherished dream? And you were told this is the best you can get,take it or leave it...

Bir, again you are just stating the obvious that some people seem unwilling (not unable) to understand.

Cyprus was under foreign rulers for centuries with a great majority of Greek speaking population. This was not unlike the many other Greek islands and territories. Of course Cypriots wanted to finally be liberated. And liberation at that time meant becoming part of the Greek state. In the 50s there were no independent islands in the Mediterranean (out of the 100s of islands in the Mediterranean Cyprus was the first to become independent in 1960 and Malta the second and last in 1964). Liberation = Enosis at that time, and no alternative was given. In fact it was Makarios the first one to propose independence in 1959, and of course he meant a real independence, not what they gave us.

Also it has to be said that in 1955 when the EOKA struggle started the target was not Turkish Cypriots. The target were the British and Greek Cypriots that EOKA suspected that they were traitors (and possibly Grivas used EOKA to take out some GC communists as well)

The conflict between GCs and TCs didn't start until 1957 when TMT was formed and clearly with a help by the British who wanted their divide and rule and pass to the next level.

While the struggle of GCs for union with Greece was legitimate one at the same time I 100% understand the very real fears that TCs had due to what had previously happened to Turkish minorities in Greece (and Greek minorities in Turkey). So I do not blame TCs for siding with the colonialists to defeat our aim of enosis. If I was a TC I would probably do the same.

A true independance with a true democracy would be the ideal solution that would give to Cypriots their freedom and self-determination without granting Enosis for which TCs had valid fears about. Such true independence and true democracy would guarantee the smooth functioning of the Cyprus state, would make Cypriots appreciate the benefits of independence, and would make the small minorities of extremists that existed in both sides ineffective in their efforts to push their own agenda.

Unfortunately what was forced on us was only a partial independence with foreign countries maintaining troops and control over our country. Also the constitution officially divided the Cypriot people between GCs and TCs (ala Ottoman rule), giving to the TC minority way too many gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots (ala Ottoman rule again) in order to reinforce the unstable, polarized environment that was ripe for more conflicts.

The usual response Nikitas is, that even though you know the results you still stick your heads in the sand and hope that it will all go away. The same rubbish you give us about how we don't exist. You have a partner in Cyprus and that is us...We can live as two equal entities or you can drown in the sand......Your crap will not be tolerated.

My dear ZAN, Allah may help you to achieve your state in North Cyprus.But NOT AS PARTNERS OF SOUTH-Just a separate state with the wall in between.It will take you only 20 years to ask ENOSIS with South.

Our God lets help our leadership to accept partition - full partition-no discounts-no cooperation-no partnership.Take what you have stolen in 1583 and 1974 and we will just wait for you in the corner-till the day you will decide that you have some basic differences with your mother country -when you will discover (THE TCS) that after 430 years in Cyprus you are not relatives to Mongolian coming Turkish Nation.

Done...Where do I sign......As long as you don't wait for me with machine guns that is

May your god go with you!!!!!

[EPSILON]

Eric has said:

When you talk about ENOSIS you are not just talking abut the 50's. Apart from that it is a fact that the Brits let a hell of a lot of Greeks settle in Cyprus and that's why you became a majority in such high numbers in a very short time. From 1960 to 1963 a shit load of Greek soldiers were brought into Cyprus to guarantee a swift and successful ENOSIS bringing with them shit load of guns and ammo.

.

My friend you are leaving in a paranoid world. Greeks became majority because of Greek soldiers!!!!!

Greeks my friend are the local habitans of the Island since times when Turkey was not in the map.!!!!

[Piratis]

You can’t just take the majority argument and not add into that the fact that Turkey was master for 400 years and that the territorial waters would not be handed over ever

This just shows the mentality of people like Zan. Not an inch of Cyprus belongs to Turkey my friend. If they had ruled Cyprus against our will and oppressed us for 400 years then what Turks should be doing today would be apologizing for the hardships and suffering they have caused to us, not still think that we are their slaves and that they can own us and our island. The territorial waters of Turkey is 6 or at most 12 miles around the Turkish mainland. Cyprus has its own territory and its own territorial waters and Turkey has no right to expand against us.

I have every sympathy for my GC cousins and even more for those displaced persons that should have received their money long ago when this business came to the point of no return.

Our homeland of 3500 years is not for sale mate. But if that way of solving the problem is fine with you then we would be glad to buy all your properties in Cyprus and then you can move out of the island and problem solved. What do you think about my "sympathetic" proposal?

After all the total number of TCs is less than the number of GC refugees. Plus we are richer and therefore more able to buy your land than you are able to buy our. So it makes this proposal more feasible than yours

What mentality is that Piratis..Reality with the world as it is or your expansionist Megali idea that you are trying to downplay with your friend Nikitas. And don't give me that reclaiming shit because as we have found you did not just appear on Cyprus or any other island for that matter so perhaps Turkey should come and reclaim he island of CYprus that should have been returned to her by the UK. Turkey was in no way able to expand when you Greeks decided on the Megali idea and that is why you tried to destroy her. Shame your "perfect" version of history decides to leave out the essential parts of history to suit you.

What every one should be concerned with is your mentality in which you want to attack and destroy everything Turkish. You put in jeopardy those GCs hat are peaceful and believe that you mean well but you are the most dangerous animal on the island. Just like your EOKA heroes of A and B you are a danger to them and would not hesitate to turn on them also, like you do with Bananiot. The sooner morons like you are out of power the better.


By the way...How are you at writing poetry????? Poetry of pornographic nature that is?????

So the oppressed people liberating themselves from the Ottomans was expansionism according to Zan!

Wow Zan, the Greeks, the Bulgarians, the Romanians, the Egyptians etc have all expanded against the poor Turks. Man you have to go and punish all those bastards! How did they even dare to think of the crime called freedom??

[EPSILON]

You can’t just take the majority argument and not add into that the fact that Turkey was master for 400 years and that the territorial waters would not be handed over ever

This just shows the mentality of people like Zan. Not an inch of Cyprus belongs to Turkey my friend. If they had ruled Cyprus against our will and oppressed us for 400 years then what Turks should be doing today would be apologizing for the hardships and suffering they have caused to us, not still think that we are their slaves and that they can own us and our island. The territorial waters of Turkey is 6 or at most 12 miles around the Turkish mainland. Cyprus has its own territory and its own territorial waters and Turkey has no right to expand against us.

I have every sympathy for my GC cousins and even more for those displaced persons that should have received their money long ago when this business came to the point of no return.

Our homeland of 3500 years is not for sale mate. But if that way of solving the problem is fine with you then we would be glad to buy all your properties in Cyprus and then you can move out of the island and problem solved. What do you think about my "sympathetic" proposal?

After all the total number of TCs is less than the number of GC refugees. Plus we are richer and therefore more able to buy your land than you are able to buy our. So it makes this proposal more feasible than yours

What mentality is that Piratis..Reality with the world as it is or your expansionist Megali idea that you are trying to downplay with your friend Nikitas. And don't give me that reclaiming shit because as we have found you did not just appear on Cyprus or any other island for that matter so perhaps Turkey should come and reclaim he island of CYprus that should have been returned to her by the UK. Turkey was in no way able to expand when you Greeks decided on the Megali idea and that is why you tried to destroy her. Shame your "perfect" version of history decides to leave out the essential parts of history to suit you.

What every one should be concerned with is your mentality in which you want to attack and destroy everything Turkish. You put in jeopardy those GCs hat are peaceful and believe that you mean well but you are the most dangerous animal on the island. Just like your EOKA heroes of A and B you are a danger to them and would not hesitate to turn on them also, like you do with Bananiot. The sooner morons like you are out of power the better.


By the way...How are you at writing poetry????? Poetry of pornographic nature that is?????

So the oppressed people liberating themselves from the Ottomans was expansionism according to Zan!

Wow Zan, the Greeks, the Bulgarians, the Romanians, the Egyptians etc have all expanded against the poor Turks. Man you have to go and punish all those bastards! How did they even dare to think of the crime called freedom??

Pirates- thanks for this helpful massage however pls avoid to use words like freedom and democracy - the meaning is unknown to a military controlled areas or countries

[denizaksulu]

A very well laid out overall picture of Cyprus's recent history Piratis.

Now wait for the usual responses.

Nikitas, I will respond to your remark re: Piratis response:

He claims that

"The conflict between GCs and TCs didn't start until 1957 when TMT was formed and clearly with a help by the British who wanted their divide and rule and pass to the next level.

If there was no thought of Enosis in the GC mind, would TMT be formed? Would it have been necessary? What do you think?

Thank you

A simple answer will do.

[zan]

You can’t just take the majority argument and not add into that the fact that Turkey was master for 400 years and that the territorial waters would not be handed over ever

This just shows the mentality of people like Zan. Not an inch of Cyprus belongs to Turkey my friend. If they had ruled Cyprus against our will and oppressed us for 400 years then what Turks should be doing today would be apologizing for the hardships and suffering they have caused to us, not still think that we are their slaves and that they can own us and our island. The territorial waters of Turkey is 6 or at most 12 miles around the Turkish mainland. Cyprus has its own territory and its own territorial waters and Turkey has no right to expand against us.

I have every sympathy for my GC cousins and even more for those displaced persons that should have received their money long ago when this business came to the point of no return.

Our homeland of 3500 years is not for sale mate. But if that way of solving the problem is fine with you then we would be glad to buy all your properties in Cyprus and then you can move out of the island and problem solved. What do you think about my "sympathetic" proposal?

After all the total number of TCs is less than the number of GC refugees. Plus we are richer and therefore more able to buy your land than you are able to buy our. So it makes this proposal more feasible than yours

What mentality is that Piratis..Reality with the world as it is or your expansionist Megali idea that you are trying to downplay with your friend Nikitas. And don't give me that reclaiming shit because as we have found you did not just appear on Cyprus or any other island for that matter so perhaps Turkey should come and reclaim he island of CYprus that should have been returned to her by the UK. Turkey was in no way able to expand when you Greeks decided on the Megali idea and that is why you tried to destroy her. Shame your "perfect" version of history decides to leave out the essential parts of history to suit you.

What every one should be concerned with is your mentality in which you want to attack and destroy everything Turkish. You put in jeopardy those GCs hat are peaceful and believe that you mean well but you are the most dangerous animal on the island. Just like your EOKA heroes of A and B you are a danger to them and would not hesitate to turn on them also, like you do with Bananiot. The sooner morons like you are out of power the better.


By the way...How are you at writing poetry????? Poetry of pornographic nature that is?????

So the oppressed people liberating themselves from the Ottomans was expansionism according to Zan!

Wow Zan, the Greeks, the Bulgarians, the Romanians, the Egyptians etc have all expanded against the poor Turks. Man you have to go and punish all those bastards! How did they even dare to think of the crime called freedom??

You are so short sighted that you cannot even see hat you are about to contradict yourself . Independence = ENOSIS...ENOSIS with whom....Greece....Megali idea = Greece...Megali idea= expansionism.

[Eric dayi]

Eric has said:

When you talk about ENOSIS you are not just talking abut the 50's. Apart from that it is a fact that the Brits let a hell of a lot of Greeks settle in Cyprus and that's why you became a majority in such high numbers in a very short time. From 1960 to 1963 a shit load of Greek soldiers were brought into Cyprus to guarantee a swift and successful ENOSIS bringing with them shit load of guns and ammo.

.

My friend you are leaving in a paranoid world. Greeks became majority because of Greek soldiers!!!!!

I never thought that you would be just another moron Epsilon, where did I say what you claim about the Greek soldiers above, hmmmm?

Greeks my friend are the local habitans of the Island since times when Turkey was not in the map.!!!!

It is also a fact that that the Greek population both in Greece and in Cyprus is receding because your birth rate is less then your death rate and our is on the rise because we are having more babies than you lot. By rights your population should be less then what it was in the 40's/50's but instead has grown to around 800,000 so can you explain this phenomenon maybe pal?

BTW, you may have been the "local habitans" but you never owned Cyprus. Next, you'll be telling us that just because you lived in a house longer than the owner the house is yours and you don't have to give it back or pay rent any more. Your logic stinks mate, stinks of ENOSIS and the wish to make us TCs second class citizens in our own country. I take it you know what you can do with your logic or do you really want me to tell you?