Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Of course I understand mate. The war is when both sides are armed and kill each other. This is what happened during the inter-communal conflict.

The killing of civilians is what the Turks did. Just invaded with large armies and slaughtered everybody they found in front of them.

[zan]

Of course I understand mate. The war is when both sides are armed and kill each other. This is what happened during the inter-communal conflict.

The killing of civilians is what the Turks did. Just invaded with large armies and slaughtered everybody they found in front of them.

ETHNIC CLEANSING CAMPAIGN AGAINST TURKISH CYPRIOTS

At the beginning of 1950s, Greece attempted to pull the United Nations into the play it staged, under the cover of the "self-determination" right, in order to realize "Enosis". United Nations, however, was not fooled by this intrigue, and after discussing the issue at a few sessions, it called in 1958, on all the parties concerned to reach a just settlement through negotiations to be held amongst themselves. Following the negotiations, the two communities in Cyprus reached a compromise in 1959, with the help of efforts by Turkey, Greece and Britain.

Constitution of the Republic of Cyprus", prepared in line with the Zurich-London Agreements, as well as the Treaties of Establishment, Alliance and Guarantee, prepared under the Constitution, became operative on 10 August 1960. In this way, the Republic of Cyprus, based on the principles of partnership and political equality of the two separate communities having two distinct religions, languages and cultures, was born.

Regarding the Republic of Cyprus as a stepping-stone to "ENOSIS", Orthodox Christian Cypriots speeded up their "Enosist" activities. These acts of provocation were in the form of terrorist acts aimed at the Turks. Their goal was to provoke the Turks on the island to rebel and make the world believe that the Cyprus Constitution was unworkable.

Under this scenario, all the articles in the Constitution blocking the road to "Enosis" would be removed through planned Constitutional amendments and, in this way, the road would be opened to the island's union with Greece.

Constitutional order brought about by the Zurich-London Agreements was only short-lived. On 30 November 1963, President of the Republic of Cyprus Archbishop Makarios unilaterally amended those 13 articles of the Cyprus Constitution that encompassed the rights granted to the Turks of the island, on the grounds that they created bottlenecks in implementation. This was, of course, nothing but an alibi. The main aim was to create a basis for "Enosis".

On 24 December 1963, 24 Turks were killed and 40 injured. Let us read a section from the book entitled "Genocide Files" (1997) written by British researcher-writer Harry Scott Gibbons so that we can follow the continuation of the events recorded in the world history as "Dark Christmas".

"On Christmas Eve, 1963, there were 120 Turks living in the mixed hamlet of Ayios Vasilios straddling the road between Nicosia and Myrtou in the north-west.

"Some time that evening, cars and trucks drove into the village from the direction of Nicosia. Armed men poured out of the vehicles. They had a brief discussion at the coffee shop at one end of the village, then they moved purposefully towards the Turkish quarter.

"Shots rang out, riffle butts smashed against locked doors, people were (indiscriminately) dragged into the streets.

"A 70-yr-old Turk was awakened by the sounds of his front splintering. Tottering out of his bedroom, he found several young armed men inside the house.

" 'Have you any children' they asked. Bewildered, he replied: 'Yes'.

" 'Send them outside' he was ordered.

"His two sons, 19 and 17 years old, and his grandaughter, aged 10, hastily dressed and followed the gunmen outside.

"They were lined up outside the cottage wall. The gunmen, without another word, coolly machine-gunned them to death.

"In another house, a 13-yr-old boy had his hands tied behind his knees and was thrown on the floor. While the house was being ransacked, his raptorskicked and abused him. Then a pistol was placed at the back of his head and he was shot.

"Altogether, 12 Turks were massacred that evening in Ayios Vasilios"

Gibbons also writes about yet another incident that occurred in the Kumsal quarter of Nicosia at about the same hours the same day. At this grim case, three young children, aged between 2-5, as well as their mother were machine-gunned and killed in cold blood while being covered helplessly by their mother in a bathtub in their house.

The reason why Turkish Cypriots turn down a close relationship with Greek Cypriots is the hatred caused by these killings. Furthermore, in the light of the fact that Greek Cypriots arm themselves against the Turks despite the passage of 24 years, and that the Commander of the Greek Cypriot National Guard provokes his soldiers with such remarks as: "We'll suck the blood of the Turks" no-one should expect the Turkish Cypriots to embrace the Greek Cypriots.

Salahi HILAL was one of the eye-witnesses and survivors of the massacres committed by Greek Cypriots with the aim of annihilating the Turkish Cypriots. Hilal is still alive and lives in the TRNC. He recounted a tragic incident to the foreign press, after he had managed to escape from the hands of Greek Cypriots, as follows:

"Greeks and Greek Cypriots who captured me as a prisoner drew daggers from their waists and made deep cuts on my arms and flesh parts of my shoulders. Meanwhile, a Greek army officer in plain clothes approached them, asking them: 'Is there anyone among you who has not drunk the Turkish blood?' Some of them replied, 'We have not'. Upon this, 10-15 people, including the Greek officer begun to lick the blood oozing through the my cut flesh. They took me out while I was about to pass out. I saw a friend of mine outside, as their prisoner. In the meantime, a Greek Cypriot pulled the pin of his hand-grenade and hurled on to their Turkish prisoner. The poor man was cut into pieces. That moment I did not want to live any longer."

Until Turkey arrived in the island in 1974 by exercising her guarantorship and stopped the Greek Cypriot murderers, thousands of Turkish Cypriots had been killed with hair-raising atrocity.

Parties seeking a settlement in Cyprus should always keep in mind that if the Turkish troops withdraw from the Island, Cyprus will revert back to pre-1974, that more blood will be shed than in Bosnia and Kosovo and that the resulting tension will also drive Turkey into a war with Greece that no-one would be able to stop.

Those who, with the instigation of the Greek officials and the priests of the Greek Cypriot Orthodox Church, had attacked and mercilessly killed the Turkish Cypriots like wild beasts, are currently ruling the so-called 'Republic of Cyprus' and arming themselves so as to carry on with their murders. The only guarantee of the Turkish Cypriots is the Turkish soldiers who the Greek Cypriots want to send away.

[Piratis]

Where your arguments end, your lies and propaganda starts, right zan?

[zan]

:roll:

Where your arguments end, your lies and propaganda starts, right zan?

Really...Were you there then....Can you confirm that it is a lie or it just doesn't fit into your lies........

Go on...Give us one of those poems you are so good at so we can see what is waiting for us TCs when we unite........

[repulsewarrior]

...and your point is?

because you want to be painted as a victim you use this example of the madness, to paint me as your aggressor, do you think i drink blood? but the issue zan is not what a "Greek" can do to a "Turk" or vice versa. It is a struggle of good, and how evil has its way. You cannot continue to promote fear, thinking that this is a resistance to the changes we must make in ourselves. And i won't bother punching holes in your history, too much of that has gone on already.

zan, i would like it if you came up with a 'story' that mirrors this tragedy against "Turks", to give it the clear perspective it needs; a brutal crime against a "Greek" by "Turks", or a "Greek" who saved "Turks" from a certian demise. as a writer, i suggest that you will make better arguments toward your consideration. i'd like you to point out that this mistrust is new, "mixed villages" existed, for hundreds of years they grew; a fact which is also true and just as important. i wish you to speak for a higher order where we do not exploit the dead for our own end, and we respect the fact through our own ignorance, they died. we who are still alive can give, and give lovingly. it is our duty, if we wish to end the circles of subjugation which provide this misery through our own acts, to thrive.

[Eric dayi]

Here we go again.

Eric I should remind you that in Cyprus the biggest slaughtering in history was commited by the Turks in 1570 when within days they killed 20.000 people in Nicosia alone. That was more than 10% of the population of Cyprus killed within days, and therefore could be defined as genocide. Since then the next biggest slaughtering in Cyprus happened in 1974 when the Turks, again, killed several 1000s of Cypriots and ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands.

Now you tell me when TCs where "genocided"? In your dream?

TCs in total lost a few 100s people, in a period when they also killed a few 100s of GCs.

If GCs killing some 100s of TCs is an "attempted genocide" then why when the TCs during the same conflict killed some 100s of GCs is not an "attempted genocide"?

These kind of gross exaggerations where you are trying to present yourselves as the only victims of the Cyprus problem are totally ridicuous my friend.

Mr Gramaphone, I am sick to death of your constant use of the above phrases and mis-use of the word 'genocide'. It is only in your sick mind to call those 'killings' in 1571, as genocide. If you find proof that is was a genocide, ok. But until then, call it 'war losses'.

Please tell me that the massacre of the inhabitants of Jerusalem during the first crusade was not greater than the losses at the siege of Nicosia.

The figures for the Jerusalem massacre range from 70, 000 to 130, 000 men, women and children. I offer you the lower figure as Medievel and middle age writers are not too reliable. I am too polite to call you a liar, lets just say its a distortion of the truth to suit your own arguments.

Have you read Jerrys link yet. Funny they talk about Cypriot pirates. When I mentioned them to you, you couldnt stop laughing.

You people are funny. You do not complain when Eric uses the word "genocide" to refer to the few 100s of TCs that got killed in a conflict where some 100s of GCs where killed as well, but you object to the word when we are talking about a massacre of 20.000 people

No one can help you if you do not realise difference between the way, and the reason, why I use the word genocide and the way you use it. I am not going to explain it to you either, I'll just let you carry on making an idiot of yourself over and over again.

One thing I will tell you though, what you claim is 500 years old but what I claim happened in our life time. I will not be held responsible for what happened 500 years ago and will not apologise for someone else's doings, I am only concerned about what happened in my life time and what you Greeks and GCs tried to do to me/us TCs.

For me to apologise for what happened 500 years ago which I had no control of at all would be like apologising for every murder that happens in this world. If you demand that from me then I demand that you Greeks apologise for genociding the Trojans and also demand that you accept the fact that you GCs and Greeks attempted to genocide us TCs and apologise for it.

[zan]

...and your point is?

because you want to be painted as a victim you use this example of the madness, to paint me as your aggressor, do you think i drink blood? but the issue zan is not what a "Greek" can do to a "Turk" or vice versa. It is a struggle of good, and how evil has its way. You cannot continue to promote fear, thinking that this is a resistance to the changes we must make in ourselves. And i won't bother punching holes in your history, too much of that has gone on already.

zan, i would like it if you came up with a 'story' that mirrors this tragedy against "Turks", to give it the clear perspective it needs; a brutal crime against a "Greek" by "Turks", or a "Greek" who saved "Turks" from a certian demise. as a writer, i suggest that you will make better arguments toward your consideration. i'd like you to point out that this mistrust is new, "mixed villages" existed, for hundreds of years they grew; a fact which is also true and just as important. i wish you to speak for a higher order where we do not exploit the dead for our own end, and we respect the fact through our own ignorance, they died. we who are still alive can give, and give lovingly. it is our duty, if we wish to end the circles of subjugation which provide this misery through our own acts, to thrive.

Enough of that has gone on to warrant me having a little redress for our cause sir. Our story has been suppressed for long enough and denied still. have no problem in saying, and in fact have said in the past but have not been afforded the chance recently to do so, that GCs suffered and many were mistreated in horrible ways. We the small people of Cyprus have had to bare the brunt of all that has gone on in the name of ENOSIS and Taksim. The point that I make is that those in power are still fighting those wars and the fact that the Cyprus Republic is still in the hands of those that pushed for ENOSIS and that is even more important than the refugee problem and that of holding 37% of our own country. Peace, in terms of unification, cannot be achieved while that is still the case. Only partition is on the cards at this point. Any idea put on the table, such as yours, is rejected instantly by the "RoC" because of it. So who did what to whom is only relevant in those terms and the fact that I am fed up with being seen as the aggressor.

[Piratis]

The reason I am telling you about what happened in 1570 is because then was the only known genocide in the history of Cyprus.

The Turks then killed 20.000 people within days, which was the 10% of the population of Cyprus.

In recent times the biggest slaughtering was done again by Turkey in 1974 when they killed some 1000s of Cypriots. And then you come to call a conflict where a few 100s of GCs and a few 100s of TCs died as "genocide".

If there was a genocide during that time then the population of TCs would have decreased. Not only it did not decrease, but it increased both in absolute numbers and as a percentage of the total population. So cut the lies.

Here is a quote from a Council of Europe report:

According to the censuses which took place in Cyprus before the factual partition of the island, the Greek Cypriot community amounted to 447,901 (78,2%) in 1960, and to 498,511 (78,9%) in 1973. The Turkish Cypriot community numbered 103,822 (18,1%) people in 1960, and 116 000 (18,4%) in 1973. The total population of Cyprus was 572,707 in 1960 and 631,778 in 1973 (see Appendix 3, Table 1). An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

So when did the "genocide" you talk about happen? In your dream?

[repulsewarrior]

...exactly my point zan

but the old farts will die, are we prepared to do anything better?

I understand your point, and i respect you for your stamina as much as for the quality of your work
but, please don't make me forget that you see this picture as a whole, and that although it appears to be heading
somewhere, this could change, and we should be prepared to change toward the better.

[zan]

...exactly my point zan

but the old farts will die, are we prepared to do anything better?

I understand your point, and i respect you for your stamina as much as for the quality of your work
but, please don't make me forget that you see this picture as a whole, and that although it appears to be heading
somewhere, this could change, and we should be prepared to change toward the better.

Always ready but not holding my breath.