Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Gul told a news conference in Ankara:

If our government’s policies had been carried out before, the Greek Cypriots would not now be a full member of the EU

This confirms that the whole Annan plan thing, that was rushed to us to be voted before May 1st 2004, had as an aim to stop Cyprus from entering the EU.

The policies of Turkey have as an aim the solution of their problem that was created when it became clear that Cyprus would enter the EU.

This proves that Turks will make moves only when they are forced to, and not out of goodwill. (if they had goodwill, they would have made moves during the last 30 years).

Therefore, Papadopoulos tactics are the correct ones. In the end, turkey will have to choose between Cyprus and EU. This might take time, but unlike what some say, time is now in our favor.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

This confirms that the whole Annan plan thing, that was rushed to us to be voted before May 1st 2004, had as an aim to stop Cyprus from entering the EU.

Look at it from this angle my friend, what he is actually saying is if we did not mess things up in Copenhagen then GCs would have worked harder for a solution eg Annan Plan 5 that would have made them happy as well and to which they would have voted YES. But due to errors made by previous Turkish Governments it was to late and Southern Cyprus leant on EU support for solving the issue rather than wanting a solution prior to entry. GC side was not sincere in working to a comprehensive solution becasue they felt that they could reject this plan and wait for the EU to solve the issue and obtain maximilist demands.

This proves that Turks will make moves only when they are forced to, and not out of goodwill. (if they had goodwill, they would have made moves during the last 30 years).

I would have agreed with you previous to AKP government in Turkey and CTP in Northern Cyprus, I have never seen Turkey so proactive in the run up to the referendum, which we have to acknowledge as being great diplomacy, even Tassos was knocked for six because he was banking on Denktash leaving the negotiating table in NY as he had done on many occassions in the past. Never under estimate Turkish diplomacy.

Therefore, Papadopoulos tactics are the correct ones. In the end, turkey will have to choose between Cyprus and EU. This might take time, but unlike what some say, time is now in our favor.

Mr Papadop has lost the picture in my opinion, he is not trusted on a grand scale and has made many enemies in the run up to the referendum and the subsequent result.
When evaluating Turkeys EU aspirations you have to look at the big picture, there are many other countries that do not want Turkey in the EU and they may use Southern Cyprus as an escape goat to keep Turkey out. How will this effect there stance towards you guys???? and a solution??? very negatively I believe, its in your best interests to want Turkey aspiring to enter EU so that you can use some leverage otherwise you will have a Turkey that doesnt give a damn about a solution.
The waiting game working in your favour do you really think so, I dont see it that way, are you willing to wait 15 years until Turkey enters EU? if she enters, time will slowly bring the removal of isolation and even if it is long shot recognition (GC administrations stance helps us in this respect) so all in all time I think works in our favour as we are willing to wait and develop further both economically and politically with the help of EU UK USA UN & Turkey.

[insan]

Gul told a news conference in Ankara:

If our government’s policies had been carried out before, the Greek Cypriots would not now be a full member of the EU

This confirms that the whole Annan plan thing, that was rushed to us to be voted before May 1st 2004, had as an aim to stop Cyprus from entering the EU.

The policies of Turkey have as an aim the solution of their problem that was created when it became clear that Cyprus would enter the EU.

This proves that Turks will make moves only when they are forced to, and not out of goodwill. (if they had goodwill, they would have made moves during the last 30 years).

Therefore, Papadopoulos tactics are the correct ones. In the end, turkey will have to choose between Cyprus and EU. This might take time, but unlike what some say, time is now in our favor.

Pick a single line from Gul's statement and base your funny arguments on it. It does not make any sense, Piratis. The matter of the fact is that the defacto government of South Cyprus aka GC administration should not be made an EU memeber before the Cyprus problem resolved. That's what Gul stated in his speech.

The one who needs to be forced is the defacto government of south Cyprus, aka Greek Cypriot administration.

Time is up, game over, Piratis. Prepare yourself for partition.

[pantelis]

This proves that Turks will make moves only when they are forced to, and not out of goodwill. (if they had goodwill, they would have made moves during the last 30 years).

They said: "give us a date, and we will sign the protocol by October"

The EU gave them the "date".

Now they say: "Give us something more and we will sign the protocol, but it will have to be approved by our "parliament also".

Pirati,

Was the Annan plan approved by the Turkish Parliament? No!
Do you have any idea why?
It is the same old game of the Turkish "diplomacy". They bargain with you, they bring you to agree to "meet them" at a certain point and then they bring in objections of the TSK or the parliament, to push you further back and back and back from the original point. It never ends.

Example:
The Turkish government agreed to let the US thru, to attack Iraq from the north. The parliament rejected it at the last minute.

Conclussion: Never trust a Turkish politician. His word is not worth a cent.

Turkey and the never ending story of simply asking and receiving, with giving nothing in return.

Sooner or later, the EUropeans will realize that Turkey does not belong in the EU. It is simple as that!

[insan]

Conclussion: Never trust a Turkish politician. His word is not worth a cent.

Trust your politicians, Pantelis. They are your guardian angels. We know how deep is your love and trust for your own politicians as a consequence of nepotism.

There's no way out Pantelo. The defacto recognition of "TRNC" is on the way coming soon.

[pantelis]

The matter of the fact is that the defacto government of South Cyprus aka GC administration should not be made an EU member before the Cyprus problem resolved. That's what Gul stated in his speech.

Unlike Turkey, the EU keeps her promises.
The deal was clear to all, from the very beginning:
"Solution or not, the ROC would be accepted into the EU.
Turkey chose to put an un-acceptable plan in front of the Greek Cypriots, which resulted in a gigantic “NO”.
Now Turkey complains...........

[insan]

The matter of the fact is that the defacto government of South Cyprus aka GC administration should not be made an EU member before the Cyprus problem resolved. That's what Gul stated in his speech.

Unlike Turkey, the EU keeps her promises.
The deal was clear to all, from the very beginning:
"Solution or not, the ROC would be accepted into the EU.
Turkey chose to put an un-acceptable plan in front of the Greek Cypriots, which resulted in a gigantic “NO”.
Now Turkey complains...........

Yes, a last minute goal because of the unawareness and incapability of Turkish Ruling elite. The EU membership of defacto government of South Cyprus is the goal of Hellenic Ruling Elite. We all know how Grece blackmailed EU to accept defacto government of South Cyprus EU membership. However, the game won't end with the victory of Hellenic Ruling Elite. Soon this game will end up with partition. Perhaps this is what whole world and Cypriots are working for consciously or unconsciously..

[Alexandros Lordos]

Gul told a news conference in Ankara:

If our government’s policies had been carried out before, the Greek Cypriots would not now be a full member of the EU

This confirms that the whole Annan plan thing, that was rushed to us to be voted before May 1st 2004, had as an aim to stop Cyprus from entering the EU.

Hmm, no Piratis, I tend to agree with Viewpoint's interpretation. Gul just meant that the Annan Plan would have been accepted by now, and it would be the UCR rather than the GC-led RoC that would be a member of the EU. Don't forget Gul was just trying to placate an angry Turkish audience (and pass the blame onto the previous government) for the fact that Turkey will have to "semi-recognise" the RoC in a few months time ... it's just "politician talk", in other words, pay no attention ...

Soon this game will end up with partition.

There's no way out Pantelo. The defacto recognition of "TRNC" is on the way coming soon.

Time is up, game over, Piratis. Prepare yourself for partition.

OK, don't shout, we heard you ...

Though to be honest with you, I don't see it. Everybody knows that permanently partitioning Cyprus will give the GCs a massive motive to permanently veto Turkey's EU accession. So long as the US, the UK and others from whom you expect recognition want Turkey in the EU, don't expect an early "game over via recognition": The Americans and Europeans will do everything in their power to solve the Cyprus Problem, by forcing the two sides back on the negotiating table.

[Saint Jimmy]

Gul told a news conference in Ankara:

If our government’s policies had been carried out before, the Greek Cypriots would not now be a full member of the EU

This confirms that the whole Annan plan thing, that was rushed to us to be voted before May 1st 2004, had as an aim to stop Cyprus from entering the EU.

I don't see how you infer that conclusion from what Gul said. Maybe you should explain your rationale on this.

The policies of Turkey have as an aim the solution of their problem that was created when it became clear that Cyprus would enter the EU.

Did you ever think that Turkey would be aiming at solving our problem for us? The fact that they felt they had a problem to face (the RoC entering the EU) was what we should have taken advantage of, but, in my opinion, we didn't.

This proves that Turks will make moves only when they are forced to, and not out of goodwill. (if they had goodwill, they would have made moves during the last 30 years).

I'm guessing this is the cornerstone of our disagreements. This batching of 'Turks' under one 'definition' ('Turks have no goodwill') can't possibly hold water. The lack of moves in the last 30 years is not Gul's, Erdogan's or Talat's fault. When these guys took over, we came as close as ever to a solution. What was different one day before Erdogan and Gul won the elections in Turkey? Not much. Yet the new 'no solution is no solution' hadn't appeared yet, until they came to office. It's not a matter of 'Turks', it's a matter of political perspective.

Therefore, Papadopoulos tactics are the correct ones. In the end, turkey will have to choose between Cyprus and EU. This might take time, but unlike what some say, time is now in our favor.

How do you come to that conclusion (that T-Pap's policy is right)? Because 'Turks are born liars and deceiptful', T-Pap is right in stalling the solution process into oblivion? Don't get it.
And, are you willing to take such a risk? If Turkey chooses Cyprus over the EU, what do we do? Do we say 'oh, to hell with that, at least we've got our RoC intact'?

[magikthrill]

Never under estimate Turkish diplomacy.

From my experience in studying international relations countries either have good diplomatic skills or good military power. Rarely do they have both. Can you guess on which scale Turkey lies?

Never trust a Turkish politician. His word is not worth a cent.

I don't think ANY politician should be trusted. Not just the Turkish ones.

Time is up, game over, Piratis. Prepare yourself for partition.

You know insan, by saying it over and over and over again you might convince yourself its going to happen but it doesnt really mean it is.

After the referenda last year there were "rumors" about TRNC recognition and there were actual talks about giving money to the TCs and opening the borders to allow TCs to trade.

ALmost a year later and the only change I see is that people dont really care that GCs voted NO and TCs YES.