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YOU MUST KNOW THIS MAN - MUHAMMAD (PEACE BE UPON HIM)

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Postby cyprusgrump » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:08 am

QAMERSLAND wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:
QAMERSLAND wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Well, well.
Eleven posts by Qamersland and they address absolutely none of the points and questions I have just raised!


Hold on my dear friend Tim. I will answer you also. why are you in hurry? we are here to discuss all friendly.

I’m surprised that your all-seeing-all-knowing god hasn’t tapped you on the shoulder and told you that you are wasting valuable time posting here. There must be plenty of gullible people that you could be working on instead… :roll:


I am not wasting time at all. my duty is to convey message to people whether they are gullible or genius. if i am decieving the people why dont you accept the challege of Quran and produce your prove? so people will understand what is the truth and what is not? write a book which will sound like unbelieveable but people after 1400 years will verify it.

there have not been a single verse of quran proved wrong. there are some critics of Islam who speak out of context and intrept the worng meaning of Quran to melign Islam but as much as they are trying to malign Islam. Islam is spreading more fast.

check from your sources that it is the realty that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

in only USA every day 400 to 500 people are reverting to Islam. will you say americans and europeans are gullible people?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think you need to check out all the other bizarre religions, sects and cults that Americans are joining before presenting it as proof in some way that those joining islam are nut guillible!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Southerner » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:34 pm

cyprusgrump wrote:
QAMERSLAND wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:
QAMERSLAND wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Well, well.
Eleven posts by Qamersland and they address absolutely none of the points and questions I have just raised!


Hold on my dear friend Tim. I will answer you also. why are you in hurry? we are here to discuss all friendly.

I’m surprised that your all-seeing-all-knowing god hasn’t tapped you on the shoulder and told you that you are wasting valuable time posting here. There must be plenty of gullible people that you could be working on instead… :roll:


I am not wasting time at all. my duty is to convey message to people whether they are gullible or genius. if i am decieving the people why dont you accept the challege of Quran and produce your prove? so people will understand what is the truth and what is not? write a book which will sound like unbelieveable but people after 1400 years will verify it.

there have not been a single verse of quran proved wrong. there are some critics of Islam who speak out of context and intrept the worng meaning of Quran to melign Islam but as much as they are trying to malign Islam. Islam is spreading more fast.

check from your sources that it is the realty that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world.

in only USA every day 400 to 500 people are reverting to Islam. will you say americans and europeans are gullible people?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think you need to check out all the other bizarre religions, sects and cults that Americans are joining before presenting it as proof in some way that those joining islam are nut guillible!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


I wonder if Zakir (AKA KARZI) is aware that more people join the Mormom church everyday than join the muslims.
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Creation myth

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:24 pm

I see QAMERSLAND is still determined to ignore all my questions and instead is coming up with the tired old argument that every development in modern science and technology can be found in the Quran. So be it.

For one thing, I raised a question about this many pages ago - it went unanswered as usual - which was:

If, as you claim, the Quran contains all the knowledge obtained by modern science, why have the Arabs living in the Arabian desert who have supposedly had this knowledge at their fingertips for 1400 years failed to make any scientific or technological breakthroughs.? Why are they in the pitiful position today of having to bring in Westerners to run their oil and natural gas industries because they are totally incapable of doing it for themselves?

As a related question, why is it that whenever there is a new scientific discovery or technological development Islamic scholars rush to the Quran and manage to dig up a verse that supposedly predicts this new discovery. If the Quran is such a treasure store of scientific knowledge, why not prove it and predict some discovery or invention that will be made in the near future?

What about the cases where the Quran gets it spectacularly wrong? There is a myth in all the monotheist religions that the heavens and earth were created in seven days. Modern science now tells us that there was a gap of about 20 billion years between the time the heavens appeared (i.e. the big bang) and the time the planet Earth appeared. The figure of seven days in the creation myth is out by a factor of 100 000 000 000 times. Some error!

Finally, to prove that I can also cut and paste, here is an interesting analysis of what the Quran has to say about the creation of the universe. I am indebted to Jochen Katz for this:

Qur'an Contradiction:

Six or eight days of creation?

Sura 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59 clearly say that God created "the heavens and the earth" in six days. But then there is also the following passage:



2 Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in TWO Days
And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds.
+
He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it,
and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measured therein all things
4 to give them nourishment in due proportion, in FOUR Days
in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance).

Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth:
"Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly."
They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
+
2 So He completed them as seven firmaments in TWO Days,
and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command.
And We adorned the lower heaven with lights,
and (provided it) with guard.
Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.
-- Sura 41:9-12 (Yusuf Ali)

= 8 altogether these are EIGHT Days.

Two days for the creation of the earth, then four days to fill the earth with mountains, blessings and nourishment for all its inhabitants, and in the end two more days to create the seven heavens and create the stars in them. This adds up to 2+4+2 = 8 days in contradiction to the 6 days mentioned in the other verses.

The structure is very clear: These are the three "layers" which are created bottom up:


*** FIRMAMENTS [the sky, the "roof" over the earth] in 2 days
----------
:-) BLESSINGS [filling the earth with everything needed for life] in 4 days
---------
=== The EARTH [the foundation] completed in 2 days


Yusuf Ali starts out his commentary with "This is a difficult passage..." before he tries to explain away the problem. But it just doesn't look like the first two days are part of the four day period since the second period presupposes the existence of the earth which is now to be filled after it had been created.

Had the first period been four and the second two days, the second could be included in the first, since "filling the earth" is part of "creating the earth", but the other way around doesn't make sense. The earth that isn't existing yet cannot be filled. But mathematically it is just not possible to include four days in two days. And it is very clear from the text that the first two days are connected with "creating" the next four days are characterized by "putting ON it", "bestowing on it", "giving them".

That verse 9 and 10 describe different stages is further supported by the text structure since the two phases are "separated" by the second line of verse 9 asking a rhetorical question to the listener/reader based on what has been done in this first stage. Before it goes on to look at the second stage of creation.

That is how the structure of the text presents itself (to the reader without an agenda to fit it into six days).

The full explanation from Yusuf Ali's footnote 4470 is:


The Commentators understand the "four Days" in verse 10 to include the two Days in verse 9, so that the total for the universe comes to six Days. This is reasonable, because the processes described in verses 9 and 10 form really one series. In one case it is the creation of the formless matter of the earth; in the other case it is the gradual evolution of the form of the earth, its mountains and seas, and its animal and vegetable life, with the "nourishment in due proportion", proper to each.
As explained, I don't think this explanation is acceptable. But I would welcome a clearer presentation based on the text by anybody who can give one.

Yusuf Ali reports this as THE opinion of the commentators. For the major commentators there does not even seem to exist the possibility of this second attempt below given by some Muslims to reconcile the number of days from eight to six:


Here, the commentators generally have been confronted with this question: If it is admitted that the creation of the earth took two days and the setting up of the mountains and placing of the provisions and blessings in it took four days, and the creation of the heavens, took another two days, the total number of the days would be eight, whereas at several places in the Quran Allah has said that the creation of the earth and heavens took six days in all. (For example, see 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59). This question can easily be answered as follows:
The two days of the creation of earth are not separable from the two days in which this universe as a whole was created. If we consider the following verses, we see that in them the creation of both the earth and the heavens has been mentioned together, and then it has been stated that Allah made the seven heavens in two days. These seven heavens imply the whole universe, one part of which is also our earth. Then, when like the other countless stars and planets of the universe this earth also took the shape of a unique globe within two days, Allah began to prepare it for animate creatures, and in four days created in it all those provisions, which have been mentioned in the above verse.

It is interesting to note that this second theory is sharply contradictory to the (usual) one given by Yusuf Ali, who includes the first two days in the second period of four days.

Why did Yusuf Ali not think that explanation was at least worth mentioning? In other difficult passages he does give several options on how different scholars have explained it. The very fact that there exist contradictory explanations defies the above remark that this problem could "easily" be explained this way.

Anyway. Above I have expressed my doubts about the validity of Yusuf Ali's "harmonization", So let me explain why this explanation also falls short of being satisfactory for several reasons:

The beginning of verse 11 is translated by Pickthall and Shakir by "THEN turned he to the heavens..." which does for sure indicate a temporal sequence. For example Pickthal:


Then He turned to the heaven, which was only smoke at that time. He said to the heaven and the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly."
It is specifically said, that the heavens were only smoke "at that time" (as this translation says it) or "when IT was smoke" or "and IT was vapor" (as others say) [i.e. no stars and planets formed together yet out of the smoke], which is stated in contrast to the earth whose formation was already finished as described in the immediately preceeding verses. If all of it were to be smoke and the forming of the earth and the heavens is a parallel action, then it would have to be something like "He turned to the heavens and the earth, when THEY were only like smoke ..." but that is not so, the smoke stage explicitely only refers to the heaven while the earth is addressed as a "finished" entity when God calls heaven and earth together. The earth was finished, only the firmament or "roof" was left to be finished up, and "all of it to be pulled together".

Is that not a fair interpretation?

That the earth is finished before God turns to the creation of the heaven is confirmed in Sura 2:29 which says,


He it is Who hath created for you all that is on earth.
Then He turned to the heaven, and made them into seven heavens.
This makes again clear that all that is in/on the earth is created BEFORE God turns to the creation of the seven heavens. God cannot create things ON the earth before the earth itself is in existence. The Qur'an explicitly denies the second of the above proposed theories trying to solve the problem by identifying the first and the last two days.

Having gotten a Muslim's response that the word "thumma" translated above as "then" can also mean "and" and not necessarily indicates an "after" in time, I want to respond that in this verse, the meaning is crystal clear to be a sequence. It doesn't even depend on the word "then" but the verb itself indicates the sequence of doing one thing and then TURNING to the next. If several tasks are done parallel then there is no "turning" from on to the other.

Furthermore, there is yet to be found a verse in the Qur'an where "thumma" does signify a "parallelism" and not a "sequence".

The existance of contradictory explanations is always the result of confusion and the sign that no theory is really fitting the data. If one explanation would really make full sense, then all others would have been abandoned long ago. This is not the case. The problem is still there and there is no solution that really captures the features of the text as it is given into a coherent interpretation.

I acknowledge that I am not able to read the Arabic and I investigated this passage from the English translations only but the translators are experts in the Arabic language and usually one can trust them. I invite anybody who can give a clear exposition based on the (Arabic) text which makes good sense and solves the problem. But reading several translations which all agree on the basic features of the text, I do feel that my interpretation is coherent with the text, and all would be fine if this were the only text in the Qur'an about creation of heavens and earth, but since other Qur'an passages say that it was six days and not eight, therefore it is indeed a rather obvious problem.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But this scenario also has its scientific problems. If we want to believe that the earth was fashioned and filled with life first before the "smoke" was gathered into forming the heavens [stars, planets] then this contradicts very clearly all (current) scientific theories of astronomy.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Further there is a hadith in Sahih Muslim, Chapter MCLV, The beginning of creation and the creation of Adam, Hadith No. 6707:


Abu Huraira reported that Allah's Messenger (mpbuh) took hold of my hands and said: Allah the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and He caused animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam (pbuh) after 'Asr on Friday; the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, ie. between afternoon and night.
From Saturday to Friday there are seven days. Now this doesn't say that these are all the days of creation, but there are at least seven days, maybe eight or more. But it does disagree without reconciliation with the account of the six day creation. And within these seven days Allah hasn't done anything on the heavens yet.

Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 3, Number 1041 & 1042 also mention the creation of Adam on Friday. This does not square with the interpretation of days as "long periods". A Friday is not longer than a day and the other weekdays are not either.

In Tafsir Al-Jalalyn we find this explanation:



41:9 2 days meaning Sunday and Monday
41:10 4 days meaning Tuesday and Wednesday

[fourth day instead of four days? he declares it to be two days, clearly
in order to avoid just the above pointed out difficulty. He probably
means that God created "the earth AND what is in it" in 4 days, just as
Yusuf Ali reports it as the general opinion of the commentators.]

41:12 2 days meaning Thursday and Friday.


In any case, we do see that both the above quoted hadith as well as this tafsir take the days literally, contradicting several "modern Muslims" who rather want to interpret these days as "periods" or "epochs". But obviously Muhammad himself as well as the early commentators did not see it that way.

The tafsir in contradiction to the hadith seems to confess that Saturday is the Sabbath [day of rest] like in the Bible.
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Postby cyprusgrump » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:38 pm

Eight days!

What was he, a Cypriot builder? :D
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Postby Southerner » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:59 pm

it is a well known scientific fact that man was not on this earth 5 billion years ago yet Zakir Qamersland (AKA Karzi) claims that the sun is 5 billion years old and was created in the same week the God created evrything else.

According to a recent reply of his Quamerslands christian or surname is Zakir;, zakir turned into an anagram is Karzi which is servicemens terminlogy for the shithouse.

With the crap he keeps coming out with I cannot think of anything more appropriate. :lol: :shock: :wink: :roll: :lol:
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Postby Tim Drayton » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:48 pm

Southerner wrote:it is a well known scientific fact that man was not on this earth 5 billion years ago yet Zakir Qamersland (AKA Karzi) claims that the sun is 5 billion years old and was created in the same week the God created evrything else.

According to a recent reply of his Quamerslands christian or surname is Zakir;, zakir turned into an anagram is Karzi which is servicemens terminlogy for the shithouse.

With the crap he keeps coming out with I cannot think of anything more appropriate. :lol: :shock: :wink: :roll: :lol:


Southerner,
The Zakir here is just the author of an article that our friend QAMERSLAND has copied and pasted, I am afraid.

I found the following advert by a person looking for work in Cyprus at this site:

http://www.cyprus-shopping.com/jobs_in_ ... chive2.htm

Date:
5/27/2003
Yasu, thanks to visit my advertisement, My Name Is Wasim and i belong to pakistan, i am looking for job according to my qualification.i am married in cyprus and have permission to work. if you want know more about me email: [email protected]

Sound familiar?

So, Wasim, if you are the Qamersland who is posting here and you are from Pakistan, shame on you for not acknowledging that your compatriots are treated little better than animals by Gulf Arabs when they go to that part of the world to work.
More to the point, if you like Sharia law and think that countries like Saudi Arabia set shining examples for the rest of humanity, why not go and work there? Saudi and the rest of the Gulf Countries employ large numbers of Pakistani workers. I am sure I could easily arange a job for you in Qatar with the contacts I have there. Just PM me.
Even more to the point, if you love Sharia law so much, you now have it in Pakistan, so why did you feel the need to leave?
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Postby Southerner » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:30 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Southerner wrote:it is a well known scientific fact that man was not on this earth 5 billion years ago yet Zakir Qamersland (AKA Karzi) claims that the sun is 5 billion years old and was created in the same week the God created evrything else.

According to a recent reply of his Quamerslands christian or surname is Zakir;, zakir turned into an anagram is Karzi which is servicemens terminlogy for the shithouse.

With the crap he keeps coming out with I cannot think of anything more appropriate. :lol: :shock: :wink: :roll: :lol:


Southerner,
The Zakir here is just the author of an article that our friend QAMERSLAND has copied and pasted, I am afraid.

I found the following advert by a person looking for work in Cyprus at this site:

http://www.cyprus-shopping.com/jobs_in_ ... chive2.htm

Date:
5/27/2003
Yasu, thanks to visit my advertisement, My Name Is Wasim and i belong to pakistan, i am looking for job according to my qualification.i am married in cyprus and have permission to work. if you want know more about me email: [email protected]

Sound familiar?

So, Wasim, if you are the Qamersland who is posting here and you are from Pakistan, shame on you for not acknowledging that your compatriots are treated little better than animals by Gulf Arabs when they go to that part of the world to work.
More to the point, if you like Sharia law and think that countries like Saudi Arabia set shining examples for the rest of humanity, why not go and work there? Saudi and the rest of the Gulf Countries employ large numbers of Pakistani workers. I am sure I could easily arange a job for you in Qatar with the contacts I have there. Just PM me.
Even more to the point, if you love Sharia law so much, you now have it in Pakistan, so why did you feel the need to leave?


Yes I misread the post, only 71 virgins for me. but I still think the western definition of Karzi suits quamersland.
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Postby QAMERSLAND » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:01 pm

Southerner wrote:
QAMERSLAND wrote:there have not been a single verse of quran proved wrong. there are some critics of Islam who speak out of context and intrept the worng meaning of Quran to melign Islam but as much as they are trying to malign Islam. Islam is spreading more fast.

As you say the koran is open to however anyone wishes to interpret it, the koran is so ambiguous I would challenge any two theologians to provide the same definition to most of what is written

I have seen several examples where the koran has been proven to be what it is:-

A book that plagiarised the Bible.
A religion that borrowed/taken evrything that suited its purpose from other cultures.
Creation of man for his own benefit.
Opressor women
Denier of human rights
Supporting sex crimes against women
etc etc etc


i think you need to read carefully what i say? naver said that Qur'an(not koran) is open for interpret for anyone however someone wishes. i said that the best way to understand the Quran is to learn Arabic and understand it from its original text. not a single translation can be 100 % correct but can come close to it.

i know that you are getting all information from those anti Islamic websites and i am not surprised to know that there are many like you who does not have the knowledge about Islam believe on those false claims


QUR’AN PLAGIARIZED FROM THE BIBLE


Many critics allege that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) himself was not the author of the Qur’an but he learnt it and/or plagiarised (copied or adapted) it from other human sources or from previous scriptures or revelations.

1. MUHUMMAD LEARNT THE QUR’AN FROM A ROMAN BLACKSMITH WHO WAS A CHRISTIAN


Some Pagans accused the Prophet of learning the Qur’an from a Roman Blacksmith, who was a Christian staying at the outskirts of Makkah. The Prophet very often used to go and watch him do his work. A revelation of the Qur’an was sufficient to dismiss this charge - the Qur’an says in Surah An-Nahl chapter 16 verse 103:

"We know indeed that they say, ‘It is a man that teaches him,’ The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear."
[Al-Qur’an 16:103]

How could a person whose mother tongue was foreign and could hardly speak little but of poor broken Arabic be the source of the Qur’an which is pure, eloquent, fine Arabic? To believe that the blacksmith taught the Prophet the Qur’an is some what similar to believing that a Chinese immigrant to England, who did not know proper English, taught Shakespeare.

2. MUHUMMAD (PBUH) LEARNT FROM WARAQA - THE RELATIVE OF KHADIJAH (RA)


Muhummad’s (pbuh) contacts with the Jewish and Christian Scholars were very limited. The most prominent Christian known to him was an old blind man called Waraqa ibn-Naufal who was a relative of the Prophet’s first wife Khadijah (r.a.). Although of Arab descent, he was a convert to Christianity and was very well versed with the New Testament. The Prophet only met him twice, first when Waraqa was worshipping at the Kaaba (before the Prophetic Mission) and he kissed the Prophet’s forehead affectionately; the second occasion was when the Prophet went to meet Waraqa after receiving the first revelation. Waraqa died three years later and the revelation continued for about 23 years. It is ridiculous to assume that Waraqa was the source of the contents of the Qur’an.
3. PROPHET’S RELIGIOUS DISCUSSIONS WITH THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS


It is true that the Prophet did have religious discussions with the Jews and Christians but they took place in Madinah more than 13 years after the revelation of the Qur’an had started. The allegation that these Jews and Christians were the source is perverse, since in these discussions Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was performing the roles of a teacher and of a preacher while inviting them to embrace Islam and pointing out that they had deviated from their true teachings of Monotheism. Several of these Jews and Christians later embraced Islam.
4. THE PROPHET LEARNT THE QUR’AN FROM THOSE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS THAT HE MET OUTSIDE ARABIA


All historical records available show that Muhummad (pbuh) had made only three trips outside Makkah before his Prophethood:
At the age of 9 he accompanied his mother to Madinah.

Between the age of 9 and 12, he accompanied his uncle Abu-Talib on a business trip to Syria.

At the age of 25 he led Khadija’s Caravan to Syria.

It is highly imaginary to assume that the Qur’an resulted from the occasional chats and meetings with the Christians or Jews from any of the above three trips.

5. LOGICAL GROUNDS TO PROVE THAT THE PROPHET DID NOT LEARN THE QUR’AN FROM JEWS OR CHRISTIANS


The day-to-day life of the Prophet was an open book for all to see. In fact a revelation came asking people to give the Prophet (pbuh) privacy in his own home. If the Prophet had been meeting people who told him what to say as a revelation from God, this would not have been hidden for very long.

The extremely prominent Quraish nobles who followed the Prophet and accepted Islam were wise and intelligent men who would have easily noticed anything suspicious about the way in which the Prophet brought the revelations to them - more so since the Prophetic mission lasted 23 years.

The enemies of the Prophet kept a close watch on him in order to find proof for their claim that he was a liar - they could not point out even a single instance when the Prophet may have had a secret rendezvous with particular Jews and Christians.

It is inconceivable that any human author of the Qur’an would have accepted a situation in which he received no credit whatsoever for originating the Qur’an.
Thus, historically and logically it cannot be established that there was a human source for the Qur’an.

6. MUHUMMAD (PBUH) WAS AN ILLITERATE


The theory that Muhummad (pbuh) authored the Qur’an or copied from other sources can be disproved by the single historical fact that he was illiterate.

Allah testifies Himself in the Qur’an
In Surah Al-Ankabut chapter no.29 verse 48

"And thou was not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: in that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted."
[Al-Qur’an 29:48]

Allah (swt) knew that many would doubt the authenticity of the Qur’an and would ascribe it to Prophet Muhummad (pbuh). Therefore Allah in His Divine Wisdom chose the last and final Messenger to be an ‘Ummi’, i.e. unlettered, so that the talkers of vanity would not then have the slightest justification to doubt the Prophet. The accusation of his enemies that he had copied the Qur’an from other sources and rehashed it all in a beautiful language might have carried some weight, but even this flimsy pretence has been deprived to the unbeliever and the cynic.

Allah reconfirms in the Qur’an in Surah Al A’raf chapter 7 verse 157:

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures) in the Law and the Gospel"

The prophecy of coming of the unlettered Prophet (pbuh) is also mentioned in the Bible in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12.

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned."
[Isaiah 29:12]

The Qur’an testifies in no less than four different places that the Prophet (pbuh) was illiterate. It is also mentioned in Surah A’raf chapter 7 verse 158 and in Surah Al-Jumu’a chapter 62 verse 2.

7. ARABIC VERSION OF THE BIBLE WAS NOT PRESENT


The Arabic version of the Bible was not present at the time of Prophet Muhummad (pbuh). The earliest Arabic version of the Old Testament is that of R. Saadias Gaon of 900 C.E. - more than 250 years after the death of our beloved Prophet. The oldest Arabic version of the new Testament was published by Erpenius in 1616 C.E. - about a thousand years after the demise of our Prophet.

8. SIMILARITIES IN THE QUR’AN AND THE BIBLE DUE TO COMMON SOURCE


Similarities between the Qur’an and the Bible does not necessarily mean that the former has been copied from the latter. In fact it gives evidence that both of them are based on a common third source; all divine revelations came from the same source - the one universal God. No matter what human changes were introduced into some of these Judeo-Christian and other older religious scriptures that had distorted their originality, there are some areas that have remained free from distortion and thus are common to many religions.

It is true that there are some similar parallels between the Qur’an and the Bible but this is not sufficient to accuse Muhummad (pbuh) of compiling or copying from the Bible. The same logic would then also be applicable to teachings of Christianity and Judaism and thus one could wrongly claim that Jesus (pbuh) was not a genuine Prophet (God forbid) and that he simply copied from the Old Testament.

The similarities between the two signify a common source that is one true God and the continuation of the basic message of monotheism and not that the later prophets have plagiarised from the previous prophets.

If someone copies during an examination he will surely not write in the answer sheet that he has copied from his neighbour or Mr. XYZ. Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) gave due respect and credit to all the previous prophets (pbut). The Qur’an also mentions the various revelations given by Almighty God to different prophets.

9. MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN THE TAURAH, ZABOOR, INJEEL AND QUR’AN


Four revelations of Allah (swt) are mentioned by name in the Qur’an: the Taurah, the Zaboor, the Injeel and the Qur’an.

Taurah, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Moosa (a. s.) i.e. Moses (pbuh).
Zaboor, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Dawood (a.s.) i.e. David (pbuh).
Injeel, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Isa (A.S.) ie. Jesus (pbuh).
‘Al-Qur’an’, the last and final Wahi i.e. revelation given to the last and final Messenger Muhammad (pbuh).

It is an article of faith for every Muslim to believe in all the Prophets of God and all revelations of God. However, the present day Bible has the first five books of the Old Testament attributed to Moses and the Psalms attributed to David. Moreover the New Testament or the four Gospels of the New Testament are not the Taurah, the Zaboor or the Injeel, which the Qur’an refers to. These books of the present day Bible may partly contain the word of God but these books are certainly not the exact, accurate and complete revelations given to the prophets.

The Qur’an presents all the different prophets of Allah as belonging to one single brotherhood; all had a similar prophetic mission and the same basic message. Because of this, the fundamental teachings of the major faiths cannot be contradictory, even if there has been a considerable passage of time between the different prophetic missions, because the source of these missions was one: Almighty God, Allah. This is why the Qur’an says that the differences which exist between various religions are not the responsibility of the prophets, but of the followers of these prophets who forgot part of what they had been taught, and furthermore, misinterpreted and changed the scriptures. The Qur’an cannot therefore be seen as a scripture which competes with the teachings of Moses, Jesus and the other prophets. On the contrary, it confirms, completes and perfects the messages that they brought to their people.

Another name for the Qur’an is the ‘The Furqan’ which means the criteria to judge the right from the wrong, and it is on the basis of the Qur’an that we can decipher which part of the previous scriptures can be considered to be the word of God.

10. SCIENTIFIC COMPARISON BETWEEN QUR’AN AND BIBLE


If you glance through the Bible and the Qur’an you may find several points which appear to be exactly the same in both of them, but when you analyse them closely, you realise that there is a difference of ‘chalk and cheese’ between them. Only based on historical details it is difficult for someone who is neither conversant with Christianity or Islam to come to a firm decision as to which of the scriptures is true; however if you verify the relevant passages of both the scriptures against scientific knowledge, you will yourself realize the truth.

Creation of the Universe in Six Days
As per the Bible, in the first book of Genesis in Chapter One, the universe was created in six days and each day is defined as a twenty-four hours period. Even though the Qur’an mentions that the universe was created in six ‘Ayyaams’, ‘Ayyaam’ is the plural of years; this word has two meanings: firstly, it means a standard twenty-four hours period i.e. a day, and secondly, it also means stage, period or epoch which is a very long period of time.

When the Qur’an mentions that the universe was created in six ‘Ayyaams’, it refers to the creation of the heavens and the earth in six long periods or epochs; scientists have no objection to this statement. The creation of the universe has taken billions of years, which proves false or contradicts the concept of the Bible which states that the creation of the Universe took six days of twenty-four hour durations each.

Sun Created After the Day
The Bible says in chapter 1, verses 3-5, of Genesis that the phenomenon of day and night was created on the first day of creation of the Universe by God. The light circulating in the universe is the result of a complex reaction in the stars; these stars were created according to the Bible (Genesis chapter 1 verse 14 to 19) on the fourth day. It is illogical to mention the result that is the light (the phenomenon of day and night) was created on the first day of Creation when the cause or source of the light was created three days later. Moreover the existence of evening and morning as elements of a single day is only conceivable after the creation of the earth and its rotation around the sun. In contrast with the contents of the Bible on this issue, the Qur’an does not give any unscientific sequence of Creation. Hence it is absolutely absurd to say that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) copied the passages pertaining to the creation of the universe from the Bible but missed out this illogical and fantastic sequence of the Bible.

Creation of the Sun, The Earth and the Moon
According to the Bible, Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verses 9 to 13, the earth was created on the third day, and as per verses 14 to 19, the sun and the moon were created on the fourth day. The earth and the moon emanated, as we know, from their original star, the Sun. Hence to place the creation of the sun and the moon after the creation of the earth is contrary to the established idea about the formation of the solar system.

Vegetation Created on the third day and Sun on the fourth day
According to the Bible, Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verses 11-13, vegetation was created on the third day along with seed-bearing grasses, plants and trees; and further on as per verses 14-19, the sun was created on the fourth day. How is it scientifically possible for the vegetation to have appeared without the presence of the sun, as has been stated in the Bible?

If Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) was indeed the author of the Qur’an and had copied its contents from the Bible, how did he manage to avoid the factual errors that the Bible contains? The Qur’an does not contain any statements which are incompatible with scientific facts.

The Sun and the Moon both Emit light
According to the Bible both the sun and the moon emit their own light. In the Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verse 16 says, "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night".

Science tells us today that the moon does not have its own light. This confirms the Qur’anic concept that the light of the moon is a reflected light. To think that 1400 years ago, Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) corrected these scientific errors in the Bible and then copied such corrected passages in the Qur’an is to think of something impossible.

11. ADAM (PBUH), THE FIRST MAN ON EARTH, LIVED 5,800 YEARS AGO

As per the genealogy of Jesus Christ given in the Bible, from Jesus through Abraham (pbuh) to the first man on earth i.e. Adam (pbuh), Adam appeared on the earth approximately 5800 years ago:


1948 years between Adam (pbuh) and Abraham (pbuh)
Approximately 1800 years between Abraham (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh)
2000 years from Jesus (pbuh) till today
These figures are further confused by the fact that the Jewish calendar is currently on or about 5800 years old.

There is sufficient evidence from archaeological and anthropological sources to suggest that the first human being on earth was present tens of thousands of years ago and not merely 5,800 years ago as is suggested by the Bible.
The Qur’an too speaks about Adam (pbuh) as the first man on earth but it does not suggest any date or period of his life on earth, unlike the Bible - what the Bible says in this regard is totally incompatible with science.

12. NOAH (PBUH) AND THE FLOOD


The Biblical description of the flood in Genesis chapter 6, 7 and 8 indicates that the deluge was universal and it destroyed every living thing on earth, except those present with Noah (pbuh) in the ark. The description suggests that the event took place 1656 years after the creation of Adam (pbuh) or 292 years before the birth of Abraham, at a time when Noah (pbuh) was 600 years old. Thus the flood may have occurred in the 21st or 22nd Century B.C.

This story of the flood, as given in the Bible, contradicts scientific evidence from archaelogical sources which indicate that the eleventh dynasty in Egypt and the third dynasty in Babylonia were in existence without any break in civilisation and in a manner totally unaffected by any major calamity which may have occurred in the 21st century B.C. This contradicts the Biblical story that the whole world had been immersed in the flood water. In contrast to this, the Qur’anic presentation of the story of Noah and the flood does not conflict with scientific evidence or archaeological data; firstly, the Qur’an does not indicate any specific date or year of the occurance of that event, and secondly, according to the Qur’an the flood was not a universal phenomenon which destroyed complete life on earth. In fact the Qur’an specifically mentions that the flood was a localised event only involving the people of Noah.

It is illogical to assume that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) had borrowed the story of the flood from the Bible and corrected the mistakes before mentioning it in the Qur’an.

13. MOSES (PBUH) AND PHARAOH OF THE EXODUS


The story of Moses (pbuh) and the Pharaoh of the Exodus are very much identical in the Qur’an and the Bible. Both scriptures agree that the Pharaoh drowned when he tried to pursue Moses (pbuh) and led the Israelites across a stretch of water that they crossed. The Qur’an gives an additional piece of information in Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 92:

"This day shall We save thee in thy body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! But verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!"
[Al-Qur’an 10:92]

Dr. Maurice Bucaille, after a thorough research proved that although Rameses II was known to have persecuted the Israelites as per the Bible, he actually died while Moses (pbuh) was taking refuge in Median. Rameses II’s son Merneptah who succeeded him as Pharaoh drowned during the exodus. In 1898, the mummified body of Merneptah was found in the valley of Kings in Egypt. In 1975, Dr. Maurice Bucaille with other doctors received permission to examine the Mummy of Merneptah, the findings of which proved that Merneptah probably died from drowning or a violent shock which immediately preceeded the moment of drowning. Thus the Qur’anic verse that we shall save his body as a sign, has been fulfilled by the Pharaohs’ body being kept at the Royal Mummies room in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.

This verse of the Qur’an compelled Dr. Maurice Bucaille, who was a Christian then, to study the Qur’an. He later wrote a book ‘The Bible, the Qur’an and Science’, and confessed that the author of the Qur’an can be no one else besides God Himself. Thus he embraced Islam.

14. QUR’AN IS A BOOK FROM ALLAH


These evidences are sufficient to conclude that the Qur’an was not copied from the Bible, but that the Qur’an is the Furqaan - ‘the Criteria’ to judge right from wrong and it should be used to decipher which portion of the Bible may be considered as the Word of God.

The Qur’an itself testifies in Surah Sajda chapter 32 verse 1 to 3

Alif Laam Meem.

(This is) the revelation of the Book in which there is no doubt – from the Lord of the Worlds.

Or do they say, ‘He has forged it’? Nay, it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee: in order that they may receive guidance."
[Al-Qur’an 32:1-3]

i hope you will be satisfied
QAMERSLAND
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Postby QAMERSLAND » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:44 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Southerner wrote:it is a well known scientific fact that man was not on this earth 5 billion years ago yet Zakir Qamersland (AKA Karzi) claims that the sun is 5 billion years old and was created in the same week the God created evrything else.

According to a recent reply of his Quamerslands christian or surname is Zakir;, zakir turned into an anagram is Karzi which is servicemens terminlogy for the shithouse.

With the crap he keeps coming out with I cannot think of anything more appropriate. :lol: :shock: :wink: :roll: :lol:


Southerner,
The Zakir here is just the author of an article that our friend QAMERSLAND has copied and pasted, I am afraid.

I found the following advert by a person looking for work in Cyprus at this site:

http://www.cyprus-shopping.com/jobs_in_ ... chive2.htm

Date:
5/27/2003
Yasu, thanks to visit my advertisement, My Name Is Wasim and i belong to pakistan, i am looking for job according to my qualification.i am married in cyprus and have permission to work. if you want know more about me email: [email protected]

Sound familiar?

So, Wasim, if you are the Qamersland who is posting here and you are from Pakistan, shame on you for not acknowledging that your compatriots are treated little better than animals by Gulf Arabs when they go to that part of the world to work.
More to the point, if you like Sharia law and think that countries like Saudi Arabia set shining examples for the rest of humanity, why not go and work there? Saudi and the rest of the Gulf Countries employ large numbers of Pakistani workers. I am sure I could easily arange a job for you in Qatar with the contacts I have there. Just PM me.
Even more to the point, if you love Sharia law so much, you now have it in Pakistan, so why did you feel the need to leave?



i dont know to who you are finding and why? rawk find someone ahmed from limasol mosque and and now you found some one wasim from pakistan. you are wasting your time beacause i am none of them.
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Postby Bill » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:10 pm

Well quimers I think Southerner has a valid point ~ perhaps you should have a spell in Saudi ~ it might just open your eyes a little and teach you that all the rubbish you have spouted over the last few weeks has no bearing or meaning in the real on the ground ( not found in a book ) Muslim world to which you seem to have little knowledge of .

To quote a well known Arab saying translated into English .

One up the bum ~ no harm done .

Bill
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