Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

Re QAMERSLAND’S reply:

“I had told you that it was for that time when the slavery were very common and it does not apply to housemaids in the present time. Islam encourages to marry and give all rights as wife then have sexual relationship not as in western world. Go to a pub or disco or cabaret and get girl and have sexual relationship and pay her for using her body. I had posted all how Muslims should treat there salves if they have but I think you didn’t read it. Islam encourages to free slaves and I had challenged you to find me a single verse from Qur'an which says that Muslims should keep slaves or it encourages slavery but you failed and started to ask other questions. In the same time others come and engaged me in some other questions and then you come back after many days to ask the same question.

I hope it is the answer of your question and you will not remember after many days again that you asked me the question and I didn't answer.”

Thank you. You have finally adopted a position and are prepared to say that “it [the concept of a “right-hand possession”] does not apply to housemaids in the present time”. I am sorry, but I have repeatedly asked this question and this is the first time you have given a straight answer.

This leads me on to a number of questions.

When citizen of the Philippines Flora Del Mindanao, who worked as a housemaid in Saudi Arabia, was serially raped by her employer over a period of four years, her employer justified this act on the grounds that, as his housemaid, she was his “right-hand possession” and he was thus entitled to treat her as a sex slave. His opinion must carry some weight, because her employer was an Imam and the leader of an influential madrassa (Islamic school). You have contradicted this Imam’s view with your above statement. In a previous post you have tried to paint Saudi Arabia as a crime-free paradise and shining beacon of what Islam has to deliver. In fact, modern-day Saudi Arabia is a country in which the most basic of human rights are trampled on every day and in a systematic manner. Foreign housemaids suffer serial rape by their employers and then they are punished with floggings and imprisonment if they become pregnant while the rapists go scot-free. Boys as young as three or four are purchased in poor countries and are strapped on to the backs of camels, supposedly acting as as “camel jockeys”. Members of the Saudi royal family keep large harems of sex slaves. Slave markets continue to operate in Saudi cities, where captives are brought in from places like Somalia and Sudan and sold. Saudi Arabia, far from being a shining beacon of light, is a huge cancer right at the centre of Islam. People like you, far from condoning or ignoring these things, should take a principled stand and condemn them. Then I might begin to have some respect for their views. Until such time, they come across to me as total hypocrites. Put your own house in order first, and then come preaching to people like me!

Please do not repeat the argument about judging Islam by the acts of Muslims. These are not just the acts of a few criminals. Sharia law systematically condones and permits these abuses. If you do not believe that Sharia law is being correctly applied in a country like Saudi Arabia, the onus is on you to explain why, and to tell us how it is supposed to operate. You refuse to do this.

I have previously quoted the views of Abdurrahman Wahid, who was president of Indonesia from 1999-2001, about the way his country’s nationals are treated in Saudi Arabia. Wahid, by the way, is an expert in Islamic law and once taught at the Faculty of Islamic Beliefs and Practice at Hasyim Asyari University.

His comment was:

"The Saudi people still believe in
the old Islamic teaching, which is belief in slavery. So a woman who works
for them is considered a slave."

If this Islamic scholar can condemn the practice of slavery in Saudi Arabia, why can’t you?

Let’s turn to your point about what the Quran and hadith have to say about slavery. You say:

“I had posted all how Muslims should treat there salves if they have but I think you didn’t read it.”

I am sorry, but I both read your post and REPLIED to it, quoting from the Quran and hadith. Who isn’t reading whose posts? Please do not insult my intelligence. I have read every post you have made, and have given reasoned answers backed up with sources. It is you who doesn’t read what I write and fails to answer.

In a post you made on 17 June, you say:

“For bible i agree because bible was just for that particular time period and specific people but Quran is for all times.”

This is the Islamic position. The Quran is the literal word of God as revealed through Muhammad. Islam is the final and true religion, and its precepts will apply for the rest of time until judgement day. As such, the word of God as revealed in the Quran must have universal application to all of mankind.

As I have already shown, God in the Quran makes frequent reference to the concept of “right-hand possession:


4:3
If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
4:24
Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
4:25
If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess: And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another: Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable: They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours: when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
16:71
Allah has bestowed His gifts of sustenance more freely on some of you than on others: those more favoured are not going to throw back their gifts to those whom their right hands possess, so as to be equal in that respect. Will they then deny the favours of Allah.
23: 5 and 6
Who abstain from sex,
Except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (in their case) they are free from blame,
24:58
O ye who believe! let those whom your right hands possess, and the (children) among you who have not come of age ask your permission (before they come to your presence), on three occasions: before morning prayer; the while ye doff your clothes for the noonday heat; and after the late-night prayer: these are your three times of undress: outside those times it is not wrong for you or for them to move about attending to each other: Thus does Allah make clear the Signs to you: for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.
30:28
He does propound to you a similitude from your own (experience): do ye have partners among those whom your right hands possess, to share as equals in the wealth We have bestowed on you? Do ye fear them as ye fear each other? Thus do we explain the Signs in detail to a people that understand.
33:50
O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful.
33:55
There is no blame (on these ladies if they appear) before their fathers or their sons, their brothers, or their brother’s sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their women, or the (slaves) whom their right hands possess. And, (ladies), fear Allah. for Allah is Witness to all things.
70: 29 and 30
And those who guard their chastity,
Except with their wives and the (captives) whom their right hands possess,- for (then) they are not to be blamed,

So, the onus is on those who chose to proselytise Islam as the true message for all of mankind for all time what the relevance of this concept is for people living in modern, civilised, secular countries in which slavery has long since been abolished. You could of course argue that the precepts of Islam were progressive in their day, but have since become anachronistic. However, this argument is invalidated by the claim that Islam has universal application. You could argue, as many Gulf Arabs still do, that slavery is justified under Islam and they thus have every right to continue to practise it. You have closed this line of argument by rejecting the notion that foreign housemaids in Saudi Arabia can be classified as “right-hand possessions”. So, what is the relevance of this concept for humanity in an age in which slavery has been abolished in all civilised countries?

You say “Islam encourages to free slaves”. Correct. There are many hadith which exhort Muslims to free slaves and treat them well. However, the basic premise is that the institution of slavery exists and is acceptable. You are exhorted to free your slave; you are not required to do so.

Let’s turn your question “I had challenged you to find me a single verse from Qur'an which says that Muslims should keep slaves or it encourages slavery” round. I challenge you to find a single verse from the Quran or a hadith which PROHIBITS Muslims from keeping slaves. You can not. The supposition that runs through the Quran and hadith is that slavery is acceptable and will always exist. Surely the exhortation to “treat your slaves well” implies that it is OK to keep slaves.

So, maybe the Imam who raped his housemaid was right after all. Perhaps Sharia law really does permit the keeping of sex slaves.

[QAMERSLAND]

THE QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE COMPATIBLE OR INCOMPATIBLE ?


Ever since the dawn of human life on this planet, Man has always tried to understand Nature, his own place in the scheme of Creation and the purpose of Life itself. In this quest for Truth, spanning many centuries and diverse civilizations, organized religion has shaped human life and, to a large extent, has determined the course of history. While some religions have been based on written text, claimed by their followers to be divinely inspired, others have relied solely on human experience.
Al-Qur’an, the main source of the Islamic faith, is a book believed by its followers, the Muslims, to be completely of Divine origin. Muslims also believe that it contains guidance for all humankind. Since the message of the Qur’an is believed to be for all times, it should be relevant to every age. But does the Qur’an pass this test?
In this booklet, I intend to give an objective analysis of the Muslim belief regarding the Divine origin of the Qur’an, particularly in the light of established scientific discoveries.

There was a time, in the history of world civilization, when ‘miracles’, or what were perceived to be miracles, took precedence over human reason and logic. Of course, the normal defination of ‘miracle’ is simply, anything that takes place out of the normal course of life and for which humankind has no explanation.
However, we must be careful before accepting something as a miracle. In 1993, ‘The Times of India’, Mumbai, reported that ‘a saint’ by the name ‘Baba Pilot’ claimed to have stayed continuously submerged under water in a tank for three consecutive days and nights.

However, when reporters wanted to examine the bottom of the tank of water in which he claimed to have performed his ‘miraculous feat’, he refused to let them do so. He argued by asking as to how one could examine the womb of a mother that gives birth to a child. Obviously the ‘saint’ had something to conceal! His claim was a gimmick simply to gain publicity. Surely, no modern person with even the slightest inkling towards rational thinking would accept such a ‘miracle’. If such false miracles are the tests of divinity, then we would have to accept all world famous magicians known for their ingenious magical tricks and illusions, as genuine God-men! A book, claiming to be of Divine origin, is in effect, claiming to be a miracle. Such a claim should be easily verifiable in any age, according to the standards of that age. Muslims believe, that the Qur’an is the last and final revelation of God, the miracle of miracles, revealed as a mercy to mankind. Let us therefore investigate the veracity of this belief.

[QAMERSLAND]

THE CHALLENGE OF THE QUR’AN

Literature and poetry have been instruments of human expression and creativity, in all cultures. The world also witnessed an age when literature and poetry occupied pride of position, similar to that now enjoyed by science and technology. Even non-Muslim scholars agree that the Qur’an is Arabic literature par excellence – that it is the best Arabic literature on the face of the earth. The Qur’an challenges mankind to produce the likes of it:

“And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. “But if ye cannot – and of a surety you cannot – then fear the Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones – which is prepared for those who reject Faith.” [Al-Qur’an 2:23-24]

The challenge of the Qur’an, is to produce a single Surah (chapter) like the Surahs it contains. The same challenge is repeated in the Qur’an several times. The challenge to produce a Surah, which, in beauty, eloquence, depth and meaning is at least somewhat similar to a Qur’anic Surah remains unmet to this day.

A modern rational man, however, would never accept a religious scripture which says, in the best possible poetic language, that the world is flat. This is because we live in an age, where human reason, logic and science are given primacy. Not many would accept the Qur’an’s extraordinarily beautiful language, as proof of its Divine origin. Any scripture claiming to be a divine revelation must also be acceptable on the strength of its own reason and logic.

According to the famous physicist and Nobel Prize winner, Albert Einstein, “Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.” Let us therefore study the Qur’an, and analyze whether the Qur’an and Modern Science are compatible or incompatible?

The Qur’an is not a book of Science but a book of ‘Signs’, i.e. Aayaats. There are more than six thousand ‘Signs’ in the Qur’an of which more than a thousand deal with hard core Science.
We all know that many a times Science takes a ‘U-turn’. In this book I have considered only established scientific facts and not hypotheses and theories based on mere assumptions and not backed by proof.

[QAMERSLAND]

ASTRONOMY

CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE: ‘THE BIG BANG’

The creation of the universe is explained by astrophysicists as a widely accepted phenomenon, popularly known as ‘The Big Bang’. It is supported by observational and experimental data gathered by astronomers and astrophysicists for decades. According to ‘The Big Bang’, the whole universe was initially one big mass (Primary Nebula). Then there was a ‘Big Bang’ (Secondary Separation) which resulted in the formation of Galaxies. These then divided to form stars, planets, the sun, the moon, etc. The origin of the universe was unique and the probability of it happening by ‘chance’ is nil. The Qur’an contains the following verse regarding the origin of the universe:

“Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder?” [Al-Qu’ran 21:30]

The striking similarity between the Qur’anic verse and ‘The Big Bang’ is inescapable! How could a book, which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400 years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?

[QAMERSLAND]

INITIAL GASEOUS MASS BEFORE CREATION OF GALAXIES

Scientists agree that before the galaxies in the universe were formed, celestial matter was initially in the form of gaseous matter. In short, huge gaseous matter or clouds were present before the formation of the galaxies. To describe initial celestial matter, the word ‘smoke’ is more appropriate than gas. The following Qur’anic verse refers to this state of the universe by the word dukhaan which means smoke.

“Moreover, He Comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: ‘Come ye together,
willingly or unwillingly.’ They said: ‘We do come (together), in willing obedience.’” Al-Qur’an 41:11]

Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and was not known to anyone before the prophetehood of Muhammad (Peace be upon him)1. What then, could have been the source of this knowledge?

[QAMERSLAND]

SHAPE OF THE EARTH IS SPHERICAL

In early times, people believed that the earth was flat. For centuries, men were afraid to venture out too far, for fear of falling off the edge! Sir Francis Drake was the first person who proved that the earth is spherical when he sailed around it in 1597.

Consider the following Qur’anic verse regarding the alternation of day and night:

“Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and He merges Day into Night?”[Al-Qur’an 31:29]

Merging here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day and from day to night.

The following verse also alludes to the spherical shape of the earth:

“He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night.” [Al-Qur’an 39:5]

The Arabic word used here is Kawwara meaning ‘to overlap’ or ‘to coil’– the way a turban is wound around the head. The overlapping or coiling of the day and night can only take place if the earth is spherical.
The earth is not exactly round like a ball, but geo-spherical, i.e. it is flattened at the poles. The following verse contains a description of the earth’s shape:

“And the earth, moreover, hath He made egg shaped.” [Al-Qur’an 79:30]

The Arabic word for egg here is dahaahaa, which means an ostrich-egg. The shape of an ostrich-egg resembles the geo-spherical shape of the earth. Thus the Qur’an correctly describes the shape of the earth, though the prevalent notion when the Qur’an was revealed was that the earth was flat.

[QAMERSLAND]

MOONLIGHT IS REFLECTED LIGHT

It was believed by earlier civilizations that the moon emanates its own light. Science now tells us

The Arabic word dahaahaa has been translated by A. Yusuf Ali as “vast expanse”, which also is correct. This word also means an ostrich-egg.
that the light of the moon is reflected light. However this fact was mentioned in the Qur’an 1,400 years ago in the following verse:

“Blessed is He Who made Constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light.” [Al-Qur’an 25:61]


The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’an, is shams. It is also referred to as siraaj which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj meaning ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion. The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’an as muneer which is a body that gives noor i.e. reflected light. Again, the Qur’anic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon which does not give off light by itself and is an inactive body that reflects the light of the sun. Not once in the Qur’an, is the moon mentioned as siraaj, wahhaaj or diya nor the sun as noor or muneer. This implies that the Qur’an recognizes the difference between the nature of sunlight and moonlight.
The following verses relate to the nature of light from the sun and the moon:

“It is He who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty).” [Al-Qur’an 10:5]

“See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, “And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?” [Al-Qur’an 71:15-16]

The Glorious Qur'an and modern science, are thus in perfect agreement about the differences in the nature of sunlight and moonlight.[/b]

[QAMERSLAND]

THE SUN ROTATES

For a long time European philosophers and scientists believed that the earth stood still in the centre of the universe and every other body including the sun moved around it. In the West, this geocentric concept of the universe was prevalent right from the time of Ptolemy in the second century B.C. In 1512, Nicholas Copernicus put forward his Heliocentric Theory of Planetary Motion, which asserted that the sun is

motionless at the centre of the solar system with the planets revolving around it. In 1609, the German scientist Yohannus Keppler published the ‘Astronomia Nova’. In this he concluded that not only do the planets move in elliptical orbits around the sun, they also rotate upon their axes at irregular speeds. With this knowledge it became possible for European scientists to explain correctly many of the mechanisms of the solar system, including the sequence of night and day.
After these discoveries, it was thought that the Sun was stationary and did not rotate about its axis like the Earth. I remember having studied this fallacy from Geography books during my school days.
Consider the following Qur’anic verse:

“It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: All (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.” [Al-Qur’an 21:33][/b]

The Arabic word used in the above verse is yasbahoon . This word is derived from the word sabaha. It carries with it the idea of motion that comes from any moving body. If you use this word for a person on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would imply that he is walking or running. If you use this word for a person in water, it would not mean that he is floating but would imply that he is swimming. Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the sun, it would not only mean that it is flying through space but would also mean that it is rotating as it goes through space. Most school textbooks have now incorporated the fact that the sun rotates about its axis. The rotation of the sun about its own axis can be proved with the help of an equipment that projects the image of the sun on the top of a table, so that one can examine the image of the sun without being blinded. It is noticed that the sun has spots which complete a circular motion once every 25 days i.e. the sun takes approximately 25 days to rotate round its axis. The sun travels through space at roughly 240 km per second, and takes about 200 million years to complete one revolution around the centre of our Milky Way Galaxy.

“It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night out strip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).” [Al-Qur’an 36:40]

This verse mentions an essential fact discovered only recently by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion.

The ‘fixed place’ towards which the sun travels, carrying with it the solar system, has been located preirsely by modern astronomy. It has been given a name, the Solar Apex. The solar system is indeed moving in space towards a point situated in the constellation of Hercules (alpha Lyrae) whose exact location is now firmly established. The moon rotates around its axis in the same duration that it takes to revolve around the earth. It takes approximately 29½ days to complete one rotation.
One cannot help but be amazed at the scientific accuracy of the Qur’anic verses. Should we not ponder over the question: “What is the source of knowledge contained in the Qur’an?”

[QAMERSLAND]

THE SUN WILL EXTINGUISH

The light of the sun is due to a chemical process on its surface that has been taking place continuously for the past five billion years. It will come to an end at some point of time in the future, when the sun will be totally extinguished, leading to extinction of all life on earth. Regarding the impermanence of the sun’s existence, the Qur’an says:

“And the Sun runs its course for a period determined for it; that is the decree of (Him) the exalted in Might, the All-Knowing.” [Al-Qur’an 36:38]

The Arabic word used here is mustaqarr, which means a place or time that is determined. Thus the Qur’an says that the sun runs towards a determined place, and will do so only up to a pre-determined period of time – meaning that it will end or extinguish.

[QAMERSLAND]

INTERSTELLAR MATTER

Space outside organized astronomical systems was earlier assumed to be a vacuum. Astrophysicists later discovered the presence of bridges of matter in this interstellar space. These bridges of matter are called plasma, and consist of completely ionized gas containing equal number of free electrons and positive ions. Plasma is sometimes called the fourth state of matter (besides the three known states viz. solid, liquid and gas). The Qur’an refers to the presence of this interstellar material in the following verse:

“He Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is between.” [Al-Qur’an 25:59]

It would be ridiculous for anyone to even suggest that the presence of interstellar galactic material was known 1400 years ago!