Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Zan and Tim

Have a look at this link. Mahommed and his Jewish wife?

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/islam1.html

Rawk

What do you really think about religion Rawk????? Sorry if you have already said but I missed it.

[Southerner]

Zan and Tim
Have a look at this link. Mahommed and his Jewish wife?
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/islam1.html
Rawk

The above link shows clearly that you are visiting anti Islamic websites to malign Islam but you have failed miserably because truth stands out clear from Error.
"When the truth is heard like falsehood, Falsehood will perish because falsehood by its nature bound to be perish" Al Qur'an
if you want to know Islam, visit the following websites
www.irf.net
www.islamtomorrow.com
www. islamtoday.com
www.answering-islam.com
you are all welcome to know the true religion of Islam by knowing from its root source The Quran and Authentic Hadith

They need you in pakistan right now, on the news this morning yet more murdering suicide bombers, muslims murdering muslims.
Put your own house in order!

[rawk]

Zan and Tim

Have a look at this link. Mahommed and his Jewish wife?

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/islam1.html

Rawk

The above link shows clearly that you are visiting anti Islamic websites to malign Islam but you have failed miserably because truth stands out clear from Error.

"When the truth is heard like falsehood, Falsehood will perish because falsehood by its nature bound to be perish" Al Qur'an

if you want to know Islam, visit the following websites

www.irf.net

www.islamtomorrow.com

www. islamtoday.com

www.answering-islam.com


you are all welcome to know the true religion of Islam by knowing from its root source The Quran and Authentic Hadith

Do try and keep up Squamers!

I posted that link for the benefit of Tim and Zan because they have demonstrated rational thought and deduction based on information placed before them. I believed the link to be informative with regard to Mohammed's "formative" years. I don't wholly concur with everthing written there but it has given me a lot to think about and I thought it interesting that archeologists have found fragments of an earlier version of the Qu'ran and the possiblity of an infection by sheep giving rise to seeing visions and hearing voices.

It is not an anti Islamic website but an attempt to give insights to research to try to make sense of a middle eastern society several hundred years ago. One of the reasions that I did not call your attention to it is that you have made it more than clear that you have a closed world view and a narrow bigoted mindset that precludes acceptance of any information that does not correspond with the medievalist claptrap you have churned out on this BB.

It would have been a pointless exercise to include you in the loop which has been more than demonstrated by your uninvited response to a serious subject. If you have to indulge, try and demonstrate some logical reasoning to arguments rather than trotting out dodgy Islamic propaganda ad infinitum.

Take more water with it!

Rawk

[Tim Drayton]

Let's take a break from Bukhari. Here is what another respected source has to say about Muhammed and slavery:

Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, a great scholar and Islamic historian says in his book "Zad al-Ma'ad", part 1, p160:

"Muhammad had many male and female slaves. He used to buy and sell them, but he purchased more slaves then he sold. He once sold one black slave for two. His purchases of slaves were more than he sold."

"Muhammad had a number of black slaves. One of them was named 'Mahran'. Muhammad forced him to do more labor than the average man. Whenever Muhammad went on a trip and he, or his people, got tired of carrying their stuff, he made Mahran carry it. Mahran said "Even if I were already carrying the load of 6 or 7 donkeys while we were on a journey, anyone who felt weak would throw his clothes or his shield or his sword on me so I would carry that, a heavy load". Tabari and Jawziyya both record this, so Islam accepts this as true."

do you know that there is science of Hadith to understand which is athentic and which is un athentic. you are qouting with out knowing the status.

tell us the truth from which source you are geting this anti islamic un atehntic refrences?

i totally reject that Muhammad PBUH bought more slaves than e bought and he had many slaves. he always encouraged and thought others to free their slaves. he was sent the time when the slavery were very common and he and his companion paid to many to fre their salve and one of the Example is Bilal PBUH who became the first to call for prayer.

you are taking weak hadith to prove that islam encourges the slavery that is not truth at all. i have repeatedly said that to find out which of the famous world known scholars .

it is white lie, you must read the authentic biography of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him to know the truth.

How does Islam view slaves?

Let us look at Noble Verse 2:177 "It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the God-fearing." In this Noble Verse, we see that Allah Almighty orders Muslims to spend from their money and wealth and to give with love and respect the kin, orphans, the needy, the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for slaves. Muslims have to help those who need it in their community.

Let us look at Noble Verse 2:221 "Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But God beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise." In this Noble Verse, we see that Allah Almighty in some cases considers a slave to be better than a free human being. Allah Almighty orders Muslims not to marry from the Pagans, and He tells us that a slave Muslim (who is owned by a non Muslim) is better than a non believer, even if that non believer was beautiful.

Some teachings from Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: "When the slave of anyone amongst you prepares food for him and he serves him after having sat close to (and undergoing the hardship of) heat and smoke, he should make him (the slave) sit along with him and make him eat (along with him), and if the food seems to run short, then he should spare some portion for him (from his own share) - (another narrator) Dawud said:" i. e. a morsel or two". 4097. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4096)"

Narrated Al-Ma'rur: "At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, "I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names." The Prophet said to me, 'O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names You still have some characteristics of ignorance. Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29)"

Narrated Anas: "The Prophet said, 'None of you will have faith till he wishes for his (Muslim) brother [this includes slaves, since a slave is considered a brother as shown above] what he likes for himself.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 12)"

Narrated Abu Musa: "Some people asked Allah's Apostle, 'Whose Islam is the best? i.e. (Who is a very good Muslim)?' He replied, 'One who avoids harming the Muslims with his tongue and hands.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 10)"

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr: "A man asked the Prophet, 'What sort of deeds or (what qualities of) Islam are good?' The Prophet replied, 'To feed (the poor) and greet those whom you know and those whom you do not Know.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 11)"

From which source you are geting this anti islamic un atehntic refrences?

With one exeption, all the hadith I quoted are from Bukhari's Es-Sahih, which is considered to be one of the most reliable sources of hadith in Islam.

Sorry, but for every hadith you can quote showing that the prophet favoured treating slaves well, I can quote one that shows the opposite.

Surely the real point to debate is whether the institution of slavery has any place in the modern world.

[Tim Drayton]

Zan and Tim

Have a look at this link. Mahommed and his Jewish wife?

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/islam1.html

Rawk

Thanks Rawk. Interesting article. Especially the statement:

"Most Arabs, particularly the nomadic and semi-nomadic Bedouin, remained at heart polytheistic pagans"

strikes a chord with me. I have worked as an instructor with Qatari teenagers and I have noticed that there is so much about them which is un-Islamic and seems to be rooted in more ancient belief systems.

After all, if all Saudi Arabians were convinced Muslims, why do the mutawwa (a semi-official relligious police force) have to round up droves of young people and force them with canes in their hands to go to the mosques at prayer time?

[Moonlight]

[QAMERSLAND]

Thank you brother Tim

We may not understand the hadiths and its importance in the present time but the time when the slavery were on its peak. Muhammad peace be upon him encouraged gradually to free salves and treat them just as your brothers.

Because it was the practice of that time therefore Muhammad PBUH delt with it sensibly to teach people to free their slaves and even if they kept them. In those times when the people were accepting to be slaves because by being free, they were not able to get food to eat for them and their families. So some poor people preferred to be the slaves of rich men to survive. It was not Islamic but the practice of pageant and idolaters. Muhammad PBUH teach them that the Slave and Master are Equal and treat them as your brothers, provide them food and even keep spare from your own food if it is not enough.

I challenge any human being to find me a single verse from the Qur'an that it is compulsory for a Muslims that they should must keep slaves or encourage slavery.

Islam is not the property of Arabs but it is for all human beings. If the some Arabs are involved in practicing slavery, you can not blame Islam for it. Same as Hitler killed 6 millions Jews and you can’t blame Christianity,

There are more than 3000 rapes alone in USA everyday and I can tell you verses from bible which allow rapes.

I assure you that Islam discourage Slavery and treat as brother who work as servants in the present time.

Please put some light in other crimes like shop lifting, street crimes, killing in Arab countries as compared to western countries.

We are here to discuss anything friendly and we will condemn any wrong practices done whether by Muslims or non Muslims


Take care

May Our creator guide us to follow the right path

[Southerner]

Please put some light in other crimes like shop lifting, street crimes, killing in Arab countries as compared to western countries.
We are here to discuss anything friendly and we will condemn any wrong practices done whether by Muslims or non Muslims
Take care
May Our creator guide us to follow the right path

Is suicide bombing not a street crime, will you go to Bali and confront the muslim cleric who promised umpteen virgins to the murdering bombers when they entered heaven?

[QAMERSLAND]

Please put some light in other crimes like shop lifting, street crimes, killing in Arab countries as compared to western countries.
We are here to discuss anything friendly and we will condemn any wrong practices done whether by Muslims or non Muslims
Take care
May Our creator guide us to follow the right path

Is suicide bombing not a street crime, will you go to Bali and confront the muslim cleric who promised umpteen virgins to the murdering bombers when they entered heaven?

To kill innocent human being are prohabited in islam and i think i need to remind you again and again.

God only knows if they will go to heaven or hell.

i condemn the killing of innocents unless it is for murder or spreading mischief in the land

[Southerner]

Please put some light in other crimes like shop lifting, street crimes, killing in Arab countries as compared to western countries.
We are here to discuss anything friendly and we will condemn any wrong practices done whether by Muslims or non Muslims
Take care
May Our creator guide us to follow the right path

Is suicide bombing not a street crime, will you go to Bali and confront the muslim cleric who promised umpteen virgins to the murdering bombers when they entered heaven?

To kill innocent human being are prohabited in islam and i think i need to remind you again and again.

God only knows if they will go to heaven or hell.

i condemn the killing of innocents unless it is for murder or spreading mischief in the land

Yes we know what you said but you'r in the wrong place on this forum you should be preaching to your own kind and putting your own house in order before you come here imposing your views on us.
What ans example muslims in Iraq and pakistan are setting for such a peacful religion.