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[zan]

Exodus 21:7-11 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. 9 But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.
10 “If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy. 11 If he fails in any of these three obligations, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.


Wake up guys....A pointless arguement

[Tim Drayton]

Exodus 21:7-11 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. 9 But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.
10 “If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy. 11 If he fails in any of these three obligations, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.


Wake up guys....A pointless arguement

Not a pointless argument. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all as sick as one another. If somebody opens a thread like this, they have to expect to hear the counter arguments. I think these points are very relevant at a time when certain forces are trying to roll back the calendar and re-impose Sharia law in Turkey.
I am simply exposing Sharia for law for what it is.

[Tim Drayton]

More on raping prisoners of war.

http://www.islam-watch.org/AbulKasem/Se ... islam3.htm

How about the foot soldiers of Muhammad (pbuh)? Those soldiers were, in fact sexual predators. Whenever one of these soldiers got hold of an infidel captive woman, he will immediately jump on her to have sexual intercourse with her. He would not even hesitate to lay himself upon a pregnant captive. It became such a serious problem that Muhammad (pbuh) and Allah Himself had to interfere to impose the condition that these soldiers could indulge in sex orgies only after these women were clear of their periods. We find that during the raid on Khaybar, among other restrictions, Muhammad had to prohibit sexual intercourse with pregnant captives by his followers (ref. 10, p.510). But this restriction did not prevent the Jihadis from enjoying the flesh of these hapless captives by indulging in the spilling of their seeds outside the vagina of these women. There are many ahadith that clearly demonstrate the utter vulgarity and inhuman sexual indulgence of these foot soldiers of Islam. Here I have selected a few of these utterly crude ahdith for you to pursue and enjoy the holy pornography, a la Islamic style. (More on sex with captives and slaves will be found in a subsequent part 5/6)
Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection."
Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 135:
Narrated Jabir:

We used to practice coitus interruptus during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle.
Sahih Bukhari: Volume 9, Book 93, Number 506:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interrupt us. The Prophet said, "It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection." Qaza'a said, "I heard Abu Sa'id saying that the Prophet said, 'No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it."
Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 136:
Narrated Jabir:
We used to practice coitus interruptus while the Quran was being revealed.

Jabir added:
We used to practice coitus interruptus during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle while the Quran was being Revealed.
Does the above hadis mean that the foot soldiers of Islam were spilling their seed outside the interior of their women victims when the Holy Qur'an was being revealed to Muhammad? How fantastic; just imagine for a while, the recitation of the Holy Scripture and the spilling of seed! What a great combination. This may even beat the chanting of Kamasutra verses hands down!
Here are few more of those gems of ahadith!
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3371:
Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): O Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3373:
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported:

We took women captives, and we wanted to do 'azl with them. We then asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) about it, and he said to us: Verily you do it, verily you do it, verily you do it, but the soul which has to be born until the Day of judgment must be born
It is also interesting to note that everyone was in the business of withdrawing their penis just before ejaculation
Malik's Muwatta Book 29, Number 29.32.96:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Abu'n-Nadr, the mawla of Umar ibn Ubaydullah from Amir ibn Sad ibn Abi Waqqas from his father that he used to practise coitus interruptus.
Sunan Abu Dawud Book 11, Number 2166:
Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri:
A man said: Apostle of Allah, I have a slave-girl and I withdraw the penis from her (while having intercourse), and I dislike that she becomes pregnant. I intend (by intercourse) what the men intend by it. The Jews say that withdrawing the penis (azl) is burying the living girls on a small scale. He (the Prophet) said: The Jews told a lie. If Allah intends to create it, you cannot turn it away.
The ahadith quoted above clearly proves that the spilling ones seed was the main method to avoid unwanted pregnancy amongst the captured concubines and slave-girls of early Muslims.
However, the following hadis tells us that coitus interruption is not permitted with ones own wife. The seed must be sown inside the vagina of one's own wife.Without her permission, you cannot spill your seed outside her. A woman's vagina is indeed a sowing field!
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3365:
This hadith has been reported on the authority of Jabir through another chain of transmitters, but in the hadith transmitted on the authority of Zuhri there is an addition (of these words):" If he likes he may (have intercourse) being on the back or in front of her, but it should be through one opening (vagina).
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3364:
Jabir (b. Abdullah) (Allah be pleased with him) reported that the Jews used to say that when one comes to one's wife through the vagina, but being on her back, and she becomes pregnant, the child has a squint. So the verse came down:" Your wives are your ti'Ith; go then unto your tilth, as you may desire."
Malik's Muwatta Book 34, Number 4210:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud:

The Prophet of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) disliked ten things: Yellow colouring, meaning khaluq, dyeing grey hair, trailing the lower garment, wearing a gold signet-ring, a woman decking herself before people who are not within the prohibited degrees, throwing dice, using spells except with the Mu'awwidhatan, wearing amulets, withdrawing the penis before the semen is discharged, in the case of a woman who is wife or not a wife, and having intercourse with a woman who is suckling a child; but he did not declare them to be prohibited.
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3377:
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported that mention was made of 'azl in the presence of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) whereupon he said: Why do you practise it? They said: There is a man whose wife has to suckle the child, and if that person has a sexual intercourse with her (she may conceive) which he does not like, and there is another person who has a slave-girl and he has a sexual intercourse with her, but he does not like her to have conception so that she may not become Umm Walad, whereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: There is no harm if you do not do that, for that (the birth of the child) is something pre- ordained. Ibn 'Aun said: I made a mention of this hadith to Hasan, and he said: By Allah, (it seems) as if there is upbraiding in it (for 'azl).

[Tim Drayton]

What a mine of hadiths there are in Bukhari alone. And all searchable by key words now! How many more do you want?

So, the prophet Mohammed ALWAYS encoraged people to free slaves. What about this hadith:

Vol. 3-#765

Narrated Kuraib: the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."

Here the prophet said it would have been better to give her slave to her uncle rather than free the slave!

Surely the point is that all modern, civilised, secular countries have long since abandoned the practice of slavery. It is surely much better not to have slaverey in the first place than to encourage people to free them.

[Tim Drayton]

Another Qamersland special:

"The 100 % sharia laws are not immplimeted in any country of the world and i myself visited the gulf coutries like bahrain and dubai in which i myself saw asian girls probabay from philpine or thailand practicing prostitution."

Yes, I have visited Bahrain. Bahrainis are the most charming people in the Gulf, but sadly one of Bahrain's main source of income is debauchery and prostitution.

Who are the clientele for this service? They are mostly citizens of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia who come for dirty weekends (Thursday and Friday is the weekend in Saudi) and indulge in an orgy of boozing, drug taking and prostitution. They come to Bahrain to do all the things they are forbiden to do in their own country.

Why do you only accuse the Asian women and ignore the Saudi Arabian clients who are patronising them? Surely it takes two to tango. Is it permitted under Sharia law for men to have sex with prostitutes and only the women are at fault? What rank hypocracy. If the only choice these women have is either to serve as sex slaves in Arab homes for very little pay, if they are ever paid at all, or earn reasonable money by prostituting themselves to Arabs, then I say good luck to them if they do the latter.

Let me ask once more. If so many people in the Arabian Peninsula claim to be Muslims but in fact blatantly break all the rules of Islam, why do you not devote your efforts to getting these sinners to return to the fold first and then turn your attentions to Western non believers once you have got your own house in order.

I know the answer, by the way. I suspect you are a non-Arab Muslim. Sadly, most Arabs have nothing but contempt for non-Arab Muslims and many of them even believe that it is impossible for a non-Arab to be a Muslim. And if you are Turkish - well I am sorry to Inform you that most Gulf Arabs detest Turks. The simple trut is that you would be treated with total derision if you dared to criticise Arabs, so you go for the soft target of Westerners instead.

[zan]

Exodus 21:7-11 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. 9 But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.
10 “If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy. 11 If he fails in any of these three obligations, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.


Wake up guys....A pointless arguement

Not a pointless argument. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all as sick as one another. If somebody opens a thread like this, they have to expect to hear the counter arguments. I think these points are very relevant at a time when certain forces are trying to roll back the calendar and re-impose Sharia law in Turkey.
I am simply exposing Sharia for law for what it is.

Perhaps it has evolved to the point that christianity has in other countries Tim.......Will you be going in like Bush and Blair in their attempt to impose democracy on Iraq?????Perhaps you would use your time better attacking that decision than a pointless thread on a Forum.......It just makes you all look like bigots. In this case I think I would be more happy if you attacked the person and HIS thinking rather than a religion.

[Tim Drayton]

Exodus 21:7-11 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. 9 But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.
10 “If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy. 11 If he fails in any of these three obligations, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.


Wake up guys....A pointless arguement

Not a pointless argument. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all as sick as one another. If somebody opens a thread like this, they have to expect to hear the counter arguments. I think these points are very relevant at a time when certain forces are trying to roll back the calendar and re-impose Sharia law in Turkey.
I am simply exposing Sharia for law for what it is.

Perhaps it has evolved to the point that christianity has in other countries Tim.......Will you be going in like Bush and Blair in their attempt to impose democracy on Iraq?????Perhaps you would use your time better attacking that decision than a pointless thread on a Forum.......It just makes you all look like bigots. In this case I think I would be more happy if you attacked the person and HIS thinking rather than a religion.

I am totally opposed to the neo-imperialist adventure that Bush and Blair are pursuing in Iraq. We are back to the myth of the "white man's burden" with the suggestion that America is in Iraq for the good of the Iraqi people rather than to get its hands on Iraqi oil.

However, I do not see how this stops me attacking Sharia law. Very serious human rights abuses are taking place on a regular and systematic in Saudi Arabia and neighboring countries. Given that Qamersland consistently refuses to condemn this, I feel justified in continuing to condemn Sharia law for what it is. Are you not pleased that Mustafa Kemal rid Turkey of this abomination?

[Tim Drayton]

Let's take a break from Bukhari. Here is what another respected source has to say about Muhammed and slavery:

Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, a great scholar and Islamic historian says in his book "Zad al-Ma'ad", part 1, p160:

"Muhammad had many male and female slaves. He used to buy and sell them, but he purchased more slaves then he sold. He once sold one black slave for two. His purchases of slaves were more than he sold."

"Muhammad had a number of black slaves. One of them was named 'Mahran'. Muhammad forced him to do more labor than the average man. Whenever Muhammad went on a trip and he, or his people, got tired of carrying their stuff, he made Mahran carry it. Mahran said "Even if I were already carrying the load of 6 or 7 donkeys while we were on a journey, anyone who felt weak would throw his clothes or his shield or his sword on me so I would carry that, a heavy load". Tabari and Jawziyya both record this, so Islam accepts this as true."

[zan]

Exodus 21:7-11 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. 9 But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.
10 “If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy. 11 If he fails in any of these three obligations, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.


Wake up guys....A pointless arguement

Not a pointless argument. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all as sick as one another. If somebody opens a thread like this, they have to expect to hear the counter arguments. I think these points are very relevant at a time when certain forces are trying to roll back the calendar and re-impose Sharia law in Turkey.
I am simply exposing Sharia for law for what it is.

Perhaps it has evolved to the point that christianity has in other countries Tim.......Will you be going in like Bush and Blair in their attempt to impose democracy on Iraq?????Perhaps you would use your time better attacking that decision than a pointless thread on a Forum.......It just makes you all look like bigots. In this case I think I would be more happy if you attacked the person and HIS thinking rather than a religion.

I am totally opposed to the neo-imperialist adventure that Bush and Blair are pursuing in Iraq. We are back to the myth of the "white man's burden" with the suggestion that America is in Iraq for the good of the Iraqi people rather than to get its hands on Iraqi oil.

However, I do not see how this stops me attacking Sharia law. Very serious human rights abuses are taking place on a regular and systematic in Saudi Arabia and neighboring countries. Given that Qamersland consistently refuses to condemn this, I feel justified in continuing to condemn Sharia law for what it is. Are you not pleased that Mustafa Kemal rid Turkey of this abomination?

I am more than pleased that Attaturk disposed of this law and am opposed to it ever rearing it's ugly head again but Islam is not to blame, just like Christianity is not to blame for Blair speaking to God before he made the decision to attack Iraq. He has been shown to be a complete nut job and I am ashamed to have ever defended him as a peoples man. The same way Sadam misrepresented his people, individuals are to blame. Picking text out of a book that was written a long time ago and justifying your attack is no better than those that use the same text to justify the abuse they wreak on trusting souls. If Blair were to have ever been in a position to abuse the power he held what would you see as being wrong.......His abuse of the religion or the religion it self. If you see the religion it self as the problem then you should not be insulted when these two here say that it is the way that women dress that opens them up to be attacked.

[Southerner]

Exodus 21:7-11 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.
7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. 9 But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.
10 “If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy. 11 If he fails in any of these three obligations, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.
Wake up guys....A pointless arguement

This was handed down from mouth to mouth for so many generations and is totaly irellevant today, the difference is that I can say and think this without fear of being stoned to death for blasphemy which is the fate a muslim would no doubt suffer for saying the same thing.
It would appear that the muslim clerics themselves intepret the koran as it suits them; in that respect they are no different to some other religions.