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Greek "Settlers"

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby CopperLine » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:17 am

Zan,
Thanks for the advice. You are right to say that Piratis is full of inconsistencies and contradictions .... except in one respect. He is consistently a bigot when it comes to things Turkish or Turkish Cypriot.

Not having had enough of baseless ad hominem attacks on PRIO he then makes ad hominem attacks on the individual researchers - on what grounds ? That Mete Hatay is Turkish Cypriot - that alone in Piratis' eyes is enough to condemn him and his research. Piratis, because he is quite incapable of dealing with method and problems in demographic research - no reason why he should have that competence, it is a specialist field after all - does the only thing that Piratis seems able to do, namely attack people personally.

He's equally mistaken about PRIO funding. He assumes, because he is lazy and prefers to confirm his bigotry rather than even do one moment of investigation, that because all funders are not listed on the website that it must mean that funders are 'undisclosed' and that - next big leap in his imagination - that must mean that a hidden funder is T or TC. (Following his last reply he clearly has not read or understood the research disclaimer that PRIO publish). The fact is that tens of thousands of independent organisations do not publish a full list of funders, mainly because of lack of space and time, but that does not mean that they are hiding or refusing to disclose. If Piratis could be bothered to get up off his bigotry he could ask PRIO for a full list of funders, including for this particular project, and see what they say.


The PRIO report itself was written by a Turkish Cypriot Mete Hatay, with the help of his wife, other Turkish Cypriots, and some foreigners.


So Piratis being a foreigner now also disqualifies a person from being independent ? Being married to a Turkish Cypriot also disqualifies one from being independent as well ? Well it looks as if in the Piratis-Fantasyland an independent researcher (i) cannot be Turkish, (ii) cannot be Turkish Cypriot, (iii) cannot be related to either T or TC, (iv) cannot be a foreigner, (v) cannot use T or TC data .... the sum of these brings Piratis to the inescapable conclusion that the only independent researcher or research is a native GC only using RoC data. (And god help the GC who came to similar conclusions to the PRIO report, for in Piratis' eyes that would only be evidence of him/her being a traitor or a T/TC in disguise)

And this all goes to show what Piratis is fundamentally incapable of understanding : the notion of independent research does not arise from or derive from the person of the researcher - Turkish, Greek, Russian, Bolivian, Catholic, Jew, Hindu - but from the nature of scientific method.


Does anyone still want to claim that the above report is an independent one?

Yes, Piratis, I do because the scientific method is more robust than other demographic studies that I have seen. Piratis has failed to point to any other demographic research - from whatever source - which could have lead me to change my mind. If he can I'll be interested to read it ... but I won't be holding my breath.
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Postby bilako22 » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:38 am

Come on my Greek friends , explain to us where all your additional citizens since 1960 have come from. It cannot all be from natural births to GC couples.
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Postby DT. » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:05 am

bilako22 wrote:Come on my Greek friends , explain to us where all your additional citizens since 1960 have come from. It cannot all be from natural births to GC couples.


Firstly what settlers are you talking about? If you could save me the trip to the beginning of this thread i'd appreciate it.

Secondly this country is amember of the EU. Any EU citizen can choose to reside here be they Greek, Italian or Danish..
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Postby zan » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:09 am

CopperLine wrote:Zan,
Thanks for the advice. You are right to say that Piratis is full of inconsistencies and contradictions .... except in one respect. He is consistently a bigot when it comes to things Turkish or Turkish Cypriot.

Not having had enough of baseless ad hominem attacks on PRIO he then makes ad hominem attacks on the individual researchers - on what grounds ? That Mete Hatay is Turkish Cypriot - that alone in Piratis' eyes is enough to condemn him and his research. Piratis, because he is quite incapable of dealing with method and problems in demographic research - no reason why he should have that competence, it is a specialist field after all - does the only thing that Piratis seems able to do, namely attack people personally.

He's equally mistaken about PRIO funding. He assumes, because he is lazy and prefers to confirm his bigotry rather than even do one moment of investigation, that because all funders are not listed on the website that it must mean that funders are 'undisclosed' and that - next big leap in his imagination - that must mean that a hidden funder is T or TC. (Following his last reply he clearly has not read or understood the research disclaimer that PRIO publish). The fact is that tens of thousands of independent organisations do not publish a full list of funders, mainly because of lack of space and time, but that does not mean that they are hiding or refusing to disclose. If Piratis could be bothered to get up off his bigotry he could ask PRIO for a full list of funders, including for this particular project, and see what they say.


The PRIO report itself was written by a Turkish Cypriot Mete Hatay, with the help of his wife, other Turkish Cypriots, and some foreigners.


So Piratis being a foreigner now also disqualifies a person from being independent ? Being married to a Turkish Cypriot also disqualifies one from being independent as well ? Well it looks as if in the Piratis-Fantasyland an independent researcher (i) cannot be Turkish, (ii) cannot be Turkish Cypriot, (iii) cannot be related to either T or TC, (iv) cannot be a foreigner, (v) cannot use T or TC data .... the sum of these brings Piratis to the inescapable conclusion that the only independent researcher or research is a native GC only using RoC data. (And god help the GC who came to similar conclusions to the PRIO report, for in Piratis' eyes that would only be evidence of him/her being a traitor or a T/TC in disguise)

And this all goes to show what Piratis is fundamentally incapable of understanding : the notion of independent research does not arise from or derive from the person of the researcher - Turkish, Greek, Russian, Bolivian, Catholic, Jew, Hindu - but from the nature of scientific method.


Does anyone still want to claim that the above report is an independent one?

Yes, Piratis, I do because the scientific method is more robust than other demographic studies that I have seen. Piratis has failed to point to any other demographic research - from whatever source - which could have lead me to change my mind. If he can I'll be interested to read it ... but I won't be holding my breath.


You are welcome my friend. You do risk expanding Piratis, universe by saying all those things you know. Not to worry though....I am sure the the Big Crunch will happen almost instantly. :wink: :lol:
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Postby Piratis » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:06 pm

Cooperline, here we have two reports, one from the Council of Europe, and one made by a Turkish Cypriot. Actually we now may also add the reports made by Greek Cypriots which talk about 115.000 Settlers, I didn't talk about these reports before because I am not such a bigot like you to claim that what is made by Greek Cypriots is independent.

So which one is the independent one? The one made by the Council of Europe, the one made by a Turkish Cypriot or the one made by Greek Cypriots?


I immediately understood the total bias of the PRIO report even before I noticed it was written by a Turkish Cypriot. It doesn't talk about Settlers, using quotes around that world, and preferred to call them Turkish immigrants instead. On the other hand it doesn't use quotes around the illegal entity of "trnc". Then it also adopts the fake numbers of your pseudo state. We are talking about a total alignment with the Turkish propaganda.

Come on mate, I made it soooo easy for you to see the truth.
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Postby observer » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:33 pm

Piratis
immediately understood the total bias of the PRIO report even before I noticed it was written by a Turkish Cypriot. It doesn't talk about Settlers, using quotes around that world, and preferred to call them Turkish immigrants instead. On the other hand it doesn't use quotes around the illegal entity of "trnc". Then it also adopts the fake numbers of your pseudo state. We are talking about a total alignment with the Turkish propaganda.


Piratis has really gone wild on this one. From giving advice, we have gone to TCs writing the PRIO report. And to close the matter, there is the conspiracy of the quotation marks.

If I write "Piratis" will he jump up and down screaming?
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Postby DT. » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:01 pm

Piratis wrote:Cooperline, here we have two reports, one from the Council of Europe, and one made by a Turkish Cypriot. Actually we now may also add the reports made by Greek Cypriots which talk about 115.000 Settlers, I didn't talk about these reports before because I am not such a bigot like you to claim that what is made by Greek Cypriots is independent.

So which one is the independent one? The one made by the Council of Europe, the one made by a Turkish Cypriot or the one made by Greek Cypriots?


I immediately understood the total bias of the PRIO report even before I noticed it was written by a Turkish Cypriot. It doesn't talk about Settlers, using quotes around that world, and preferred to call them Turkish immigrants instead. On the other hand it doesn't use quotes around the illegal entity of "trnc". Then it also adopts the fake numbers of your pseudo state. We are talking about a total alignment with the Turkish propaganda.

Come on mate, I made it soooo easy for you to see the truth.


this is what that reports says about the north

The TRNC was proclaimed as an independent secular republic on 15 November 1983. However, the TRNC has failed to gain international recognition from any country other than Turkey, and the UN Security Council pronounced its proclamation in 1983 invalid and called upon member-states ‘not to recognize any Cypriot state other than the Republic of Cyprus’ (Press and Information Office of the Republic of Cyprus, 1997). Since the TRNC has not achieved international recognition, neither the TRNC’s government nor its parliament are seen as legal entities internationally, and are instead regarded as subservient to the Turkish ‘occupation’ authorities. Consequently, the only state to recognize the validity and legitimacy of the TRNC and its political institutions (along with elections to those bodies) is the one that the rest of the world views as an illegal occupying power. Meanwhile, the only internationally recognized political administration on the island is that of the Republic of Cyprus, which was established as a bi-communal partnership state upon the island’s independence from Britain in 1960. Hence, although the government of the Republic of Cyprus does not exercise de facto control over the northern part of the island, its de jure jurisdiction encompasses the island as a whole. The Greek-Cypriot government of the Republic of Cyprus also enjoys international recognition as the representative of the Turkish-Cypriot community, despite the absence (since December 1963) of the constitutionally mandated Turkish-Cypriot representation in its executive and legislative bodies, along with the non-participation of the Turkish-Cypriot community in elections to those institutions.
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Postby CopperLine » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:33 pm

And Piratis began maliging PRIO by saying that they sent him stuff supporting the Annan Plan. This is actually PRIO's role in 2004 and earlier, with my emphasis added,

[quote]In late 2003, a team consisting of two Turkish Cypriots and two Greek Cypriots initiated a ‘Public Information Project’ aimed at providing easily understandable, objective and accurate information on the so-called Annan Plan – a UN proposal for a settlement to the ‘Cyprus problem’ – to help the island’s citizens make an informed decision on the proposal. The output of that project included leaflets, booklets, a website, newspaper articles, public meetings and expert appearances in the media. Ahead of the twin referenda in late April 2004, the project entered a very intense period. Substantial requests for information from both Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots highlighted the need for non-partisan information on both sides of the divided island. PRIO itself, however, took no position on the Annan Plan.[/quote]

And this quoted text is from the 'Foreword' to the report which Piratis claims is T or TC 'propaganda', at http://www.prio.no/files/manual-import/beyond_numbers_reduced.pdf


 
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Postby Piratis » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:52 pm

I didn't "request" any pro-Annan propaganda and yet PRIO send it to me as I am sure did to 10s of thousands of others. Of course they would claim that they took no position on the Annan plan, but anybody reading the material they send could immidietly see this.

It is similar to a TC claiming he is "independent". There is a huge difference between what you claim and what you are.
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Postby CopperLine » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:13 pm

Let's bring this to a conclusion Piratis, because it is now just tedious.

The conclusion takes two parts : 1. Independence is whatever Piratis says it is. 2. Piratis' ideas are completely independent of the world around him.
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