Cyprus-Forum.com

[CopperLine]

Piratis,

the CoE reports mentions the "trnc" without quotes only when it is quoting what TCs said.

Simply not true. Read it again Piratis. Or do you want a randomy picked example ? Here :

Some of these people have gained TRNC citizenship after five years of residence, in accordance with the relevant legislation in the TRNC, which in fact is similar to the relevant legislation in Southern Cyprus.

My god !!! the CoE report not only failed to use scare quotes but they also referred to the RoC as 'Southern Cyprus'. "Quick !!!Run !!! ... the sky will fall in."

Or maybe this extract :

Therefore, the Turkish Cypriot authorities have the competence and all the means to conduct their own census themselves. The results of the latest official census, which was held on 15 December 1996 in the TRNC, are reliable and provide us with the actual population structure of the Northern Cyprus.

Not only does it not use quotation marks - I'll put this in bold for you Piratis - it also says The results of the latest official census, which was held on 15 December 1996 in the TRNC, are reliable and provide us with the actual population structure of the Northern Cyprus Yes a committee Rapporteur or a CoE Assembly committee has confirmed - but Piratis has ignored, or more likely, not read - that the TRNC census was reliable.

[Actually the latest census, which comprises part of the data for the PRIO report is 2006]

[Piratis]

Piratis,

the CoE reports mentions the "trnc" without quotes only when it is quoting what TCs said.

Simply not true. Read it again Piratis. Or do you want a randomy picked example ? Here :

Some of these people have gained TRNC citizenship after five years of residence, in accordance with the relevant legislation in the TRNC, which in fact is similar to the relevant legislation in Southern Cyprus.

My god !!! the CoE report not only failed to use scare quotes but they also referred to the RoC as 'Southern Cyprus'. "Quick !!!Run !!! ... the sky will fall in."

Or maybe this extract :

Therefore, the Turkish Cypriot authorities have the competence and all the means to conduct their own census themselves. The results of the latest official census, which was held on 15 December 1996 in the TRNC, are reliable and provide us with the actual population structure of the Northern Cyprus.

Not only does it not use quotation marks - I'll put this in bold for you Piratis - it also says The results of the latest official census, which was held on 15 December 1996 in the TRNC, are reliable and provide us with the actual population structure of the Northern Cyprus Yes a committee Rapporteur or a CoE Assembly committee has confirmed - but Piratis has ignored, or more likely, not read - that the TRNC census was reliable.

[Actually the latest census, which comprises part of the data for the PRIO report is 2006]

Cooperline, has your propaganda dropped even lower. As I wrote before you have always targeted those people who had very little knowledge of the Cyprus problem and history, but now you apparently target only those who would not even bother to click on simple link and read a document to find out that you are lying.

Here is the report again:
http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm


What you refer to is: APPENDIX 6, DISSENTING OPINION OF MR. MEVLÜT ÇAVUŞOĞLU.

Followed by: APPENDIX 7 DISSENTING OPINION OF MR. MEHMET TEKELİOĞLU

[CopperLine]

Piratis,
What propaganda ?!!! You are the one who posted the report in the first place. I read it and I quoted it back to you. What is soauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Again you protest too much .... The error is yours. It is you who quoted with such conviction the CoE Assembly report, and it is you who insisted this report was definitive and unassailable in its integrity and reliability. I on the other hand made none of these assertions.

The moment I point out the errors and inconsistencies of your claims you have the shamelessness of calling me a liar.

Sir, you are an oaf.

[Let me add, Oaf, that a dissenting opinion or a minority report is an integral part of any CoE Assembly Committee report and that it is dissenting does not warrant it being discounted or dismissed in the way that you choose to do].

[Piratis]

Relax CopperLine. It is not that I am so good and you so bad. It is just that my "job" of simply presenting the truth is way easier than yours. I am sure that if we were to change sides I would do way worst than you.

[CopperLine]

And a happy new year to you too, Piratis.


And an old new year present from the CoE Assembly - not a Committee Report but an adopted text

http://assembly.coe.int/main.asp?Link=/documents/adoptedtext/ta04/eres1376.htm

Resolution 1376 (2004)1

Cyprus


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. The Parliamentary Assembly is profoundly disappointed by the failure, following the massive “no” vote by the Greek Cypriot community, of the international community’s efforts to end the division of Cyprus and enable the two Cypriot communities to join the European Union together on 1 May 2004. However, it respects the choice made by the Greek Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriots in separate and simultaneous referenda. It understands that more time may be needed for the Greek Cypriot population to gain confidence and develop trust in the new, more positive attitude of the Turkish Cypriots, and of Turkey.

2. It pays tribute to Mr Kofi Annan, Secretary General of the United Nations, and his colleagues, who have made a tremendous contribution towards achieving a settlement of the Cyprus problem.

3. It pays tribute to the Turkish Cypriots, who supported the Annan Plan by an overwhelming majority, thus opting for a future in Europe. The international community, and in particular the Council of Europe and the European Union, cannot ignore or betray the expressed desire of a majority of Turkish Cypriots for greater openness and should take rapid and appropriate steps to encourage it. The Turkish Cypriots’ international isolation must cease.

4. The Assembly therefore welcomes the support expressed by several European political leaders for financial assistance for the Turkish Cypriots and an easing of the international sanctions against them. The United Nations should also consider whether the resolutions on which the sanctions are based are still justified.

5. The Assembly considers it unfair for the Turkish Cypriot community, which has expressed clear support for a reunited and European Cyprus, to continue to be denied representation in the European political debate. Such continued isolation may help strengthen the positions of those who are opposing a unified Cyprus.

6.The Assembly therefore decides to associate more closely elected representatives of the Turkish Cypriot community in the work of the Parliamentary Assembly and its committees, beyond the framework of Assembly Resolution 1113 (1997) on the situation in Cyprus and integrate them into the Cypriot delegation.


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1. Assembly debate on 29 April 2004 (15th Sitting) (see Doc. 10161, report of the Political Affairs Committee, rapporteur: Mr Eörsi; and Doc. 10164, opinion of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, rapporteur: Mr Jurgens).
Text adopted by the Assembly on 29 April 2004 (15th Sitting).

[pantheman]

Piratis,

the CoE reports mentions the "trnc" without quotes only when it is quoting what TCs said.

Simply not true. Read it again Piratis. Or do you want a randomy picked example ? Here :

Some of these people have gained TRNC citizenship after five years of residence, in accordance with the relevant legislation in the TRNC, which in fact is similar to the relevant legislation in Southern Cyprus.

My god !!! the CoE report not only failed to use scare quotes but they also referred to the RoC as 'Southern Cyprus'. "Quick !!!Run !!! ... the sky will fall in."

Or maybe this extract :

Therefore, the Turkish Cypriot authorities have the competence and all the means to conduct their own census themselves. The results of the latest official census, which was held on 15 December 1996 in the TRNC, are reliable and provide us with the actual population structure of the Northern Cyprus.

Not only does it not use quotation marks - I'll put this in bold for you Piratis - it also says The results of the latest official census, which was held on 15 December 1996 in the TRNC, are reliable and provide us with the actual population structure of the Northern Cyprus Yes a committee Rapporteur or a CoE Assembly committee has confirmed - but Piratis has ignored, or more likely, not read - that the TRNC census was reliable.

[Actually the latest census, which comprises part of the data for the PRIO report is 2006]

here you go again copperline, seems it is you who is picking and choosing. The CoE has made many demands on the Illegally held northern cyprus which you have chosen to ignore, but now all of a sudden seems the CoE report is in your favour and YOU accept its findings.

How can anyone trust an illegal state, with violations of human rights and international law to conduct ANY form of census or anything else for that matter? But I guess as a turk you are happy to play the same tune and be selective yourselves when it comes to official information.

I give you this, you are clever with your wording and your choice of words, but make no mistake I am onto you mate.

have a happy new year, cos your gonna need it.

[CopperLine]

Pantheman,
Me old mucker, happy new year to you too. You're always 'on to something', but you never quite know what.

I'm not 'picking and choosing'. I've never rejected what CoE has said, and certainly not what Piratis posted on this thread. All I said was (a) the PRIO report was more reliable on its population reporting (and certainly more recent). I mentioned just a few of the inherent problems of population measures and classification; (b) that demographic analysis should not, as far as possible, be subject to political manipulations, and that in this regard the PRIO report was again more reliable than the CoE Assembly report; (c) that Piratis' criticism about the use or non-use of scare quotes was a trivial (I think my word was 'pathetic') objection to demographic analysis, and missed the point about probolems of classification; (d) that Piratis' lauding of the CoE Assembly report was inconsistent with the actual text of the full report; (e) the CoE Assembly report is not the same as an adopted text, and I highlighted the difference by posting an example of an adopted text. I made no comment about whether I accept 'its findings', instead you made an assumption - again.

How can anyone trust an illegal state, .... to conduct ANY form of census ...

Well that's a question that you'll have to put to all the international organisations - from the UN agencies, to the EU, to private banks, to utility companies and so on and so forth - who regularly use official north Cyprus population data in their operations. Maybe you're right Pantheman, maybe it shouldn't be trusted beacuse it is from an 'illegal state' - but thousands of organisations and millions of dollars think otherwise.

[Piratis]

CopperLine, stop hiding behind your finger. You like the PRIO report simply because it adopts the numbers of your pseudo state. If anybody could simply trust the numbers that your side gives then an independent investigation on this issue would not be necessary.

What makes such an independent investigation necessary is exactly the fact that it is well known that the numbers of Settlers that TCs publish are intentionally way less than the truth.

So what is the point of making an "independent" report where they base their results on the numbers that your side gives, the unreliability of which is what made the need for an independent report necessary in the first place?

On the other hand the CoE report doesn't just eat and repeat the Turkish propaganda, but instead makes a true independent investigation of the issue. Thats why you don't like it.

[zan]

Relax CopperLine. It is not that I am so good and you so bad. It is just that my "job" of simply presenting the truth is way easier than yours. I am sure that if we were to change sides I would do way worst than you.

Hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa...Now that is funny.......Howe many of your Non Greek Cypriots are you going to kick out baby........Where are those figures.....

[Nikitas]

"but thousands of organisations and millions of dollars think otherwise."

Let us keep a sense of perspective here. Thousands of organisation are in the TRNC and they use the official statistics of the TRNC "government". It is probably more like dozens if we are honest with ourselves here.