This is an article published in Australia by the Greek Lobby....now how can we live together?
Courtesy of www.atcanews.org from Herald Sun Newspaper
Old Mentalities Have Not Changed
Old Mentalities Have Not Changed
by Deejay » Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:08 pm
Old Mentalities Have Not Changed
This is an article published in Australia by the Greek Lobby....now how can we live together?
Courtesy of www.atcanews.org from Herald Sun Newspaper
This is an article published in Australia by the Greek Lobby....now how can we live together?
Courtesy of www.atcanews.org from Herald Sun Newspaper
- Deejay
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Re: Old Mentalities Have Not Changed
by cannedmoose » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:15 pm
Deejay wrote:Old Mentalities Have Not ChangedThis is an article published in Australia by the Greek Lobby....now how can we live together?
Just having looked quickly at ATCA news, it seems only to contain a similarly biased opinion
Therefore, don't try to pretend that your argument is a moderate one on this issue DJ. Incidentally, welcome to the forum, I hope your contributions will be positive.
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by magikthrill » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:23 pm
I read the article but I don't see any mention of how TCs and GCs cant live together. Care to enlighten me?
And generally when you read articles from Greeks abroad take into account that these are people that most likely
a) Visit Greece once a year (ie have never lived there or havent lived there since the early 70s)
b) Do not attain Greek citizenship
c) Would never give up their current country (which is no longer a host but a home to them) to move back to Greece
In other words, they are more out of touch with the reality of modern Greece and Cyprus. Eg. the author probably has no idea that there have been talks between the two communities following 1974 until the Annan Plan. I might be wrong but that is what I believe.
And generally when you read articles from Greeks abroad take into account that these are people that most likely
a) Visit Greece once a year (ie have never lived there or havent lived there since the early 70s)
b) Do not attain Greek citizenship
c) Would never give up their current country (which is no longer a host but a home to them) to move back to Greece
In other words, they are more out of touch with the reality of modern Greece and Cyprus. Eg. the author probably has no idea that there have been talks between the two communities following 1974 until the Annan Plan. I might be wrong but that is what I believe.
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by cannedmoose » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:29 pm
boulio wrote:mos tof the greeks of australia(since i have a few there )havent stepped foot in greece since they left in the sixties and seventies.
Exactly, it's not like being in the UK where it's a simple 5 hour journey (and relatively inexpensive). Therefore, many of the Cypriots who left for far-flung destinations during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s have little idea of how mentalities on the island itself have changed. In my experience they either tend to be very conciliatory or very hardline nationalistic. Distant separation from the scene of action doesn't appear to lend itself to centrism.
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by Deejay » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:10 am
Guys guys guys,
Don't get me wrong. I want Greek and Turkish Cypriots to be proud of their motherlands. Whether one likes it or not, our culture,influence and history comes from the respected countries.
In life it's good to be passionate about something. But what I am saying it is not right to -
1) Offend a 'Whole Turkish Race' and say the Turkish people occupy Anatolia and that Anatolia is Greek. Turkey is a recognised country. An article such as this can really land you in hot water. There is people in Australia that do not know about Europe and their perceptions can be influenced dramatically, leading to a dangerous situation. No recognised country should bare this abuse.
Cannedmoose, you said ATCA is biased and I can see where you are coming from. To tell you the truth ATCA was setup to combat propoganda such as the above article. ATCA would probably have never been setup if it wasn't for misleading articles. If it is ok to put across articles such as above, that means we have every right to put our views forward. The difference on this ocassion is that we (Turkish) people do not put it out there to attack, we put it there to defend our stance.
I met a young Greek Cypriot guy the other day. He was such a great guy, easy going and good to talk with. We chatted about Cyprus. He told me he had just finished his military service, and he talked of how Greek Cypriots are made to dislike Turkish Cypriots and Turkish people from mainland Turkey. Even whilst in the army he told me that the soldiers are taught to fight the Turkish soldiers and not how to fight a war.
These are the attitudes that the Sth Cyprus Greek government is putting across to young Greek people. Simply look at the article above, it attempts to incite a sense of pride about Hellenism (Thats fair enough), but then portrays the Turkish people to be barbarians. This is very insulting.
I went to the Greek islands last year and all I ever heard from the Greek youth when I told them I would be going to Turkey for my next stop was 'How the Turkish people stole their land in Anatolia.' They told me Istanbul and Izmir was Greek, and teh way they explained the situation, it was as if the Turks landed in the towns yesterday and did what they had to do!! They told me not to go to Turkey and if I do to watch out. The youth were complaining about a problem that was a good 500 years ago. I could not believe what I was hearing. The great 'Megalo Idea' is still alive amongst the youth, and yet the Turkish people are made out to be as the troublemakers.
I tell you one thing. The Turkish youth do not know anything about Megalo ideas or the Hellenism etc. Todays Turkish youth barely know the Cyprus problem. Yet we have our Greek neighbours who have not forgotten history. Don't you think that I, as a Turkish Cypriot have every right to feel threatened and prevent Cyprus from turning into a Greek Island?
What we must understand that Turkish Greek Cypriots cannot live together in Cyprus. We can only be the best of neighbours. Agreements between Denktas, & the late Kypriannou & Clerides were based on bi-zonal arrangements to make sure the same problems didn't occur.
I want you guys to read a quote of the Late Makarios -
The epic grandeur and glory of EOKA'S liberation struggle has laid the foundation - stone of national freedom. This freedom it is our sacred duty to safeguard and complete. National struggles never come to an end. They merely change their form, preserving deep down the same substance and the same content. The realisation of our hopes and aspirations is not complete under the Zurich and London Agreements. The glorious liberation struggle, who, whose fifth anniversary we celebrate today, has secured us advanced bastions and impregnable strongholds for our independence. From these bastions we will continue the struggle to complete victory. There is nothing impossible for man when he works for something he believes in. Let us work with faith for the future of our country and let us be certain that the task we began five years ago will soon be completed and bear fruit.
(Cyprus President Archbishop Makarios, 1st April 1960)
This is the reason why we will always be seperate. It is hard to fully understand the reason when Greeks want peace. Even if we try to understand, we cannot help but reference their ideologies (eg above). It is speeches such as this from respected Greek leaders that will always scar relationships in Cyprus.
YES we can eat, drink and dance together in Cyprus and abroad.
YES we can visit eachothers houses.
YES we can even use the same bus, plane or even give eachother a lift to the supermarket.
But at the end of the day we are NOT the same. Mihali goes home to his family and so does Ahmet. Mihali prays at the Church, and Ahmet prays at the Mosque. Mihali speaks Greek at home whilst Ahmet speaks Turkish. Mihali will support Greece in the World Cup Football, while Ahmet will support Turkey!!
We can sit here and talk about similarities between the Turkish and Greek Cypriots and that is great. But Greek and Turkish Cypriots also have similarities with Arabs, Italians Albanians, Macedonians so should we share a 'supposed identity' with them as well?
To conclude my thread Im here to have constructive discussion, and i thank all you guys for your constructive feedback.
Don't get me wrong. I want Greek and Turkish Cypriots to be proud of their motherlands. Whether one likes it or not, our culture,influence and history comes from the respected countries.
In life it's good to be passionate about something. But what I am saying it is not right to -
1) Offend a 'Whole Turkish Race' and say the Turkish people occupy Anatolia and that Anatolia is Greek. Turkey is a recognised country. An article such as this can really land you in hot water. There is people in Australia that do not know about Europe and their perceptions can be influenced dramatically, leading to a dangerous situation. No recognised country should bare this abuse.
Just having looked quickly at ATCA news, it seems only to contain a similarly biased opinion
Cannedmoose, you said ATCA is biased and I can see where you are coming from. To tell you the truth ATCA was setup to combat propoganda such as the above article. ATCA would probably have never been setup if it wasn't for misleading articles. If it is ok to put across articles such as above, that means we have every right to put our views forward. The difference on this ocassion is that we (Turkish) people do not put it out there to attack, we put it there to defend our stance.
I read the article but I don't see any mention of how TCs and GCs cant live together. Care to enlighten me?
I met a young Greek Cypriot guy the other day. He was such a great guy, easy going and good to talk with. We chatted about Cyprus. He told me he had just finished his military service, and he talked of how Greek Cypriots are made to dislike Turkish Cypriots and Turkish people from mainland Turkey. Even whilst in the army he told me that the soldiers are taught to fight the Turkish soldiers and not how to fight a war.
These are the attitudes that the Sth Cyprus Greek government is putting across to young Greek people. Simply look at the article above, it attempts to incite a sense of pride about Hellenism (Thats fair enough), but then portrays the Turkish people to be barbarians. This is very insulting.
I went to the Greek islands last year and all I ever heard from the Greek youth when I told them I would be going to Turkey for my next stop was 'How the Turkish people stole their land in Anatolia.' They told me Istanbul and Izmir was Greek, and teh way they explained the situation, it was as if the Turks landed in the towns yesterday and did what they had to do!! They told me not to go to Turkey and if I do to watch out. The youth were complaining about a problem that was a good 500 years ago. I could not believe what I was hearing. The great 'Megalo Idea' is still alive amongst the youth, and yet the Turkish people are made out to be as the troublemakers.
I tell you one thing. The Turkish youth do not know anything about Megalo ideas or the Hellenism etc. Todays Turkish youth barely know the Cyprus problem. Yet we have our Greek neighbours who have not forgotten history. Don't you think that I, as a Turkish Cypriot have every right to feel threatened and prevent Cyprus from turning into a Greek Island?
What we must understand that Turkish Greek Cypriots cannot live together in Cyprus. We can only be the best of neighbours. Agreements between Denktas, & the late Kypriannou & Clerides were based on bi-zonal arrangements to make sure the same problems didn't occur.
I want you guys to read a quote of the Late Makarios -
The epic grandeur and glory of EOKA'S liberation struggle has laid the foundation - stone of national freedom. This freedom it is our sacred duty to safeguard and complete. National struggles never come to an end. They merely change their form, preserving deep down the same substance and the same content. The realisation of our hopes and aspirations is not complete under the Zurich and London Agreements. The glorious liberation struggle, who, whose fifth anniversary we celebrate today, has secured us advanced bastions and impregnable strongholds for our independence. From these bastions we will continue the struggle to complete victory. There is nothing impossible for man when he works for something he believes in. Let us work with faith for the future of our country and let us be certain that the task we began five years ago will soon be completed and bear fruit.
(Cyprus President Archbishop Makarios, 1st April 1960)
This is the reason why we will always be seperate. It is hard to fully understand the reason when Greeks want peace. Even if we try to understand, we cannot help but reference their ideologies (eg above). It is speeches such as this from respected Greek leaders that will always scar relationships in Cyprus.
YES we can eat, drink and dance together in Cyprus and abroad.
YES we can visit eachothers houses.
YES we can even use the same bus, plane or even give eachother a lift to the supermarket.
But at the end of the day we are NOT the same. Mihali goes home to his family and so does Ahmet. Mihali prays at the Church, and Ahmet prays at the Mosque. Mihali speaks Greek at home whilst Ahmet speaks Turkish. Mihali will support Greece in the World Cup Football, while Ahmet will support Turkey!!
We can sit here and talk about similarities between the Turkish and Greek Cypriots and that is great. But Greek and Turkish Cypriots also have similarities with Arabs, Italians Albanians, Macedonians so should we share a 'supposed identity' with them as well?
To conclude my thread Im here to have constructive discussion, and i thank all you guys for your constructive feedback.
- Deejay
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- Posts: 33
- Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:55 pm
by Piratis » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:34 am
Deejay,
TCs do not own any specific part of Cyprus. Partition is not an option for you (except if we agree to it).
Therefore if you can't live with GCs then you can't live in Cyprus either. GCs are an integral part of Cyprus (the whole Cyprus) for 3500 years. You either have to get used to live with us, or move out of Cyprus if you can't.
[/quote]
TCs do not own any specific part of Cyprus. Partition is not an option for you (except if we agree to it).
Therefore if you can't live with GCs then you can't live in Cyprus either. GCs are an integral part of Cyprus (the whole Cyprus) for 3500 years. You either have to get used to live with us, or move out of Cyprus if you can't.
[/quote]
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by garbitsch » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:41 am
[/quote]Piratis wrote:Deejay,
TCs do not own any specific part of Cyprus. Partition is not an option for you (except if we agree to it).
Therefore if you can't live with GCs then you can't live in Cyprus either. GCs are an integral part of Cyprus (the whole Cyprus) for 3500 years. You either have to get used to live with us, or move out of Cyprus if you can't.
Beware! Piratis is threatening again!
DJ, this forum has no people having strong nationalist views. That's why I decided to write here. I used to speak with Greeks who just wanted to kill the whole Turkish race
and I was so pissed off that I started thinking each and every Greek share the same ideas. We have such people in Turkey aswell. These people are simply ignorant, brainwashed and have no capacity to think!-
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by Viewpoint » Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:44 am
Piratis
Thats why we are trying to agree partition with GCs.
How soon and conveniently you forget we have been down that road it didnt work we tried to wipe each other out, so we have been living seperately for 31 years which has worked why not accept it and make it permanent???
TCs do not own any specific part of Cyprus. Partition is not an option for you (except if we agree to it).
Thats why we are trying to agree partition with GCs.
Therefore if you can't live with GCs then you can't live in Cyprus either. GCs are an integral part of Cyprus (the whole Cyprus) for 3500 years. You either have to get used to live with us, or move out of Cyprus if you can't.
How soon and conveniently you forget we have been down that road it didnt work we tried to wipe each other out, so we have been living seperately for 31 years which has worked why not accept it and make it permanent???
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