Cyprus-Forum.com

[garbitsch]

Centuries of oppression by the Turks: Errm, ok you are showing your real face now! How about the oppression of the Turks in Aegean islands (especially in Crete) and in West Anatolia during the Greek occupation?

I am talking about Cyprus. But even if you count it like that, you will see that Greeks in general were oppressed a lot more by Turks than the other way around. I am not saying that there were no occasions that Turks or TCs were oppressed. I am simply saying that the amount of oppressions and the time that it lasted is simply not comparable.

You can not pretend to be the angel victims that now have to be rewarded on the expense of the evil GCs.

You should thank God that you were ruled by Ottomans, not by French, Spanish or Portuguese!!!

[Deejay]

I think it is best we keep the topic to Cyprus on this instance...as we are discussing the Cyprus issue in a Cyprus forum.

But before I move on, I must admit the Ottoman Empire was very extremely tolerant and appointed 'Millet Bashlari' (Ethnic Group Leaders) for each group eg Greeks , Armenians, Arabs, etc that reported to the Ottoman Empire. Each 'millet' had the ability to buy/sell land and trade. They had freedom but did have to pay higher tax than Muslims. I guess thats better than being killed or oppressed.

When the Ottoman Empire came to Cyprus in 1571, this system continued. This is the reason why the Greek civilisation in Cyprus flourishes to this day. I will give you something to think about. If the Ottoman Empire was an oppressor, why didn't they simply wipe out the Greek population of Cyprus in the 300 years of rule and replace them with Turkish people? It would have been very easy to do. But they didn't. Why? Because of respect.

Let us not forget that the Greek population of Cyprus welcomed the Ottoman Empire to Cyprus after the Venetians oppressed the Greeks for many years before that. Many Archbishops were hanged and persecuted under the Venetian rule. The Ottomans and Greeks fought on the same side to rid the Venetians.

Under the Ottoman rule there was no problems. The Greek people of Cyprus did not feel that they were governed by another race because the Government did not interfere in the daily lives of Greeks. Greeks went to churches, played Greek music, attended their own schools and lived their lives.

When the British Empire annexed Cyprus, I believe the Greeks felt uneasy and this is where their sense of patriotism grew, and unfortunately they took it out on the Turkish Cypriots....the people that did not deserve it!

[Piratis]

Deejay, the way you talk simply shows the racism that you people have.

You say that we should be satisfied that we were allowed to live and that you didn't perform a genocide on us!! Do you expect us to say "Thank you" also?

You believe that you are the super race that has to get the super rights and super privileges, while the others are inferior to you and should be satisfied that you spared their lives.

[Deejay]

Deejay, the way you talk simply shows the racism that you people have.

You say that we should be satisfied that we were allowed to live and that you didn't perform a genocide on us!! Do you expect us to say "Thank you" also?

You believe that you are the super race that has to get the super rights and super privileges, while the others are inferior to you and should be satisfied that you spared their lives.

No Piratis you have understood me wrong. What I am trying to say is that compared to the Roman, Venetian and other Empires that ruled Cyprus or the region, the Ottoman Empire was most tolerant. The Greeks were also very greatful for the way the Ottoman Empire governed. It allowed the Greek culture and people to flourish compared to what they had previously.

I don't expect the Greeks to bow down to the Turkish people and say 'thank-you, we are forever in your debt.' I just want the Greeks to acknowledge it and say 'Yes, that's right.' and not criticise the Turkish people about oppression coz we all know it isn't true.

The Turkish people are NOT a super race. We are just as human as the Indonesians, the Zambians and the Greeks. We certainly are not the 'BARBARIANS' that our good friends the Greeks have labelled us.

The Greeks have every right to govern themselves, just as the Turkish people also. That means uneducated racist and childish remarks such as Istanbul is Constantinople and Izmir is Smyrna and Cyprus is Greek should stop. The more the Greeks 'bitch' about it, the more the world gets tired about hearing the same crap! One criticism is that the Greeks should really move on with their lives and be the best that they can be and set an example of their proud culture and history to the world.

I don't know if you have realised this, but this is what the Turkish people of the world are doing. If you get caught up in the past for too long, your whole nation falls behind. Im afraid this is what is happening to a proportion of the Greek people to date. (I believe you have read about my experiences in Greece in another forum on this site).

Cheers.

[Piratis]

Deejay, The Ottomans oppressed Greek Cypriots. If you disagree, then I guess you would have no problem to live with rights that we had at that time? So stop the excuses of the type "we were better than X and Y so it means we didn't oppress you".

I don't care about the cities in Turkey, but what I know is that the cities in Cyprus are called Kerynia, Morfou etc. What I know is that there is one Cyprus, and RoC is the only legal state on it.

I don't know how long it will take you to accept this. However both TCs and Turkey will loose big time until you accept it.

[erolz]

Deejay, The Ottomans oppressed Greek Cypriots.

Can you agree that relative to the previous rulers of Cyprus that ottoman rule was 'less' oppressive to GC (and especially Greek orthodox Church in Cyprus?' Or is that something you are unable to accept?

[Piratis]

Can you agree that relative to the previous rulers of Cyprus that ottoman rule was 'less' oppressive to GC (and especially Greek orthodox Church in Cyprus?' Or is that something you are unable to accept?

For the church yes, it was less opressive than some of the other rulers. For the people it wasn't less opressive than most others though.

Why do you expect us to be satisfied because the Ottomans were less oppressive than some others????

If I come and beat you up, what would you think if I tell you "hey, that other guy beat you up more the other day. So you should be happy"?

[erolz]

Why do you expect us to be satisfied because the Ottomans were less oppressive than some others????

Not at all - I just wondered if you could accept the historical facts - even if that meant accpeting that the hated Turks were not actually the worst people in the world (back then) as colonial rulers.

However I do find you connecting what happened in Cyprus under the ottomans and what happend 'under' modern Turkey somewhat strange. Like I can understand animosity between say (older) British people and (older) German people based on their personal experience of the WW2 - but not understand animosity by the French against the British for Agincourt, or British against the French for 1066.

[Deejay]

Can you agree that relative to the previous rulers of Cyprus that ottoman rule was 'less' oppressive to GC (and especially Greek orthodox Church in Cyprus?' Or is that something you are unable to accept?

For the church yes, it was less opressive than some of the other rulers. For the people it wasn't less opressive than most others though.

Why do you expect us to be satisfied because the Ottomans were less oppressive than some others????

If I come and beat you up, what would you think if I tell you "hey, that other guy beat you up more the other day. So you should be happy"?

Hence my argument Piratis...let everybody govern themselves. A nation of people will always complain when they are ruled by another nation even if they build their houses of gold. It is because a nation of people wants to rule itself.

Let the TRNC rule itself...we dont want Greeks to rule Turkish Cypriots..I'm not Greek..just like you arent Turkish and didn't like the Ottoman Empire.

[magikthrill]

Hence my argument Piratis...let everybody govern themselves. A nation of people will always complain when they are ruled by another nation even if they build their houses of gold. It is because a nation of people wants to rule itself.

Let the TRNC rule itself...we dont want Greeks to rule Turkish Cypriots..I'm not Greek..just like you arent Turkish and didn't like the Ottoman Empire.

heres the problem deejay:
the "trnc" doesnt belong to the Turkish Cypriots alone. The entire island belongs to both communities. YOu cant just steal peoples property, kick them out and make your own governing state.

and dont worry the Greeks dont care to rule you. and neither do the GCs.