Cyprus-Forum.com

[bilako22]

Piratis , check you history . Alexander the Great invaded Central Asia , one of the lands of the barbarians. He certainly came across tribes of Turks and Mongols , as well as others.

[denizaksulu]

Piratis , check you history . Alexander the Great invaded Central Asia , one of the lands of the barbarians. He certainly came across tribes of Turks and Mongols , as well as others.

But what Piratis will now do, is to deny Alexander being Greek and state he is the son of Philip of Macedonia, so he is Macedonian and not Greek. Later he will add that (when it suits him ofcourse) Macedonians are Greek. They will pick and choose at will.

[zan]

Piratis , check you history . Alexander the Great invaded Central Asia , one of the lands of the barbarians. He certainly came across tribes of Turks and Mongols , as well as others.

But what Piratis will now do, is to deny Alexander being Greek and state he is the son of Philip of Macedonia, so he is Macedonian and not Greek. Later he will add that (when it suits him ofcourse) Macedonians are Greek. They will pick and choose at will.

Was Will Greek

[denizaksulu]

Piratis , check you history . Alexander the Great invaded Central Asia , one of the lands of the barbarians. He certainly came across tribes of Turks and Mongols , as well as others.

But what Piratis will now do, is to deny Alexander being Greek and state he is the son of Philip of Macedonia, so he is Macedonian and not Greek. Later he will add that (when it suits him ofcourse) Macedonians are Greek. They will pick and choose at will.

Was Will Greek

[cymart]

Especially as the Cypriots did not learn from history,there seems to be little point continually citing various examples to support one viewpoint or the other.....Why not try to deal with today and what you are all going to do when the new initiative to find a solution gets underway in a few months time?
For those of you who read the articles in last Sundays Politis which myself and Bananiot recommended,it is pretty obvious that you made a serious mistake in not correctly judging all the international factors at work in your favour in 2002-2004 when world attention was focused on Cyprus and Turkeys bid to start E.U. accession negotiations etc.As the writer quite correctly says,all of Cyprus would have joined the E.U.then and consequently any problems in enforcing an agreed solution,whether it was the Annan Plan or anything else,would have been the E.U's responsibility to sort out,in co-ordination with the the U.N. whose role here would have been upgraded in the event that the Security Council had been allowed to adopt it as the basis for a solution.....but as we all know,Papad. sent the old fart Iacovou to Moscow a few days before to secure a Russian veto and the whole process was wrecked.And don't forget that Turkey would have been under such pressure then with their E.U. member ship talks date hanging in the balance that they would have not dared to renegade on a Cyprus solution that had been adopted by the E.U. and other International bodies and would have had to comply.......
Now,nearly four years later Turkey has begun E.U. accession talks without any serious hindrance from even Cyprus and without making the slightest concessions here as there is no longer any international pressure on them!!Furthermore ,and perhaps worse,it is now only a possibility that they will ever get full membership instead of some kind of 'special relationship' with the E.U. and the military in Ankara are well aware of this so consequently there is no need or hurry for them to make a deal here for the indefinite future,unless it meets all their requirements in a way which a leader like Papad. on this side would never accept!
The bitter reality is that while we had the chance to get a deal in 2004 which did not meet all of our requirements(what one could have anyway?) our prospects are now infinitely worse unless the new initiative can persuade Turkey to make concessions in our favour when they have no real leverage on them to do so!And under such circumstances,if our leadership remains the same and once again refuses to accept what is on offer this time,Turkey is still the winner because it will not only continue to colonise the north irreversibly but will also have international support or at least tolerance to do so because the international community will consider the Greek-Cypriots liable for the failure to find a solution...
This is where we find ourselves at the beginning of 2008,despite the optimism the establishment here tries to portray due to our Euro zone entry etc which might just offer a window of opportunity for co-operation between the two sides here.It is also worth noting that Papad. and his entourage no longer say much about prospects for a solution,as if they know there are none and want to prepare us to accept that fact,even though many people realised long ago!Of course this suits what the economic and political establishment here see mistakenly as in their best interests,so it's no problem for them!

[denizaksulu]

Especially as the Cypriots did not learn from history,there seems to be little point continually citing various examples to support one viewpoint or the other.....Why not try to deal with today and what you are all going to do when the new initiative to find a solution gets underway in a few months time?
For those of you who read the articles in last Sundays Politis which myself and Bananiot recommended,it is pretty obvious that you made a serious mistake in not correctly judging all the international factors at work in your favour in 2002-2004 when world attention was focused on Cyprus and Turkeys bid to start E.U. accession negotiations etc.As the writer quite correctly says,all of Cyprus would have joined the E.U.then and consequently any problems in enforcing an agreed solution,whether it was the Annan Plan or anything else,would have been the E.U's responsibility to sort out,in co-ordination with the the U.N. whose role here would have been upgraded in the event that the Security Council had been allowed to adopt it as the basis for a solution.....but as we all know,Papad. sent the old fart Iacovou to Moscow a few days before to secure a Russian veto and the whole process was wrecked.And don't forget that Turkey would have been under such pressure then with their E.U. member ship talks date hanging in the balance that they would have not dared to renegade on a Cyprus solution that had been adopted by the E.U. and other International bodies and would have had to comply.......
Now,nearly four years later Turkey has begun E.U. accession talks without any serious hindrance from even Cyprus and without making the slightest concessions here as there is no longer any international pressure on them!!Furthermore ,and perhaps worse,it is now only a possibility that they will ever get full membership instead of some kind of 'special relationship' with the E.U. and the military in Ankara are well aware of this so consequently there is no need or hurry for them to make a deal here for the indefinite future,unless it meets all their requirements in a way which a leader like Papad. on this side would never accept!
The bitter reality is that while we had the chance to get a deal in 2004 which did not meet all of our requirements(what one could have anyway?) our prospects are now infinitely worse unless the new initiative can persuade Turkey to make concessions in our favour when they have no real leverage on them to do so!And under such circumstances,if our leadership remains the same and once again refuses to accept what is on offer this time,Turkey is still the winner because it will not only continue to colonise the north irreversibly but will also have international support or at least tolerance to do so because the international community will consider the Greek-Cypriots liable for the failure to find a solution...
This is where we find ourselves at the beginning of 2008,despite the optimism the establishment here tries to portray due to our Euro zone entry etc which might just offer a window of opportunity for co-operation between the two sides here.It is also worth noting that Papad. and his entourage no longer say much about prospects for a solution,as if they know there are none and want to prepare us to accept that fact,even though many people realised long ago!Of course this suits what the economic and political establishment here see mistakenly as in their best interests,so it's no problem for them!

A thought provoking post Cymart. However its like crying over spilt milk. But lets say the TCs had agreed to a re-unification, and EU supervising and ironing out any unresolved problems. Do you think they (EU)would ignore the demands of the majority , which are the GCs. I would have hoped they would, but would the TCs take that gamble?

[Piratis]

I think what he is trying to say is that the problem for them started in 1974 and that I can live with....It was fine with them when it was us at the receiving end

That was your conclusion from what I wrote Zan?

Let me reiterate, so you will pretend you do not understand again and make even more fool of yourself:

The Cyprus problem as it exists today did in fact start in 1974. If however you want to include in the "Cyprus Problem" every time Cypriots had a problem, and look at the sequence of events and the root of the problem, then you should start from the time of the Ottoman rule where the Cypriots where butchered by the 10s of thousands and where allowed almost no rights.

So maybe your problem was just that one decade in which you lost as many people as you killed, and when you were killing others by the 1000s and 10s of thousands it was not a problem for you, but for us it was a problem Zan.

[Viewpoint]

I think what he is trying to say is that the problem for them started in 1974 and that I can live with....It was fine with them when it was us at the receiving end

That was your conclusion from what I wrote Zan?

Let me reiterate, so you will pretend you do not understand again and make even more fool of yourself:

The Cyprus problem as it exists today did in fact start in 1974. If however you want to include in the "Cyprus Problem" every time Cypriots had a problem, and look at the sequence of events and the root of the problem, then you should start from the time of the Ottoman rule where the Cypriots where butchered by the 10s of thousands and where allowed almost no rights.

So maybe your problem was just that one decade in which you lost as many people as you killed, and when you were killing others by the 1000s and 10s of thousands it was not a problem for you, but for us it was a problem Zan.

When was the moment in history where you had the opportunity to unite as 1 people? and not as conquered or ruled people. Why did you not say we are all Cypriots back then? why did you want to gift Cyprus to Greece against the wished of a large % of your "Cypriots"??* You conveniently excuse your own wrong doings and blame others.

[Piratis]

We never had such opportunity because you wanted to be separate, you kept fighting for partition, and you continued to be the pawn of Turkey in Cyprus instead of acting as Cypriots.

I accept our wrong doings for what they are: Our participation, along with you, in an inter-communal conflict where both sides lost a few 100s of people each. On the other hand when will you accept your far greater share in blame, instead of looking for excuses to continue with more crimes against us?

[shahmaran]

It was a win or loose situation my friend, it had to end in the way it did, by someone putting an end to it, just because that was us, it does not make us the "greater contributor" because it could just as well been you, am i wrong?