Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

:roll: You've been spending too much time listening to GCs Tim...A few months ago they were ALL claiming that the father had killed his own family. This was the official GC viewpoint.  The GCs will never admit to ANYTHING. They'll ALWAYS resort to blaming someone else.....Even if you were to get racially assaulted in Cyprus, the GCs are the kind of people that would think "it's our country, he's the one who came here, thus, this racist attack is HIS fault".Or..."We didn't venture out of our country to hurt no one, if you've got a problem with getting racially abused then you shouldn't of come here". 

My main source here is the Turkish Cypriot daily Afrika, in fact. I will try to get more information about this if you really want me to.

Its funny that often we are told that the press in the north is so unreliable.Now we are wondering what 'really' happened in the 'Barbarlik Muzesi'. All I remember of those days was the constant firing of automatic weapons We were in a house only half a mile down the road just behind the Ledra Palace Hotel where we were under constant sniper fire).

Mind boggles that anyone had the time and presence of mind to 'settle differences' as per allegations. It would make interesting reading if you do find this link. I think it was produced here last year when the subject had cropped up then.

It is very hard to separate truth from fiction, I know. I appreciate that a lot of horrendous things have happened on this island. It is perfectly possible that the murder in the bath took place as it is depicted in that photograph. I do remember that about a year ago there was some discussion in the TC press about this famous photograph, the suggestion being that not all was as it seemed. It suddenly struck me on re-reading Kikapu's moving account of his experiences in 1963 that he has accepted that photograph at face value - and Kikapu is not one to be easily taken in by propaganda. That's why I thought I would add a note about this. I will see if I can dig up anything.

Tim,

I don't have time right now, but hopefully at the end of the day I can give you more information on the above subject. My mentioning of the "Bathtub murders" in my story was what I heard as an 8 year old in 1963 after our release, so that event had only occurred few days earlier. My whole story was based on from the eyes of an 8 year old from that time and was not agreeing or disagreeing on this events propaganda merits. We had this discussion last year on the forum and will give you that information later today.

Thanks for appreciating my 1963 story Tim and you are correct, that I do not get fooled when it comes to propaganda. You will find some of our discussions on the forum interesting from last year.

[Tim Drayton]

Here is another article (in Turkish):

http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:pt5 ... =clnk&cd=7

[halil]

@birkibrisli
@kikapu

pls read Hasan Hastürer from today daily kibris

http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/index.php ... /Ana_sayfa

also read Hüseyin Ekmekci


http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/index.php ... /Ana_sayfa

[denizaksulu]

I was starting to wonder if had just dreamed about the debate in the TC press about the Kumsal massacre and the "children in the bath" photograph, but I am starting to track one or two articles down.

Here are a couple of articles in Turkish that appeared in the press last February:

http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/printa.ph ... 0&art=5223

http://www.volkangazetesi.net/index.asp ... ewsid=2767

I am in no way trying to deny the horror that was experienced by many Turkish Cypriots in 1963-1964, but on the other hand the official account of the events at that house in Kumsal on 24 December 1963 do not entirely seem to ring true. This is important given the way the Turkish Cypriot leadership has exploited this event - having turned the house into a "Museum of Barbarism" and preserved the bloodstained bath - to bring up a generation of Turkish Cypriots to believe that Turkish and Greek Cypriots can never again live together.

Thanks for these links Tim. I found the first link rather confusing. No first hand witnesses only 'hearsay' (re: the bath tubs murdrs). What do you think?

[Tim Drayton]

I was starting to wonder if had just dreamed about the debate in the TC press about the Kumsal massacre and the "children in the bath" photograph, but I am starting to track one or two articles down.

Here are a couple of articles in Turkish that appeared in the press last February:

http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/printa.ph ... 0&art=5223

http://www.volkangazetesi.net/index.asp ... ewsid=2767

I am in no way trying to deny the horror that was experienced by many Turkish Cypriots in 1963-1964, but on the other hand the official account of the events at that house in Kumsal on 24 December 1963 do not entirely seem to ring true. This is important given the way the Turkish Cypriot leadership has exploited this event - having turned the house into a "Museum of Barbarism" and preserved the bloodstained bath - to bring up a generation of Turkish Cypriots to believe that Turkish and Greek Cypriots can never again live together.

Thanks for these links Tim. I found the first link rather confusing. No first hand witnesses only 'hearsay' (re: the bath tubs murdrs). What do you think?

I am trying to make sense of them myself. I just posted these links as proof that this debate really went on in the TC press, and I did not just imagine it all. It was apparently sparked off by an interview with the dentist, Dr. Erdoğan Mirata, in the Kıbrıs newspaper in which he claims to have been the person who took the famous bathtub photograph.

http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/index.php ... c_Haberler

This apparently provoked a lot of debate, with claims being made that other people were the photographer, and certain people making claims that the bodies were carefully rearranged to make a good propaganda photograph.

In the original article, the interveiwer asked the following controversal question:

"KIBRIS. Biliyorsunuz, Kumsal'daki baskının, bizzat TMT tarafından yapıldığını, amacın da Türkiye'nin adaya ilgisini çekmek olduğunu söyleyenler de var?"

TRANSLATION

"You know, there are those who say that the Kumsal raid was made by the TMT itself and its aim was to attract Turkey's interest towards the island."

The dentist himself vehemently rejected this allegation, but again this remark sparked off a lot of debate, and in some quarters the claim was made that the TMT was indeed responsible.

I know that there was some interesting stuff in Afrika at the time, but this paper does not seem to keep long-term archives of articles on the Internet.

Yes, I am as confused as you are at the moment. I look forward to Kikapu putting us straight with his take on this incident.

[Get Real!]

Yes, I am as confused as you are at the moment. I look forward to Kikapu putting us straight with his take on this incident.

I hope you realize what you’re asking for here because you’ve just ordered the FULL 16 volume saga of the Kick-a-poo chronicles…

[denizaksulu]

I know the dentist well. I went to school with his sister in Kophinou. I know he is a keen photographer. The TMT did admit to re-arranging the bodies of the victims for propaganda purposes.

Bloody politicians.

[Tim Drayton]

Re: the bathtub massacre. This has been discussed on an earlier thread here:

http://69.16.253.89/cyprus9643.html

[Tim Drayton]

And here:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

[bigOz]

I do not know where all the conspiracy theories are coming from and it is especially annoying when I witnessed and actually visited to see the scene soon afterthe massacres. I slipped in to have a look when my father (who was a senior police commander at thge time) left me outside the house in question because he was visiting a colleague waiting there.

Although I got slapped very heavily accross the head for entering into the bathroom (if I remember correctly it was to the left of the enterance as soon as you walked in, but then I might remember wrong...) What I witnessed left no room for anyone setting anything up! Possibly a month or more after, and there were still pieces of brains and gore stuck on the ceiling + walls of the tub. It was not a case of positioning the children and the mother in a buth tub to take a picture.

It was not to be the last time such atrocities took place in Cyprus against the TC women and children - so excuuuseeee me if I cannot see what the problem is! Worse things happened in the following months and years in many TC villages (reminiscent of the mass murders and graves of the Jews and Bosnians!). The only difference was, at the time the level of communication by newsagents and photographers was very restricted and there was no media activity using videos, satellite communications, mobile telephones or computers! Add to that, TCs were not in charge of the government hence the communications network with foreign countries, so the perpetrators were more at ease to carry out their evil deeds...