Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

Ok geography is set by the seas and the Ural mountaines. Now what about culture?

If Europe is defined by geopraphy then surely it means the land mass/ continent that is Europe. By this definition the UK is not (geographicaly) part of Europe (thpoug you could argue the tunnel creates as physical link I guess) and neither is Cyprus.

Secondly, modern Europe has been trying to find an equlibirum between capitalism and socialism but the balance constantly shifts. (Im not sure how Turkey is in this)

Hmmm. For me the EU is totaly and firmly comitted to neo cpaitalist ideals at every level. The within this you have a spectrum from left wing ideologies to right wing ideologies - but both ends are firmly within the overall capitialist ideology.

Thirdly, Europe has been putting more attention to dipomacy and thje respect of human rights than its guns (a quite weak miliatry power) . Turkey is DECADES behind in this factor.

To my mind it is not correct to compare Turkey a state with the EU a loose federation of states in this regard. The sum total of the miltiary might of the EU countries combined is massive by any standard. Individual states within the EU - most notably the UK - have shown a great willingness to use 'military might' rather than negotiation as a 'strategy' (falklands,Iraq and others). The reason why the EU as a whole is primarily focused on diplomancy is that it is primarily a diplomatic / economic union and not a military one (though this is changing slowly).

Now after my babbling answer me this question. IF Cyprus was an independent country COMPLETELY inhabited by Turkish Cypriots only then would Cyprus be part of the EU today?

I think not but maybe I'm wrong. What does everyone else think?

I think it quite possibly would be. It's British history would help any EU membership in such a fictional senario and it's size would not cause any worries about it's economy vs the rest of EU or mass imigration into the EU. It would have been an ideal proof that the EU was not a 'christian club'. Still this is all just 'what ifs'.

[insan]

Now after my babbling answer me this question. IF Cyprus was an independent country COMPLETELY inhabited by Turkish Cypriots only then would Cyprus be part of the EU today?

I think not but maybe I'm wrong. What does everyone else think?

What's the deal of being a member state of European Union? There are many non-EU member states that much more civilised and socialist than any of the EU member countries. Most of the EU member countries top the corruption rate charts. In my opinion if a country does not have Christian ideals, capitalist dreams based on more and more, a so-called world peace project based on capturing the world's resources to maintain its existence; even if that country has been the world's most civilised nation doesn't need to be a part of EU.

Thus if EU member countries have planned to make a Turkish Cypriot inhabited Cyprus a member of EU; they could make it an EU member in the long run because EU countries have the power to sow the seeds of Europeanism and after a while, pick the fruits; in a small country like Cyprus, regardless of the ethnicity, religion etc of its inhabitants.


Now you answer me magikthrill. If %65-70 of GCs have been left-wingers; would GC ever accept to be a member of EU?

[turkcyp]

deleted by the author...

[magikthrill]

If Europe is defined by geopraphy then surely it means the land mass/ continent that is Europe. By this definition the UK is not (geographicaly) part of Europe (thpoug you could argue the tunnel creates as physical link I guess) and neither is Cyprus.

Geographically the UK is part of Europe. Claiming that Europe is only a mainland than all the Greek isles belong to an independent continent. Ideologically, the UK is an independent continent I believe. Did you know the first time the UK applied to be a member of the EU's predecessor ( I think it was some sort of steel bloc) they were rejected?

Geographically Cyprus is definitely not a part of Europe. A mixture of its Greek(people) and British(policies) identity made it a viable candidate (economy aside)

Hmmm. For me the EU is totaly and firmly comitted to neo cpaitalist ideals at every level. The within this you have a spectrum from left wing ideologies to right wing ideologies - but both ends are firmly within the overall capitialist ideology.

lax labor laws are not hard capitalist. What about France's (now former) 35 hour work force? Most EUropean countries have paid maternity leave from 3.5 to 6 months (Sweden --> 64 weeks and 63% of pay, Germany, France, Austria, Denmark, Netherlands, Portugal and Spain 100% of saraly for at least 3months)
In ths US maternity leave is not even mandated by the government.

To my mind it is not correct to compare Turkey a state with the EU a loose federation of states in this regard. The sum total of the miltiary might of the EU countries combined is massive by any standard. Individual states within the EU - most notably the UK - have shown a great willingness to use 'military might' rather than negotiation as a 'strategy' (falklands,Iraq and others). The reason why the EU as a whole is primarily focused on diplomancy is that it is primarily a diplomatic / economic union and not a military one (though this is changing slowly).

As I stated earlier the UK is ideologically different from the rest of Europe. THe Uk will be the cancer of the European Union unless something is done quickly about this.

As far as Europe's military power, if military expansion was a priority it would have been set forth by now. HOwever, thye find other sectors to be more imporatnt.

I think it quite possibly would be. It's British history would help any EU membership in such a fictional senario and it's size would not cause any worries about it's economy vs the rest of EU or mass imigration into the EU. It would have been an ideal proof that the EU was not a 'christian club'. Still this is all just 'what ifs'.

Opinion noted and respected. Of course other hypothetical factors would be involved that make this scenario tooo complicated. Like would Turkey accept for Cyprus to be part of the EU before Turkey?

ALso, Palestine was also a British colony and now Israel is booming. Of course their human rights record is worst than Turkey's but Should they be able join the EU?

[erolz]

lax labor laws are not hard capitalist. What about France's (now former) 35 hour work force? Most EUropean countries have paid maternity leave from 3.5 to 6 months (Sweden --> 64 weeks and 63% of pay, Germany, France, Austria, Denmark, Netherlands, Portugal and Spain 100% of saraly for at least 3months)
In ths US maternity leave is not even mandated by the government.

Just my personal opinion but you kinda say it all in your first line. 'hard capitalist'. The EU spectrum ranges from 'hard capitalist' to 'soft capitalist' but always capitalist - as I see it anyway. Every EU country persues a basic capitalist ideology (and dogmas - like all economic growth is always good). Within this they range from 'hard' to 'soft' (or left to right if you prefer) but all are within the same capitalist framework. Least that how I see things.

[efe]

i dont care if you consider me european or not. EU is an institution. it has RULES and REGULATIONS. According to these REGULATIONS, TURKEY is eligible to be a member. If so, what is the problem. People often confuse Europe's borders with EU membership.

If EU membership of Turkey benefits both sides, then let it be.

[magikthrill]

If EU membership of Turkey benefits both sides, then let it be.

daccordo.

i agree.

[insan]

magik, you have no idea about the question I've asked?

[magikthrill]

Now you answer me magikthrill. If %65-70 of GCs have been left-wingers; would GC ever accept to be a member of EU?

insan! sorry mate but i completely overlooked your post.

your question enters a looooooooong series of debates and arguments on the effect the EU has taken over its member states. I consider myself a left-winger (center left towards the left) and am more euro-philic than i am euro-phobic.

to answer your question. i doubt that GCs would accept to be a member of the EU if 70% were left-wingers. HOwever, I am assuming you mean they are hardcore left-wing (more than just "Socialist") and that they are politically active to elect a left-wing government.

As far as the EU eventually allowing a "Turkish Cyprus" to enter the EU, I think my question is too complicated. You are assuming a Turkish Cyprus as is the occupied part. However, I assume a Turkish Cyprus which has never had any relations with Greeks in the past 200 years. (Denying coexsitence with Greeks has made TCs more "European" (whatever that may mean) is like GCs denying coexistence with TCs has formed their modern day dialect)

SO I guess what im saying is scratch my questino out since it is WAY too hypothetical to be understood . We can get back to it another time

[cannedmoose]

Thrill, you beat the news to it... this is in today's Cyprus Mail. I particularly like Chrysostomides rather dry comment at the end... would be funny if a solution was found because of Homer!

Homer slams Turks on Cyprus problem
By John Leonidou

CULT cartoon character Homer Simpson has weighed in to the debate on the Cyprus problem, blasting a band of Turks who had kidnapped his children as “Cyprus-splitting jerks!”

The outburst came in the latest ‘Mobile Homer’ episode of the US series, The Simpsons.

The show, which was aired on Fox Network Television on Sunday, sees Homer’s children kidnapped by Turkish sea merchants; as he sees the boat leaving dock, Homer, whose voice is done by Dan Castellaneta, shouts out: “Bring back our children, you Cyprus-splitting jerks!”

Jibes are also made about Coptic Christians in Egypt and the fact that “Constantinople is now called Istanbul”.

The Simpsons has been a cult hit around the world for almost 15 years and has had an lampooned an array of stars and public personalities, including Aerosmith, Paul McCartney and British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

Government Spokesman Kypros Chrysostomides yesterday told the Cyprus Mail that Homer’s comments “do not alter the relations between Turkey and Cyprus”.

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2005