Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

No you are wrong. The EU member states are no more independent in major areas. EU is a quasi-federal organization.

Yes, it is an organization not a country. They have their terms, if you like them you join (if you are accepted), if you stop liking them you can leave. It is up to each country.

This is not the case in Cyprus. TCs do not own any part of Cyprus to do whatever they want with it by themselves.

[garbitsch]

Therefore, you have no right to demand federation. We are ready to compromise for it, but not just any kind of federation. If we don't agree, then the only legal thing remains is RoC.

In order to have a federation, you need at least 2 component states. On what basis are you going to create these states, if Turkish Cypriots have not right to claim a part of the country? You are contradicting yourself...

You can't ignore the fact that Turkish Cypriots are controlling the Northern part of the island of Cyprus for 31 years. You cannot go back to the time before 63 and pretend nothing had happened in 40 years.

One last question: Why do you want a federation, if T.Cs have no right to demand federation?

[garbitsch]

TCs do not own any part of Cyprus to do whatever they want with it by themselves.

So don't the Greek Cypriots. Thus, they have no right to claim majority rule in Cyprus by giving small minority rights to Turkish Cypriots, such as educational rights. You are also ignoring the principles which the RoC was founded on.

[Agios Amvrosios]

Very poetic. How about addressing the issue?

Do you think political representation should be linked to finacial contribution as a principle or not? A yes or no would be welcome (though not excpected).

the Political representation you talk about is economically unviable.

Why should the GCs pay for "your" solution.

Prove to GCs that "your" solution is economically viable.

You only want equality in what ever suits you.

See you in Court.

[Piratis]

One last question: Why do you want a federation, if T.Cs have no right to demand federation?

When did I say that I want federation. I said that I can compromise for some form of federation, but not just any kind of federation. I believe it is quite clear.

When we compromise we compromise real rights, not legally baseless demands (like you do). If you want solution, then you have to make some real compromises too.

Otherwise, we are left with RoC. Stop the occupation, give back our land, and then you are welcome to take the 100% of your rights according to RoC 1960 agreements. If you want to take something more than 1960, then be prepared to give something up in return.

[erolz]

Erolz, if you owned the part of land, and we wanted to form a union with you, then your point would be valid. If we didn't agree, then no union, no problem.

In Cyprus today legally there is only RoC. There is no federation. So ok, we make a compromise to have a federation, this doesn't mean we have to agree on the kind of federation (confederation actually) that you want.

So don't confuse EU which is a union of independent states and not a country, with Cyprus.

With respect I suggest you go back and read the original post. the discussion (I was having at least) was based on this and around the idea that if we want political equality (in a future federated Cypriot state) then we should be willing to pay equaly into the federal part of the state (equaly in absolute terms and not equaly in relative terms as I understood it).

Whilst actually both myself and Isan said we would accept taking out what we put in (put in equaly - take out equaly or put in relative to population - take out relative to population) - I also pointed out the the _concept_ of politcal equality relating to finacial contibrution (or visa versa) is actualy a very flawed concept and not actually applied anywhere else or should it be imo. Not as indivduals. Not as component states in a federal state and not in unions of states (EU and UN etc).

On the 'off topic' (imo) part of your post - if we agree a federation in cyprus then to my mind the only reasons to do so is to have federated states based on GC and TC commuities. If we are to have fedrated states based on just Cypriot why bother with a federation at all? All this talk of the 'kind of federation' has nothing to do with the topic at hand as I can see and as determined by the start of the thread and has been discussed many times in many other places.

[garbitsch]

Let me change my question: Why do you want to compromise on a federal solution, even though the Turkish Cypriots have no rights to demand a federation?

Stop the occupation, give back our land, and then you are welcome to take the 100% of your rights according to RoC 1960 agreements.

Everything is that simple huh? Are you living in Fiji or something? Do you think everything will be the same after we do that? And Madonna is dating Santa Claus

[Piratis]

With respect I suggest you go back and read the original post. the discussion (I was having at least) was based on this and around the idea that if we want political equality (in a future federated Cypriot state) then we should be willing to pay equaly into the federal part of the state (equaly in absolute terms and not equaly in relative terms as I understood it).

Ok. Well, my position on the topic is that money should not buy more political power. However, proportionally large political power can bring for the ones that have it proportionately large amounts of money.

[erolz]

the Political representation you talk about is economically unviable.

Sigh Why do I even bother?

Is the EU economicaly unviable? The RoC pays in much less to the EU than the UK or France or Germany. In some areas it has absolute political equality. In all other areas it has representation disproportionate to its numerical numbers. Does this make it economicaly unviable?

Why should the GCs pay for "your" solution.

If there is a solution then it will be and should be an agreed one. Any solution will no more be our soloution than yours.

Prove to GCs that "your" solution is economically viable.

If I had the slightest idea what you were talking about I might well try.

You only want equality in what ever suits you.

You do not want TC to have politcal equality at all and thus try and make our reasonable requests seem like they are unreasonable - and in this case an my very humble opinion you are failing miserably.

See you in Court.

Doubt though you may yet if I ever decide to take a court action based on the failure of the 64 (all GC) RoC 'duty of care' to my uncle.

[garbitsch]

Otherwise, we are left with RoC. Stop the occupation, give back our land, and then you are welcome to take the 100% of your rights according to RoC 1960 agreements. If you want to take something more than 1960, then be prepared to give something up in return

If this would be the case - I am adding the restoration of Guarantee agreements to the list- then the EU membership of RoC should be declared null and void, since Cyprus cannot become part of an international organisation, if one of the Guarantee states is not a member.