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[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

However, if the entire TC community and its leadership denounce all the above, return to the non occupied area and refuse to cooperate any more with the Turkish occupation forces, then be assured that the GC community and the RoCy will have absolutely no problem giving them back all their 1960 constitutional rights. Because it will simply become a piece of cake for the RoCy to prove to the rest of the world that Turkey is in Cyprus for strategic (that’s actually the real reasons) reasons and not because there is a need to protect the Turkish Cypriots from the mouth of the evil GCs.

Dream on, great pipe dream. Obviously you do not know TCs.

[Kifeas]

KifeasQuote:
However, if the entire TC community and its leadership denounce all the above, return to the non occupied area and refuse to cooperate any more with the Turkish occupation forces, then be assured that the GC community and the RoCy will have absolutely no problem giving them back all their 1960 constitutional rights. Because it will simply become a piece of cake for the RoCy to prove to the rest of the world that Turkey is in Cyprus for strategic (that’s actually the real reasons) reasons and not because there is a need to protect the Turkish Cypriots from the mouth of the evil GCs.


Dream on, great pipe dream. Obviously you do not know TCs.

Now I realize how you completed 250 postings in this forum. Because all you do is to pump in slogans all the time. Kind of easy job however!

[turkcyp]

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[erolz]

.... reasons and not because there is a need to protect the Turkish Cypriots from the mouth of the evil GCs.

putting aside Turkey's motives for a moment - do you really believe that there has never been a need for tht TC community to be protected from the GC community? Politicaly? Economicaly? Physicaly? In 60? In 63? In 67? In 74?

The point I am trying to make is that certainly 'protecting the TC community' in Cyprus can and has been (and undoubtedly will be in the future) used an excuse to futher the aims of non cypriots - but this does not mean that there wasnt historically a very real need for such protections and by extension a valid reasons for TC concerns re a united cypriot state.

[garbitsch]

.... reasons and not because there is a need to protect the Turkish Cypriots from the mouth of the evil GCs.

putting aside Turkey's motives for a moment - do you really believe that there has never been a need for tht TC community to be protected from the GC community? Politicaly? Economicaly? Physicaly? In 60? In 63? In 67? In 74?

The point I am trying to make is that certainly 'protecting the TC community' in Cyprus can and has been (and undoubtedly will be in the future) used an excuse to futher the aims of non cypriots - but this does not mean that there was historically a very real need for such protections and by extension a valid reasons for TC concerns re a united cypriot state.

Pretty well said... If Turkey hadn't intervened Cyprus, what would have been the destiny of the Turkish Cypriots under the rule of Sampson? I really want some decent answer to this question.

[Kifeas]

Hey Kifeas,

MicAtCyp offered an experiment because turning back to RoC is a real option for TCs. So he had suggested that TRNC give up some villages with its TC residents to RoC control as an experiment.

And I have said that that would not be an experiment due to 2 reasons.
1) Becuase it would be permament if experiment fails, you can not undo it
2) It is illogical because RoC is only an option for TCs if we are truning back to 1960 constituion not todays regime. But in his experiment the couple of villagers wouldbe turning back to today's regime not 1960 constituion. So obejctive of experiment is worth learning.

So I countered it and said let's have another experiment where it satisfies the above two conditions. If the experiment fails, it would be very easy for RoC to restrict all the righst of TCs again, like they are doing now.

I know turkcyp, but it also remains to be a major argument by many TCs that the reason they want division and recognition of TRNC is because GCs usurped their rights and they do not want to give them back. I just used this opportunity to make a point as to way these rights are not possible to be given under the current circumstances.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas wrote:

.... reasons and not because there is a need to protect the Turkish Cypriots from the mouth of the evil GCs.


putting aside Turkey's motives for a moment - do you really believe that there has never been a need for tht TC community to be protected from the GC community? Politicaly? Economicaly? Physicaly? In 60? In 63? In 67? In 74?

The point I am trying to make is that certainly 'protecting the TC community' in Cyprus can and has been (and undoubtedly will be in the future) used an excuse to futher the aims of non cypriots - but this does not mean that there wasnt historically a very real need for such protections and by extension a valid reasons for TC concerns re a united cypriot state.

I know erolz and agree,
However, under the treaty of guaranty, Turkey had an obligation to restore the constitutional order and not to commit ethnic cleansing of half of Cyprus, confiscate the properties of 200,000 GCs and uproot 50,000 TCs from the south and bring them to the north in the place of GCs. This is not restoring the constitutional order, as it was Turkey’s only obligation and duty. This is committing a crime much bigger than what she came here to hypothetically prevent. By doing this, Turkey destroyed the RoCy with all the treaties that formulated it, together with very the very same treaty that gave it the right to intervene in the first place. Turkey’s action became automatically illegal because of the very results and consequences that it created.

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas

Now I realize how you completed 250 postings in this forum. Because all you do is to pump in slogans all the time. Kind of easy job however!

kifeas everyone knows my opinions on the forum, I follow the postings because I find them very amusing, plus there is a lot of verbal diarrhoea
which amounts to nothing, theres no need for me to contribute paragraphs and paragraphs of repetative issues that we all disagree on anyway.
I have come to terms with the fact that we will never find this utopian solution we seek it doesnt exist, so for me TCs should return land/property because thats all the GCs want and we should want recognition of division. This way we can move on and leave all this bullshit behind and get on with a life without the never ending "Cyprus issue".

[erolz]

I know erolz and agree,

Thanks for the understanding.

However, under the treaty of guaranty, Turkey had an obligation to restore the constitutional order

I agree this was their obligation - I am just not sure how you imagine they could have done that or how realistic it is to think after such a drastic endeavour as the 74 action they would not want some change in the 63-74 status quo that led to this action?

and not to commit ethnic cleansing of half of Cyprus,

Slight exageration as far as the % goes - but I understand and accept your point.

confiscate the properties of 200,000 GCs and uproot 50,000 TCs from the south and bring them to the north in the place of GCs. This is not restoring the constitutional order, as it was Turkey’s only obligation and duty. This is committing a crime much bigger than what she came here to hypothetically prevent. By doing this, Turkey destroyed the RoCy with all the treaties that formulated it, together with very the very same treaty that gave it the right to intervene in the first place. Turkey’s action became automatically illegal because of the very results and consequences that it created.

Again I understand and accept your point. In many way I can also agree that Turkey ultimately committed a 'bigger crime' under the justification of righting and preventing a 'smaller crime' (though in many ways how big a crime is is a function of if you are the victim or not). However for TC the RoC was destroyed long before Turkeys actions in 74 and clearly so. I personally believe there was a small window of opportuinty (after Turkish actios of 74) of an agreement that would have been less disaterous for Cypriots that what eventualy happened - but onece again we (and other involved) failed to achieve this. However the TC and Turkish community probably wanted 'too much' after the action and the GC refused to give anything and thus agreement was not reached.

[turkcyp]

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