Cyprus-Forum.com

[DINOS SKALIOTIS]

blah blah blah, turk blah greek , cyprus problem, blah annan silly monkey arsed nigger, blah blah,un waste of space, blah papadop, blah blah! what a load of boring old bollocks! wake me up when your all finished! bunch of boring bastards the lot of you

[Viewpoint]

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Cyprus is one, indivisible & belongs to its Cypriot people!

I like that sig, it’s good to see your back, Kifeas! Do me a favor, no more talk of partitions

Why? thats where we are headed, physically we have it in place all we have do now is agree it on paper. As long as the GCs re-elect papadop we will have a great chance.

[Pyrpolizer]

Papadopoulos IS A DISASTER because he stuck us into the rejection of the Anan plan. That was not enough. I am not saying anyone can solve the Cyprus problem by himself. However if our inactions are such that the occupied are just one step away from "acknowledgement", then soon there won't be any Cyprus problem to solve on the first place.
And this is exactly where we stand today. Another 5 years with Papadopoulos and it's over.

The above is not an accurate assessment! Papadopoulos did take initiatives that eventually let to the adoption of the "8th of July" agreement, or the Gambari process, which opens the prospects for a negotiated settlement of the problem between the two communities! This was quite an achievement, considering the fact that the Turkish side was dead in favor of sticking to the Anan plan as the basis for a solution! Nowadays, with the exception of the Turkish side (primarily Turkey,) all the other international players -EU, UN and all the 5 Security Council permanent members, are in favor of continuing negotiations, not on the basis of the Anan plan but on the "8th of July" agreement, which calls for the establishment of committees to negotiate the various aspects and parameters of the solution. It is another issue if the Turkish side -after realizing that this puts the solution of the problem outside the favorable to them strict –essentially non negotiable parameters of the Anan plan, now chooses to backtrack from this agreement! It is evident that it is not Papadopoulos fault, the fact that we have no progress in this process, even though it is the only one on the table!

I wonder what else more positive someone else in charge of the GC community would be able to do, add or propose towards the direction of a solution, apart from the "easy" way out which is to bring back the Anan plan with some cosmetic changes!

That's true-and he deserves congratulations for that agreement- but I haven't heard anybody accusing the Turkish side for the absolutely no progress in that...
All I hear is vague statements calling BOTH sides to proceed.

If Papadopoulos is not one of the two who should be blamed for this stalling, then what has he done to expose the Turkish side??

Let's admit it! Papadopoulos' inactions brought us to the point of being co-accused even when (presumably) all the blame is on the other side. He brought us to the point where the occupied started having serious hopes for an initial "acknowledgement"....

We need a change man, let's no be conservative peasants who only know growing potatoes. Let's try grapes this time.

[Pyrpolizer]

Papadopoulos IS A DISASTER because he stuck us into the rejection of the Anan plan. That was not enough. I am not saying anyone can solve the Cyprus problem by himself. However if our inactions are such that the occupied are just one step away from "acknowledgement", then soon there won't be any Cyprus problem to solve on the first place.
And this is exactly where we stand today. Another 5 years with Papadopoulos and it's over.

The above is not an accurate assessment! Papadopoulos did take initiatives that eventually let to the adoption of the "8th of July" agreement, or the Gambari process, which opens the prospects for a negotiated settlement of the problem between the two communities! This was quite an achievement, considering the fact that the Turkish side was dead in favor of sticking to the Anan plan as the basis for a solution! Nowadays, with the exception of the Turkish side (primarily Turkey,) all the other international players -EU, UN and all the 5 Security Council permanent members, are in favor of continuing negotiations, not on the basis of the Anan plan but on the "8th of July" agreement, which calls for the establishment of committees to negotiate the various aspects and parameters of the solution. It is another issue if the Turkish side -after realizing that this puts the solution of the problem outside the favorable to them strict –essentially non negotiable parameters of the Anan plan, now chooses to backtrack from this agreement! It is evident that it is not Papadopoulos fault, the fact that we have no progress in this process, even though it is the only one on the table!

I wonder what else more positive someone else in charge of the GC community would be able to do, add or propose towards the direction of a solution, apart from the "easy" way out which is to bring back the Anan plan with some cosmetic changes!

Ban ki Moon blamed both sides for the lack of progress, you like to think your leader is squeeky clean and is not the staller he really is, you need to see the negativity coming out of the south on a daily basis.

Ha,ha,ha. I swear kifeas, I haven't read the above until after I replied to you. I hope you can understand my point better now.

[Pyrpolizer]

blah blah blah, turk blah greek , cyprus problem, blah annan silly monkey arsed nigger, blah blah,un waste of space, blah papadop, blah blah! what a load of boring old bollocks! wake me up when your all finished! bunch of boring bastards the lot of you

We are sorry we are not in the same state of mind as you.

[Piratis]

We need a change man, let's no be conservative peasants who only know growing potatoes. Let's try grapes this time.

Pyrpolizer, I am not conservative at all. However not all changes are positive. A change can be for the better but it can also be for the worst. So we shouldn't make a change for the sake of the change, just randomly hoping that this change will be a positive one. Before we make our choices we should seriously evaluate our options.

So you shouldn't just say "Let's try grapes this time." You should explain why it will be better with the "grapes" and not worst.

In my opinion Papadopoulos did almost as much as he could when we brought him in the last moment to make the big "U Turn" to avoid the collision that was planned by the AngloAmericans with the cooperation of Vassiliou and Cleredes during the last 15 years. The problems we face today are simply a result of the reaction of US/UK for daring to refuse their plans for Cyprus. The only way to avoid those problems would have been to accept that much bigger problem called Annan plan.

Christofias can not bring anything better. On the contrary it is very possible that he will bring us back a re-cooked Annan plan, and when we will reject it again (because there is no doubt about that), the problems for "daring" to reject that plan twice will be even bigger.

And if you think the mud that the AngloAmericans through their media throw against Papadopoulos now is a lot, and Christofias will create for us a better image abroad, then wait to see how the AngloAmericans would treat Christofias if he doesn't adopt their line. The UK/USA press will be writing articles about the super conservative Stalin leader of the Cuba of the Mediterranean.

So Christofias is not a change for the positive in my opinion, despite the shortcomings of Papadopoulos.

[MR-from-NG]

blah blah blah, turk blah greek , cyprus problem, blah annan silly monkey arsed nigger, blah blah,un waste of space, blah papadop, blah blah! what a load of boring old bollocks! wake me up when your all finished! bunch of boring bastards the lot of you

We are sorry we are not in the same state of mind as you.

Dinos is in a better frame of mind than most. There is a lot of truth in what he says. We keep going on about the Annan plan, Papad, Talat etc. We keep arguing we did this you did that, GCs hate TCs TCs that GCs blah blah.

Where has it got you all? What has it achieved or is likely to achieve. At least Dinos has made positive contribution to the problem by saying many times "f**k the politics and religion" and the outsiders. Why can we live together side by side in England and other places around the world and not our home of Cyprus.

Like Dinos I have given up on discussing the Cyprob, whats the point? Am I going to convince Pissartist or Kifeas or Phoenix that we should not be punished for what the Ottomans did 500 years ago and that we belong here too and deserve to live side by side in peace.

I know there is not a chance in hell with these type of fanatics around. At least Dinos says what he means and means what he says, he can be trusted and gives me hope for the future.

[Piratis]

Piratis, you have refused stubbornly to understand what I have been saying over the last four years or so. I tried to put across that what we desire has nothing to do with what we can achieve. Our options are limited, basically because of the limitations of the United Nations that have given us very nice resolutions but no one is interested to implement them, no matter how much we kick and bark.

If we really want a solution we need to take the best available option. If not, the situation cannot continue to stay as it is and time itself will put a gravestone over Cyprus. Your idea that we should wait for the balance of power to change in our favour in order to impose the solution we want absolutely stinks. It is a nightmare senario that only the worst enemies of Cyprus could wish. It is a pity you cannot see this but, mind you, this is what Dountas advised us before he died and Papadopoulos was an admirer of this man.

Bananiot, I perfectly understand what you are saying. I just disagree with your evaluation.

Yes, what we desire has nothing to do with what we can currently achieve. We agree with that. Yes, our options are limited. So far we agree 100%.

Where we disagree is that between the limited available options you prefer the worst one, simply because it has a label of "unification" on it and it comes with the "good boy" award from your British friends that you would be so proud to wear. The truth is however that this option is nothing less than a disguised, official and therefore permanent partition, that not only would partition Cyprus once and for all and with our signature, but would also bankrupt us and downgrade the part of Cyprus we control from a country to a "constiduent state" without international voice.

I on the other hand, prefer the other, less bad option, which not only is less bad today, but it also leaves the prospects open for something better in the mid to long term future.

[Piratis]

Am I going to convince Pissartist or Kifeas or Phoenix that we should not be punished for what the Ottomans did 500 years ago and that we belong here too and deserve to live side by side in peace.

You don't need to convince anybody for that, because nobody asked that you should be punished for the crimes you are doing to us today, let alone for the ones you have been doing 500 years ago.

On the contrary it is you who are trying to dig some lame excuses from the past to excuse the illegal occupation of our land and the violation of our rights.

[Bananiot]

Joe, in case you are interested, I have read Klerides's book from page 1 to page 549. It's titled "documents of an era" and in it I have found some very interesting staff which about the period between 1993 and 2003 when Klerides was President. It is also true that I am an admirer of Klerides's realism and pragmatism and I was there, at the launching of the book.

I have made a search of the archives of Cyprus Mail. Is this the article that you claimed I copied?

PRESIDENTIAL election candidates last night put their rivalry aside to jointly pay tribute to former president Glafcos Clerides at the launch of his latest book Documenting an Era.

With incumbent President Tassos Papadopoulos on his right and AKEL candidate Demetris on his left, Clerides, 88, laughed and joked with everyone who came to pay their respects, and received two standing ovations during the launch in Nicosia.

These included third candidate, DISY’s Ioannis Kasoulides, former President George Vassiliou, Foreign Minister Erato Kozakou-Marcoullis, Attorney-general Petros Clerides, party leaders and other top figures.

Clerides’ book documents his two terms in office, covering the era 1993-2003 when he lost the election to Papadopoulos. It takes in efforts to solve the Cyprus problem during that period plus other aspects of Clerides’ presidency.

During his address, Clerides said he did not write the book as a testament to his presidency but as a means to lay out the difficulties faced in trying to solve the Cyprus issue. It includes letters and other correspondence between Clerdies and then Turkish Cypriot leader Rauf Denktash, various UN Secretary Generals and Cyprus envoy Alvaro de Soto.

A the end of the 549-page tome, Clerides sets out the dangers that lie ahead for Cyprus without a solution and even with a solution.

“We must understand that unfortunately that any solution will legitimise part of the results of the invasion,” he said.

“Instead of an illegal Turkish occupation there will be a legal occupation by a Turkish Cypriot canton where they will exercise executive, legislative and judicial powers, a regime which would never have existed if it had not been preceded by the coup and invasion.

“If we don't wish to find a solution which will legitimise the de facto situation, we should have to seek unitary state but his cannot be achieved by the UN without international support,” he added.

Clerides said an unresolved Cyprus problem could only lead to one result: the recognition of the entity of the de facto regime even without sovereignty, just to ease its isolation.

“Such a situation would lead the solution they [the Turkish side] were seeking for 33 years and that is the partition of Cyprus into two states.”

This was the always the hope of Bulent Ecevit, the Turkish Prime Minister in 1974, Clerides said.

“He always supported that the Cyprus problem was solved on the ground and that time would legitimise that solution.”

In his address, President Tassos Papadopoulos said he had accepted the invitation because he wanted to express his deep respect to Clerides the man and the politician.

“I am connected with Glafcos Clerides in our common struggle and in our years of effort to solve the problem of our country and its future,” said Papadopoulos.

“The disagreements and the opposition are merely the traits and privileges of the jewel of democracy, and Glafcos Clerides personifies this jewel with the gentleness of his character, his tolerance and politeness, with his morals and his style and with his magnanimity.”

Papadopoulos said despite their disagreements there was no questioning Clerides’ love of his country and the seriousness of his political reasoning.