Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

is like pissing in the wind

This is what we are generally doing the past years (some people do that for their whole life).

Our last hope is Europe and USA where everyone is laughing or spitting at Tap, if we have a chance this is with a different president that the foreigners will be able to respect and trust and not a mental sick lunatic that even him can’t understand what he is saying where every second thing he say it contradicts with the first(even Makarios have said what if he didn’t know him he could believe what he said, pointing what he is so deep in shit and lies that almost everything he says is a contradiction). The situation is with this donkey face lunatic is redicoulous.

Yes, Daemon. the EU and the USA act based on how much they like our president. Maybe we should elect Miss Cyprus as the president then, to give them some blow jobs, and then they will solve the Cyprus Problem as we want it.

Get real please. The USA and every other country cares about their own interests and absolutely nothing more. They are now pressing the Cypriot people to elect somebody who will be easier to manipulate, so it will be easier for them to pass their own "solution" to the Cyprus Problem and in that way better serve their own interests. All this anti-Papadopoulos propaganda is a product of this desire of the AngloAmericans to close the Cyprus Problem in their way as fast as possible, aided of course by those in Cyprus who would love to get on the chair.

[cymart]

What you say would apply if the situation here remained static but it doesn't!
As I wrote yesterday,every day that passes is in favour of the other side as they build houses, send over more settlers and on this side the people who originated in the north gradually die off.Even number one wanker Lillikas admits that in a few years time there will be no Greek-Cypriot land left in the north for them to give back.....
Furthermore,the number of people who come from this side who care about changing the status -quo is also getting less and the whole concept of partition as the best solution becomes more and more acceptable-this is the mentality that Papadopoulos and his followers have been cultivating and it is self-fulfilling anyway as a natural process during the course of time-what you are used to you gradually accept as normal and we already have a generation here that has known nothing else!This other idea of hoping the balance of power will one day change in our favour etc. is 'pie-in-the- sky' as it might never happen and in any case, for the reasons I have just described,it is not an option!It is an excuse for doing nothing while the situation on the other side is changing every minute in THEIR favour!!
Concerning Papadopoulos,apart from whether you support his philosophies or not,his past makes him as unacceptable to the Turkish Cypriots as Rauf Dentash is to this side so there is no hope of a solution while him and people with his mentality remain in power and it's pointless denying that!!
It's ironic that his son said that himself and Papad. have the'same stars' etc!This is true in that neither of them want a solution which is any different from the present situation,which they consider protects their interests on each side of the line, rather than one which involves power sharing by this side and territorial concessions by the other!!Papad. has the presidency as the head of a purely Greek-state,even if it's half of its territory,while Serdar and his Ankara backed clique have control of a growing 'Taiwan 'where anything goes,however illegal or dirty and all this would be spoiled by either recognition or a solution!
I think we have argued about the Annan Plan 'ad nauseam' on this site and whether or not it would have worked is impossible to say:but I do agree with Makarios Droushiotis article a couple of months ago in which he said that if it had gone through,the whole territory of Cyprus would have been under E.U. control and Turkey as a prospective new member could hardly have backed-down on an agreement which concerned a member state?Surely it would have been far better to try to negotiate the few changes that were originally suggested,rather than what we are now facing which is 'a black hole of uncertainty' while Turkey continues with its long-standing policies regarding the north.
A final observation for now,there are a list of well-known personalities on this side who seem to have been banned from appearing on the government controlled CYBC t.v. and this includes George Vassiliou,Takis Demetriou who are known critics of the government policy in the Cyprus issue and now even popular presenter Irini Charalambidou whose newly published book about internal scandals such as the Helios Airways crash and the recent foot and mouth disease problem etc. does not suit he ruling establishment!This stinks of blatant censorship and is not the way an E.U. member should behave.....

[phoenix]

Little pervert Bananiot wants to take us back to the middle ages, during which “might was right” and the big fish had the “inherent right" to eat the small fish, because this was what Allah was "dictating" to be the kismet of the small countries and nations!

Bananiot, I suggest you to go and commit suicide, for you are a disgrace to the history, civilization, pride and dignity of the GC society! You are a corrupted defeatist fellow, that only suicide may save your soul! No my dear demonised fellow, we prefer to die in fight to the last one, but we won't follow the undignified path you are showing!

You had the perfect opportunity to do this in 74, why didn't you?

Dig-head “MR-from-NG,” in case you haven't realised it, the war is not over yet! What we have now is officially regarded as cease-fire! The war which your prostitute motherland and the leadership of your community started still continues to this day! The war has many faces, military, economic, legal and diplomatic! In 1974, your prostitute “motherland” had simply won a battle! Ever since that battle, your mother and your community's spoiled leadership have lost all the subsequent ones! You have lost the battle to have the illegalities of 1974 become legalised! You have lost the battle to make us surrender and capitulate! You have lost the battle to have the northern part of our stolen homeland become recognised as a separate entity! You have lost the battle to achieve the derecognising of the RoC! You have lost the battle to stop our EU accession, and we have managed to do so with the whole of Cyprus under the sovereignty of the RoC! You have lost the battles in the UN, with all the resolutions! You have lost the battle in the Cyprus vs. Turkey and the Loizidou vs. Turkey cases in the ECtHR! Now, you (your corrupted motherland) will have to face our veto for her EU accession!

What have you won in 1974? Nothing! You have simply achieved a pyrrhic victory on only one single battle, but you have lost (and still losing) all the subsequent ones, despite what Bananiot tells you! In 1974, we simply retreated so that we regroup and redeploy our strength and forces!

. . . and they lost the battle for the EU Trademark for Cyprus Loukoumia

Another sign of the will to erase any remnants of the Ottoman influence in Western Civilisation.

[Bananiot]

Phoenix

Bananiot for somebody like me who is not practiced in politics it's really important that you are honest about your sources and distinguish between your own opinions and facts.

If it wasn't for Kifeas pointing out the fallacy of your arguments I would be a very disillusioned and disappointed reader.

Phoenix, you are entitled to take for granted anything that Kifeas says. In fact, you can use his words as your bible. However, your mentor cannot possibly stop people from making political judgements especially by shouting abuses ad nauseum, as cymart quite correctly said in describing another case, while you keep quite.

I talked in my post of the principles that are found in the resolutions of the General Assembly and the Security Council and pointed out that these simply remain without any practical value because they cannot be implemented. If we insist on them another 33 years will go by and there will be no Cyrus problem to be solved by then.

Then, I wrote about certain consensual elements that have krept into the equation and gave some examples. If I were wrong then in 1977 and 1978 the late Makarios and Kyprianou would have not ignored the clearly defined principles that we like to talk about and introduce BBF as the only possible solution. This was done as early as 1977 and no Kifeas shouted then that these Presidents were corrupt. In fact, everybody applauded them.

[-mikkie2-]

The longer the north of Cyprus is outside effective EU juristiction and under the control of Turkey the less chance we have of solving the problem. Why do you think Turkey is suddenly demanding that 50000 settlers become 'citizens'?

At least, even with a botched solution, the whole of Cyprus is under EU control and it gives Cypriots the chance to improve things for the better. The EU will not laugh at us as it is being suggested. Individual actions within EU courts will set the precedents for changing a botched solution into one that is better. At least we would have this opportunity. As things stand we have zero opportunity because Turkey is allowed to get away with everything it is doing in the north. The EU isn't going to send armies to kick Turkey out of Cyprus and it never will.

[phoenix]

The solution will come about once Europe has made it clear to all concerned, that Turkey will no longer be considered for possible future entry to the EU.

We should be pressing for this to happen, because until then, and whilst Turkey is supposedly been considered, then the EU will not treat Turkey as an invading force.

Accept Turkey has no place in the EU, make it known, then we will see Turkey pushed out of Cyprus once and for all.

It is possibly for this reason that Turkey is trying every possible begging position to still be considered, because once they give up hope of entry, they know they have to withdraw their troops.

So, GET LOST TURKEY! . . . I have you sussed you scheming, pack of villains.

[Piratis]

Mikkie, do you know that the Annan plan substituted the UN Resolution that called for the immediate withdrawal of Turkish troops and the respect of the sovereignty of Republic of Cyprus, with some agreement that Turkey would return some land and withdraw her army several years from now?
So the Annan plan would legalize the occupation and the presence of the Turkish army in Cyprus.

If Turks did not give back that land and did not withdraw their army, now instead of violating a UN resolution and illegally occupying part of an independent and sovereign state, they would be simply "delaying the implementation of an agreement, because the TC constituent state deemed it is required for their security". No settler would leave either.

If Turkey can today afford to illegally occupy 36% of an independent sovereign EU member country against UN resolutions and international law, then surrly they can also violate some Annan agreement by simply delaying its implementation. And in that case there would be no RoC to veto or cause them problems in their EU accession effort.

And when their EU accession negotiations fail (because at some point they will anyways) then this problem will become permanent. But by then, we would not have a RoC, our economy would be bankrupt, the TCs would have direct flights, direct trade, and everything else they wanted, and we would be in a much much worst situation than we are now.

[-mikkie2-]

Piratis,

I don't disagree with your statements. Of course there were great dangers in the Annan plan.

But look at things now. Yes, we still have the RoC but we don't have any say in what happens in the north. We have zero influence, the refugees are still refugees, we still have 45000 turkish occupation troops, our lands and history are being systematically changed etc etc. In 10, 20 or 30 years time we will be faced with a massive Turkish population in the north. How do you expect to resolve the situation then? By force? Whose force? Do you think the US is going to go against the Turks? Do you want to wait for a world war 3 to start so that we can get back what was taken?

Simply, we don't have the luxury of time anymore. A solution is needed now and we need to use diplomatic skill to turn things around for us. There is no other way.

[Piratis]

Yes, we still have the RoC but we don't have any say in what happens in the north. We have zero influence

And what influence would we have over the north with Annan plan Mikkie? It would then be officially and legally under Turkish rule.

The Annan plan was not a solution. It was a change in the agreements. The current agreement is for a unitary state, which Turkey violates by illegal occupation and against UN resolutions, while the new agreement would be for two separate "constituent states", legalizing the presence of the Turkish troops and the status of north Cyprus as being Turkish. Turkey would even more easily violate those agreements, just like they violate this ones. Creating some cheap excuse to do so would be easier than ever before.

So we would have a worst problem (not a solution) and we would be legally much weakened to fight for our rights. That is what the Annan plan was.

If your way of thinking is that with Annan plan we would get something bad that we would be able to improve, you should revise it. What we would get would be something bad, even worst than what we have now, and not only we would not be able to improve it, but on the contrary Turkey would not even give the peanuts she would be supposed to give to us, making the result even worst.

If your way of thinking is "Accept something bad, change it to something better", then the Turkish way of thinking is "Accept something good, force something even better" (for themselves). Or you thought they would just sit there idle allowing you to take away from them what was given to them with the Annan plan?

I don't have a magical solution to the Cyprus Problem. What I know is how not to make the problem worst for us. The option of a "good" or even "acceptable" solution is simply not available right now. The options is between "bad" (current situation) and "worst" (annan plan). So simply get it out of your mind that a solution is possible today or in the near future. This is going to be long struggle and we should be prepared for it and plan for the long term.

[-mikkie2-]

"So simply get it out of your mind that a solution is possible today or in the near future. This is going to be long struggle and we should be prepared for it and plan for the long term."

How can we prepare for the longer term what as we speak, Turkey is forcing the TC's to accept 50000 'citizens' and god knows how many more in the forceable future. Are you prepared to wait 10, 20 years facing a million Turks?

We need to be realistic because time simply isn't on our side. I understand your arguments and I also want a solution that is acceptable but as time goes on the accpetable receads and the 'bad' gets even 'worse'. It is a catch 22 and I doubt that our politicians are skillful enough to navigate the RoC over the next 10, 20 years of no solution.

I don't have the answers, but we need to get a grip and at least get the TC's to start trusting us and perhaps they will then be in a position to stop what is currently happening in the north.