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[insan]

We all know the differences between GC version of "political equality" and TC version of "political equality".

And what exactly is that?

If you want find out what exactly are the differences of GC and TC point of view regarding "political equality" of two communities; you should browse back this forum to read related posts.

Briefly, TCs want to have the right to effectively participate on every decision related with their group interests(communal) in particualr and common interests of Cypriots in general; according to Federal constitution and laws of Federal Republic of Cyprus.

Now you tell me what is your "political equality" understanding.

[Kifeas]

Are you 100% sure about this?????

100% sure about what?

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas
Quote:
Thirdly, Turkish language is already an official language in Cyprus, you have no problem having your own schools, Universities, colleges, radio and TV stations,



Are you 100% sure about this?????

That we can open Turkish speaking schools in the RoC?????would you like to inform Mr Papadop about this statement???

[insan]

My friend Insan,
The parallelism you are trying to extract, between what might be the situation of Muslims in Thrace and what will be the situation of TCypriots in Cyprus, should political equality –as you define it- doesn’t prevail but instead majority rule –as you believe GCypriots aspire, is totally unrelated.

First of all, why you do not choose as a better example, the situation of Kurdish people in Turkey? You will perhaps make a better impression and paint a more dramatic picture for the TCypriots. Are you afraid that you will offend the Kemalist ideals of the Turkish establishment?
Secondly, are TCypriots in any way comparable to the Thrace Muslims? TCypriots are far more educated, far more open-minded, far more Europeanised and far more progressive to remain isolated within any form of political arrangement. These people are mainly what they are because they are afraid to open up to the rest of the world and risk any influences to their cultural integrity. TCypriots are already far more cosmopolitan to be fearful of anything like that. I think you are intentionally underestimating your community’s capabilities and capacity.
Thirdly, Turkish language is already an official language in Cyprus, you have no problem having your own schools, Universities, colleges, radio and TV stations, and as far as the RoCy i.d. card is concerned, there is no mention about religion on it and it is also prohibited (thanks God,) by the constitution.

The parallelism you are trying to extract and imply is a false one, right from scratch.

Sorry Kifeas but I haven't read any reliable expert report which justifies your comparison between Turks of thrace and TCs of Cyprus. I only trust to expert reports but I have respect to other's opinions.

[sadik]

..as opposed to the suffering of the Greeks in Turkey. Re, what are you talking about? The Turks of Greece have thrived when compared to the Greeks of Turkey which have been diminished to a tiny group of people in Istanbul.

I would like to see a similar report on the fate of the Greek minority in Turkey. I'm sure it would make for much worse reading.

Hi,

As a matter of fact, Greeks in Istanbul, (as well as Armenians) have been going through a similar kind of discrimination. I lived in Istanbul for a while and got to know some people in the local Greek community. There has been some improvement in recent years, but a lot more improvement is needed.

The difficulties they are facing are very similar to that of Turks in Greece. Their religion is also printed on their ID cards. It's still difficult to get into civil service or police force. Getting into the military is impossible.

I think it is very important to note that both Greece and Turkey went through a similar process of nation building and this is why Greek and Turkish minorities in these countries are facing similar problems. I believe it is a little unfair to blame Turkey for the migration of Greeks from Turkey to Greece, because Greece also encouraged this.

Both Greece and Turkey wanted to create their homogenous nations, and they agreed to exchange population, which was very painful for a generation of people. Both Greece and Turkey focused on assimilating a somewhat diverse group of people in their countries into one nation, instead of trying to guarantee rights and prosperity for their ethnic counterparts in other countries. As a result, Turkish sepaking Greeks, Greek speaking Turks, a rich bilingual folklore and a lot of cultural richness has been lost. I think it's a pitty.

Sadik

[Kifeas]

That we can open Turkish speaking schools in the RoC?????would you like to inform Mr Papadop about this statement???

Under 1960 constitution, the matters of education for each community were vested to the corresponding Communal councils. Now there are no communal councils under the territory controlled by the RoCy and the ministry of education regulates all education matters. This is exactly what it is currently trying to do. To recruit Turkish Cypriot teachers and open a Turkish language school in Limassol. Should the RoCy ask the ministry of education of the “TRNC” to open the school?

[garbitsch]

According to the Constitution of RoC, the ministers of Defence, Health and Environment must come from the Turkish Community. However these ministers are Greek, because the Turkish Cypriots are no more represented in the parliament. Why doesn't this special case applied for opening a Turkish school in Limassol? Greek Cypriots are keen when they suit the constitution to their own interests. The RoC contitution is no more practiced for the Turkish Cypriots, so when it is a matter of opening a Turkish school, don't depend on the constitution.

[-mikkie2-]

Hi Sadik,

I would accept most of what you say, but when you compare numbers it is a different story. There are only around 2-3000 Greeks left in Istanbul compared with a Turkish-Muslim community of around 200000 in Greece. After the exchange of poplulations there were similar number of Greeks in Turkey as there was Turks in Greece. Today the Turkish community is higher in numbers whereas the Greek community is struggling to survive. I don't put the flight of the Greeks from Turkey down to Greek encouragement. I put it down to mostly the Turks making the life of these people such that they had cause to leave.

[Kifeas]

Sorry Kifeas but I haven't read any reliable expert report which justifies your comparison between Turks of thrace and TCs of Cyprus. I only trust to expert reports but I have respect to other's opinions.

So, due to the absence of an expert report that compares the two, you rather accept that they are of the same mentality and cultural status.

As a matter of fact, I visited these areas in Thrace and I have some idea. These fellow people resemble more to the Anatolian Turks than to the TCs. If the modern Republic of Turkey didn’t manage so far to change their mentality in Anatolia, just think how much more difficult it is for Greece to achieve it. These people cannot accept to even hear suggestions, because they perceive them as attempts to alienate them from their traditions.

[insan]

Sorry Kifeas but I haven't read any reliable expert report which justifies your comparison between Turks of thrace and TCs of Cyprus. I only trust to expert reports but I have respect to other's opinions.

So, due to the absence of an expert report that compares the two, you rather accept that they are of the same mentality and cultural status.

As a matter of fact, I visited these areas in Thrace and I have some idea. These fellow people resemble more to the Anatolian Turks than to the TCs. If the modern Republic of Turkey didn’t manage so far to change their mentality in Anatolia, just think how much more difficult it is for Greece to achieve it. These people cannot accept to even hear suggestions, because they perceive them as attempts to alienate them from their traditions.

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The group demands greater participation in politics at the state level, as very few Turk politicians are elected to office compared to their population. The group also is demanding equal rights with the rest of the Greek population, which would include improvements to infrastructure in Turkish areas, and an end to the policy of helping Greeks in obtaining Turk land. A main concern as mentioned above is the improvement in the educational system and allowing Turks to learn Greek in schools, so that the Turks can compete with Greeks for better paying jobs, and improve their economic opportunities. Finally, as a religious minority in an historically hostile environment, the group wants to ensure the protection of their culture and way of life.


Who prisoned them into those economical, educational, political and social circumstances they have been in? Turks of Thrace themselves or discriminatory policies of Greek government? Yes, the government of Greece is angel. Only the Turks of Thrase is responsible from their poverty and under development. Tell me more Kifeas.