Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Russia dear cymart never send their troops on our island to kill, exploit and enslave us. Since you are British and you want to get involved in Cyprus politics the first thing you should have done would be to apologize and ask for forgiveness for the terrible things that your country did, and with colaboration with Turkey continues to do against Cyprus, and give an oath never to try to impose on us what to do with our own island ever again.

Also Bananiot on one hand talks about "xenophobia" and at the same time he talks about how much we like Russians and Serbs. That doesn't add up dear Bananiot.

What we have in Cyprus is not "xenophobia" but a justified hate against those that violate our rights and stop us from enjoying our freedom and self-determination on our island. I guess if we hated Russians and Serbs and loved the British and the Americans, like cymart and Bananiot do, then we wouldn't be "xenophobic"

Milocevic and Putin are angels compared to the scums of the kind of Bush and Blair (and their predecessors) . Blair even had his wife to defend criminals that stole our properties for fuck's sake!

[Kifeas]

Cymart, you are clueless my friend!

You said: “Or do we prefer to side with the Russian mafia/K.G.B. and naively believe we can rely on them to kick Turkey out of Cyprus?”

Right! And of course now it’s about time you also tell us with whom we should side instead, so that we kick Turkey out! With your Anglo-American friends perhaps? Those that supply all the weapons, the loans and the political backing to Turkey, so that it can more easily occupy Cyprus? Well Cymart, perhaps you haven’t realised it but if it wasn’t for Russia in a number of cases, “TRNC” would have already been recognised long time ago! It is thanks to Russia that the favourable to us UN resolutions have not been allowed to be eroded, as your Anglo-American friends have tried to do so in so many occasions in the past! At least show some respect and gratitude! Do you know how many times Russia vetoed attempts to pass and adopt unfavourable and pro-Turkish resolutions and reports in the UN Security Council?

You said: “would like to ask how many Greek Cypriots know anything about the reality of life in that country, or what the most popular foreign beer is among people in Moscow?It's Efes my friends, brewed in Russia under franchise from the factory in Turkey!Ask Russians who can afford to travel abroad which resort they are most likely have visited in the East Mediterranean and they will say Antalya,Kemer,etc. where over 1 million of them go every summer!Maybe one tenth of that number visit southern Cyprus,out of whom probably 50% are not package tourists but stay in private accomodation etc.”

Ha ha ha! You are such an ignorant! Yes, over a million of lower income Russians do vacation in Turkey, and only about 150 thousands of the highest income do so in Cyprus! However, do you know that the cost for Russians to take a holiday in Turkey, is just about half to that of taking one in Cyprus? Do you know the difficulties that Russians have to undergo in order to take a visa to have their holidays in EU Cyprus, as opposed to the non-visa requirement to Turkey? Do you know that Turkey has a population and an area 100 times larger than Cyprus, yet it only gets 7 times more Russian tourists than Cyprus does?

Finally, do you know that the amount of revenue for Cyprus government and economy, coming out of Russian off-shore businesses or money registered or deposited in Cyprus -and other related activities, is at least as much as the revenue we get from the 1.4 million British tourists visiting Cyprus, and way more than the revenue Turkey gets from the 1 million Russian tourists in Turkey?

You certainly do not know the above facts, or it is you ass that does the talking!

As for the rest of your foolish Don Quixotic concerns about Putin and democracy in Russia, well, Russia is 150 million people and certainly not short in souls to sort out their own problems! Look at how to face your small country’s own far worst and immanent problems, stemming out of the illegal occupation of half of your country, and live the “luxury” of being concerned in solving Russia’s problems for those that matter!

[Piratis]

Kifeas, just a correction: Cyprus is not Cymart's country. He is British. The only reason he has interest in the Cyprus problem is that his Cypriot wife has some property in Famagusta and he wouldn't mind selling off all of Cyprus to the Turks if it meant he would be able to make a quick sale of his wive's property and fly back to the UK a richer man than he came to Cyprus.

[pantheman]

Kifeas, just a correction: Cyprus is not Cymart's country. He is British. The only reason he has interest in the Cyprus problem is that his Cypriot wife has some property in Famagusta and he wouldn't mind selling off all of Cyprus to the Turks if it meant he would be able to make a quick sale of his wive's property and fly back to the UK a richer man than he came to Cyprus.

Amen!

[Bananiot]

Piratis, may I say first that I do appreciate the civilised way you are now expressing your opinion. You have improved a great deal in this field.

Now, regarding my position on Russia and China, I believe that these countries have nothing to offer us. I am not xenophobic about them and if I thought that they were important players I would go after them like hell. Simply, they cannot influence anyone that matters regarding our problem. Just to prove that this is so, I am willing to bet my bottom dollar that come next Friday, all five permanent members of the Security Council (including Russia and China) will give a positive vote to the statement of the Secretary General, despite all the negative points he has included for our side.

Anyone with elementary knowledge of how Russians function can tell you that Lavrof came to Cyprus in order to appease the naive natives who think that friendship is what governs international relations. Russia has a problem with Serbia and Kosovo. The break away region is about to be declared independent. All countries of the EU have accepted this, including Greece. Lavrof made a rush visit to Cyprus, told us a few things we were dying to hear (especially Papadopoulos who is desperate to show that there are people out there that still listen to him) and secured our support within the EU for the Russian views on Kosovo. We stand alone inside the EU on this matter and one cannot help but feel that Russia is leading us into dangerous paths.

Here is a classic example of Russia's position on the Cyprus issue, a position of principle, as some naive people here like to say. In 2005 Erdogan went to visit Putin in Moscow and together they signed agreements involving billions of dollars. Putin, referred to the occupied parts of Cyprus as the north but we excused him because he was talking about the "geographic region" but within the same breath he also declared that "it is not fair for the Turkish Cypriots to be kept economically isolated". Lavrof, this time round, he scorned the Secretary General who called for the ending of the isolation but, no doubt, when he visits Turkey he will say something entirely different.

[cymart]

If it really interests the rest of you who like crucifying anyone who disagrees with Papad. and his cronies,I have no intention of returning to the U.K..
One of my friends,who was a very well-known and respected journalist internationally was murdered in October 2006 in Moscow and the real culprits will probably never be known.But what is known is that she exposed the truth behind Putin and his regime and paid for it with her life.She had several books published and I would kindly ask those of you who think the people who rule Russia today are better than those who rule the west to read her books-I can give you the titles and they are widely available.The super-rich who some of you brag about spending their money here are mostly members of Putins corrupt bureaucracy called 'siloviki' or worms in Russian slang and are hated by the millions of decent and honest but impoverished ordinary Russians whose daily life is a struggle to make ends meet while these shit spend money like there is no tomorrow!I have a number of very close Russian friends who I trust more than most Cypriots and you can take that how you like!
I doubt if any of you have ever been to Russia,let alone lived and worked there like I have so please don't sing the praises of people who you know nothing about,especially how they made and are still making their money!
Or is it that some Cypriots are already so corrupted themselves that they are no longer ashamed to take anyones money,as long as it goes into their pockets!
Their are some wonderful Russians but not the kind who have millions of dollars to burn-they are scum and a disgrace to this island.Try asking any ordinary Russian and they will confirm it!
If I could,I would send all of you to Moscow to live in somewhere like Vykhino or Kapotnya for a few months and then we can talk again-even better,Norilsk in the arctic woulld be a good experience for you!

[Piratis]

Piratis, may I say first that I do appreciate the civilised way you are now expressing your opinion. You have improved a great deal in this field.

Pity that we can not say the same about the anti-Papadopoulos campaign which is nothing more than mud throwing.

Now, regarding my position on Russia and China, I believe that these countries have nothing to offer us. I am not xenophobic about them and if I thought that they were important players I would go after them like hell. Simply, they cannot influence anyone that matters regarding our problem. Just to prove that this is so, I am willing to bet my bottom dollar that come next Friday, all five permanent members of the Security Council (including Russia and China) will give a positive vote to the statement of the Secretary General, despite all the negative points he has included for our side.

Anyone with elementary knowledge of how Russians function can tell you that Lavrof came to Cyprus in order to appease the naive natives who think that friendship is what governs international relations. Russia has a problem with Serbia and Kosovo. The break away region is about to be declared independent. All countries of the EU have accepted this, including Greece. Lavrof made a rush visit to Cyprus, told us a few things we were dying to hear (especially Papadopoulos who is desperate to show that there are people out there that still listen to him) and secured our support within the EU for the Russian views on Kosovo. We stand alone inside the EU on this matter and one cannot help but feel that Russia is leading us into dangerous paths.

Here is a classic example of Russia's position on the Cyprus issue, a position of principle, as some naive people here like to say. In 2005 Erdogan went to visit Putin in Moscow and together they signed agreements involving billions of dollars. Putin, referred to the occupied parts of Cyprus as the north but we excused him because he was talking about the "geographic region" but within the same breath he also declared that "it is not fair for the Turkish Cypriots to be kept economically isolated". Lavrof, this time round, he scorned the Secretary General who called for the ending of the isolation but, no doubt, when he visits Turkey he will say something entirely different.

Russia and China are permanent security council members and have as much to offer as anybody else. As Kifeas pointed out, Russia has been helpful in the security council several times.

You talked about the Russians, but here is an exercise for you: Compare the many positive and few negative things that Russians said about Cyprus, with the very very negative and almost no positive things that the UK is saying about Cyprus. It sounds funny that you are looking with a magnifying glass to find some negative statements by Russians, while you overlook the tons of shit we hear almost every day by the British.

The British, just like the Russians and everybody else, care about their own interests above everything else. If you think that by kissing the ass of the British/Americans they will change their policies in our favor then you are fooling yourself. If we start kissing their ass as you want us to do, they we will simply make it much easier for them to screw us. (oh, and then give us the "good boy" award )

[Bananiot]

Papadopoulos is getting some of his own back. He was a very divisive President that divided the people into patriots and traitors. What he is receiving as a candidate is nothing of what he dished out as the President. Do you remember the ambient atmosphere when he went on an accusation spree and vilified the 100 000 people that voted for solution? When he was asked last Tuesday, he could only say that he knew of only two people that received money from UNOPS. For a mere two people (who did nothing more than translate the plan) he had the audacity to accuse everybody that voted for the solution as people that received money in order to betray their country!

Coming back to the Russian issue. Okay, we have agreed to become the Trojan horse for Russia in the European Union. In return, Russia will keep her eyes open in case the corrupt Angloamericans try to pull a nasty one on us. What a deal! Haven't we been through this path before, with disastrous results? Why the hell are we making the same mistakes again? Does our future lie with Russia? What the hell is this government trying to do with this country? I am really angry!

[Piratis]

Papadopoulos is getting some of his own back. He was a very divisive President that divided the people into patriots and traitors. What he is receiving as a candidate is nothing of what he dished out as the President. Do you remember the ambient atmosphere when he went on an accusation spree and vilified the 100 000 people that voted for solution? When he was asked last Tuesday, he could only say that he knew of only two people that received money from UNOPS. For a mere two people (who did nothing more than translate the plan) he had the audacity to accuse everybody that voted for the solution as people that received money in order to betray their country!

No, I don't remember Papadopoulos saying anything about 100.000 people. What Papadopoulos talked about was about those few that showed no respect to the democratic choice of the Cypriot people and were trying to force Cyprus to accept the Annan partition plan despite the fact that it was clearly rejected in the most direct way.

Coming back to the Russian issue. Okay, we have agreed to become the Trojan horse for Russia in the European Union. In return, Russia will keep her eyes open in case the corrupt Angloamericans try to pull a nasty one on us. What a deal! Haven't we been through this path before, with disastrous results? Why the hell are we making the same mistakes again? Does our future lie with Russia? What the hell is this government trying to do with this country? I am really angry!

Ok, so with the Russians we do something for them, they do something for us. Sounds fair to me. With the British, we accepted for them to hold huge areas of our island as bases and in return to guarantee the sovereignty of our country (and to pay us rent), and not only they didn't do that, but they sided with the Turks and they are the most zealous Turkish supporters within EU. So explain me why we should side with the British who are only good in taking and never giving back (treating us as if we are still their colonial subjects), and not with the Russians who at least return the favors?

[observer]

"Jean Christou. Cyprus Mail, October 20, 2006

President Papadopoulos also weighed in yesterday insisting that money was given out without the government’s knowledge. During the committee meeting last week, Planning Bureau chief Andreas Moleskis said that $60.5 million was channelled though the Bicommunal Development Programme (BDP) to sway Cypriot voters in favour of the Annan plan. He also said that the amount given to NGOs and individuals without government approval reached “double figures in millions”.

A 5 minute search on the web. I believe Papadopoulos' accusations are more fully reported in Politis over the period Oct 17/19 2004 but I do not read Greek.

Also:

"Politis: We’ll sue Tassos so the truth may shine
By George Psyllides and Stefanos Evripidou
(archive article - Saturday, October 16, 2004)
POLITIS newspaper yesterday threatened to sue President Tassos Papadopoulos unless he made public a letter, which the President claims confirms the UN was funding the ‘yes’ camp in the run-up to the referendum.

The stakes rose dramatically yesterday as Papadopoulos refused to substantiate the claims he first made on Thursday night that the United Nations and other foreign parties had allocated funds to support the ‘yes’ vote before the April 17 referendum on the Annan plan.

Papadopoulos made the claim on Thursday night on his return from an overseas trip.
After the end of his statements at Larnaca airport, the President surprised journalists, the president by saying he had a letter from UN special envoy Alvaro de Soto, which allegedly confirmed the allocation of funds to Cyprus before the referendum."

So maybe he didn't actually give a number, but he left no one in any doubt that he was claiming that large sums were involved.