The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Occupiers of TC property may be arrested

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby garbitsch » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:36 am

Piratis wrote:
It was a coup which aimed at unifying Cyprus with Greece


It was an illegal coup, and what was aiming was illegal as well. This illegal coup did not have the support of the majority of GCs. If Turkey instead of occupying part of Cyprus was stopping the coup, then we would both celebrate that day.

Extermination: Go and read Akritas plan (some GCs in this forum admit that)

Akritas plan is a document. Not a reality. It was not something known (let alone supported) by the majority of GCs.
The implementation of your "Akritas plan" is a fact though. 200.000 refugees and ethnic cleansing of 1/3rd of Cyprus.


But it was something known by the Junta and Sampson, who would implement it after annexing Cyprus with Greece. Besides, the majority of Greek Cypriot at that time would love to see Cyprus as an island of Greece.
User avatar
garbitsch
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1158
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:21 am
Location: UK, but originally from Cyprus

Postby Piratis » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:43 am

But it was something known by the Junta and Sampson,


Neither junta or Sampson had the support of the majority. (a tiny minority actually). Actually junta was not even supported by Greeks. It was a CIA creation.

Besides, the majority of Greek Cypriot at that time would love to see Cyprus as an island of Greece.


I am not sure about that. This is certainly not true today, it was certainly true in 55, but about 74 I don't know. It would be illegal anyways.

However the majority of GCs would definitely not support something like Akritas plan.
User avatar
Piratis
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 12261
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Postby Deejay » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:43 am

Piratis,

We, that have been in Cyprus 3000 years before the Ottomans, have not agreed to cede Cyprus to anybody. Cyprus belongs to Cypriots (82% of which are GCs) and not to an empire that does not exist.


The Aboriginies were in Australia thousands of years before the English came to Australia and claimed it under the English Empire. Australia has been under English rule for over 200 years and yet everybody recognises that it is an English country.

The Ottoman empire ruled Cyprus from 1571 - 1878 and (technically on paper) has the rights to island to this very day. The 1960 Cyprus Agreements sees Turkish & Greek Cypriots as equal owners in Cyprus. The Greeks do not want to accept this. You cannot use the fact that you were in Cyprus before the Turkish as a legitimate reason of who owns the land. If this was the case the Aboriginies hould be in Power in Australia, and the American Indians should be running the USA, and the native New Zealand tribes hould be in control in New Zealand.

Turkish & Greek Cypriots are equal in Cyprus and this is what we agreed to at the Zurich Agreements. Even though we agreed to this, the Greek Cypriots had other ideas in mind...ENOSIS As a matter of fact the Greeks have deceived the Turkish people twice now. First time in Zurich...second time in the Annan Plan!

30 years of occupation. For how long did your Ottoman empire occupy those other places? This didn't stop those nations from getting liberated one day, right?


It isn't an occupation. The real occupation is the 'Occupation of the rights of the Turkish Cypriots by the Greek Cypriots.' The ROC does not exist as it is not the offsrping from the government that was established in 1960. Sorry Piratis, the current government is a 'Fake Cyprus Government'...it does not represent the Turkish Cypriots. There is 2 governments in Cyprus. One is the Sth Greek Cypriot Government, the other is the Turkish Nth Cyprus Government.

Well, the 2 states that you talk about exist only in your dreams and in now void and null partition plans.
In reality what it exists is RoC, part of which is illegally occupied by Turkey.


The 2 states are a reality. Go to Lefkosa (Nicosia) and cross the territorial line. When you see the Turkish Cypriot flag wavinbg, you will then realise that 2 states exist.

The 13 points were proposals, and then we had intercomunal violent conflict (for which I will not deny that GCs were mostly responsible).


I am happy that you have understood that you cannot agree to something on the world stage then decide to change your mind. Now that the island has 2 different states..it is too late to say we never wanted the 13 points of ammendments. The Greek Cypriots should have done all they could to prevent this back then. If the 13 points of ammendment had gone through successfully, I am pretty sure we wouldn't have Greek Cypriots complaining today. Why didn't they speak up 30 odd years ago??

The epic grandeur and glory of EOKA'S liberation struggle has laid the foundation - stone of national freedom. This freedom it is our sacred duty to safeguard and complete. National struggles never come to an end. They merely change their form, preserving deep down the same substance and the same content. The realisation of our hopes and aspirations is not complete under the Zurich and London Agreements. The glorious liberation struggle, who, whose fifth anniversary we celebrate today, has secured us advanced bastions and impregnable strongholds for our independence. From these bastions we will continue the struggle to complete victory. There is nothing impossible for man when he works for something he believes in. Let us work with faith for the future of our country and let us be certain that the task we began five years ago will soon be completed and bear fruit.
(Cyprus President Archbishop Makarios, 1st April 1960)
Deejay
New Member
New Member
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:55 pm

Postby Piratis » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:48 am

The Ottoman empire ruled Cyprus from 1571 - 1878 and (technically on paper) has the rights to island to this very day.


:roll: ok, sorry, but I will not waste my time reading more of such baseless claims. I think you got involved too much with propaganda and you lost every limit.
User avatar
Piratis
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 12261
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Postby Deejay » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:54 am

You may not accept the claim to Cyprus by the Ottoman Empire but you must accept this -

The epic grandeur and glory of EOKA'S liberation struggle has laid the foundation - stone of national freedom. This freedom it is our sacred duty to safeguard and complete. National struggles never come to an end. They merely change their form, preserving deep down the same substance and the same content. The realisation of our hopes and aspirations is not complete under the Zurich and London Agreements. The glorious liberation struggle, who, whose fifth anniversary we celebrate today, has secured us advanced bastions and impregnable strongholds for our independence. From these bastions we will continue the struggle to complete victory. There is nothing impossible for man when he works for something he believes in. Let us work with faith for the future of our country and let us be certain that the task we began five years ago will soon be completed and bear fruit.
(Cyprus President Archbishop Makarios, 1st April 1960)
Deejay
New Member
New Member
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:55 pm

Postby erolz » Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:59 am

Piratis wrote: Akritas plan is a document. Not a reality. It was not something known (let alone supported) by the majority of GCs.


It is a reality. It is a real document written by real GC outlining their real desires and the ways they sought to gain their real desires (use of subterfuge, managing of external impressions - propaganda, need to hide real objectives, unilateral removal of TC rights, need to use swift and sudden force against TC if they resist etc etc etc) in the real world.

As to who 'knew' about it and who support it's objectives and means these are by no means the same thing. So even ignoring that many GC who may not have know about this (very real) document may well have supported both its (illegal) aims and it's (illegal) means - who exactly do you think DID know about it? Only your illegal terrorists called EOKA-B (before they even existed) or the glourious freedom fighters you call EOKA? Do you think TP knew about it? Makarios? Grivas? Sampson? Georgardis? Who exactly do you think are the 'members', 'leader and deptuy leader', 'general staff' the document refers to? Who are all these people then? Just some crazy 'fringe group' of GC that were neither in positions of power and influence or in anyway a reflection of wider GC desires and attitudes? Are the people who wrote this document, distributed and read it 'tratiors'? Or are they GC leaders and freedom fighters and heros? Please do tell me.

Do you claim that so much of what is written there mirrors the real actions of the GC adminstration of the time is merely conincidence? Just happenstance? Do you really doubt that there were important and powerful GC that had both read it and and comitted themselves to executing it?

Treating the Akritas Plan as a work of 'fiction' from the mind of an atypical GC mentaility that bears no relation to GC desires or actions as they actualy happend in the past and is not in any way a reflection of general GC desires (then and to a large degree still now) may suit your propaganda needs and your personal need to wash the stain from GC hands in this regard but it does not stand up to a logical analysis of document and what actually (really) occured in Cyprus imo.
erolz
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2414
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Girne / Kyrenia

Postby Piratis » Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:13 am

You took a document and you created a whole propaganda around it to justify things that can not be justified. The invasion was illegal, the occupation is illegal, the "TRNC" is illegal. These are the facts, and they do not change because some people at some time wrote something on a paper.

Just out of curiosity: Did the Turkish defense in the Titina Loizidou case bring up the "Akritas plan" to justify the illegal actions of Turkey? I doubt. Because even Turks themselves know that documents do not give them the right to violate our human rights.
User avatar
Piratis
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 12261
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Postby Deejay » Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:23 am

You took a document and you created a whole propaganda around it to justify things that can not be justified. The invasion was illegal, the occupation is illegal, the "TRNC" is illegal. These are the facts, and they do not change because some people at some time wrote something on a paper.


Piratis..it is not simpy a document. It is a document aimed at exterminating a whole race. It is a serious attempted case at ethnic cleansing...if this is not to be used as a weapon against agressors..then what can be used? This document has the fingerprints of many important Greek Cypriot leaders including Clerides. It is not fair to say we are using it as propoganda.

The Greek Cypriots say that Turkey's intervention is illegal..and I respect their views. But that does not mean that I believe the same as the Greek Cypriots. We as Turkish Cypriots are justifying why the intervention is NOT illegal. Documentation such as the AKRITAS Plan is merely a supporting document to the Turkish Cypriot struggle to tell the world that we (Turkish Cypriots) went through hell between 1963-1974. I know all about this because my family fled their homes when EOKA struck towns with gunfire and bombs for months near Limasol. My family slept with one eye open at nights scraed for their lives along with many other Turkish Cypriot families. My uncle went missing. My family fled their home and had to live in caves and tents for 1 year under a supposed working Republic of Cyprus that was functioning without a problem according to Greek Cypriots. Our situation changed when Turkey brought peace to Cyprus.

Im always open to fair arguments...and I believe this is fair.
Last edited by Deejay on Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deejay
New Member
New Member
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:55 pm

Postby Piratis » Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:27 am

It is a serious attempted case at ethnic cleansing


A document is a serious attempted case at ethnic cleansing??
User avatar
Piratis
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 12261
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Postby Deejay » Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:29 am

A document is a serious attempted case at ethnic cleansing??


Yes Piratis.
Deejay
New Member
New Member
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:55 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests