Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

phoenix

Unless ALL the Turkish troops leave, ALL of Turkey's influence dissolved, ALL the settlers returned to Turkey, ALL of Cyprus restored to the RoC, we will continue to be in the SAME mess as we are in now.

Any little bit of Turkish influence still remaining will lead to the slow reintroduction, re-Turkification of the island that we are trying to get away from.

It's like trying to get rid of algae . . . unless you get rid of every last cell, as soon as your back is turned, they would have colonised again.

I'm sure you've said something like this before..........which I interpret as you really want all of Cyprus for yourselves

Zero marks for interpretation then.

The RoC is the only Internationally acceptable governing body for the WHOLE of Cyprus. Only the Turks dispute this.

Yes I do re-iterate my opinion, which is that I want to negate Turkish influence in Cyprus.

Do you have a problem with resolving the Cyprus issue by removing the one which has caused it?

Yes, in resolving it your way ..........

Any little bit of Turkish influence still remaining

How do you propose I give up any Turkish influence I (and many like me) have ? Do I wake up one morning and start to speak Greek ?

Because if an outsider / migrant from Country Y wants to live in Country X , they have to integrate with the customs of Country X (otherwise why GO there and not stay in Country Y) rather than force Country X to become Country Y .

Get it?

BTW Speaking the same language is a prerequisite not an option. You speak English in the UK don't you?

Of course I 'get it' your way....

But I'm talking about Turkish Cypriots, not outsiders, not migrants, but people that call Cyprus their home. My parents, grandparents, their parents, they were all born in Cyprus. But somehow you consider us as outsiders.

Well technically you are!

You are the last of the Invaders that have still not integrated.

Perhaps we need to ask why?

My answer would be that you do not want to integrate. You do not respect the culture you invaded and you want to change it.

So we have to defend ourselves from extinction, which is what would happen if we let you change and Turkify us.

Phoenix mou, do I understand correctly; you wish us to integrate to save yourselves from extinction? Thats odd.

Only if you re-arrange my sentences deniz. I'm sure you can get me to say anything that way

Ok,, I did split your sentences, but what is this obsession called'integration'. What do you mean by it? Why should we integrate. ? Integration will make you feel better?

[Bananiot]

How does anyone integrade into the Cypriot culture and way of life, one may wonder. Cyprus is a bicommunal country and nice sounding slogans will not save the day. Each community needs to respect the other one and of course we need to respect our differences above all. We have not done this and this explains our predicament. We are to blame, primarily and the sooner we stop blaming the foreigners the sooner we might begin to see light.

Are you willing Phoenix to accept our Turkish Cypriot brothers and sisters as a politically equal community?

Another question. Were the Germans and Italians that fought on the side of the allies traitors?

[Get Real!]

How does anyone integrade into the Cypriot culture and way of life, one may wonder. Cyprus is a bicommunal country and nice sounding slogans will not save the day. Each community needs to respect the other one and of course we need to respect our differences above all. We have not done this and this explains our predicament. We are to blame, primarily and the sooner we stop blaming the foreigners the sooner we might begin to see light.

Are you willing Phoenix to accept our Turkish Cypriot brothers and sisters as a politically equal community?

The answers to the problems you raise lie in the application of democracy.

Under democracy there is no such thing as political communities, political equalities, percentage ratios of power, or any other racist rubbish. Under democracy there is one vote per person and petty diversities such as sexual preference, religion, ethnic backgrounds, and the like do not form part of the political nucleus.

Democracy is the future for Cyprus as it is the fairest governing method for all and it also breaks the backbone of Cyprus’ enemies who are looking for the slightest excuse to carve up the country into kingdoms reluctant to follow the rule of law.

Our biggest mistake is to communize this country for it only serves the diabolical 'divide and rule' scheme of external powers.

[phoenix]

How does anyone integrade into the Cypriot culture and way of life, one may wonder. Cyprus is a bicommunal country and nice sounding slogans will not save the day. Each community needs to respect the other one and of course we need to respect our differences above all. We have not done this and this explains our predicament. We are to blame, primarily and the sooner we stop blaming the foreigners the sooner we might begin to see light.

Are you willing Phoenix to accept our Turkish Cypriot brothers and sisters as a politically equal community?

Another question. Were the Germans and Italians that fought on the side of the allies traitors?

Well how does anyone integrate into any new culture . . . it's not an impossible request.

I don't want Cyprus to be a bicommunal country.

My vision is for it to be one unified country with people from many origins living in harmony accepting it is a Greek speaking EU country and governed by the RoC.

The TCs like every body else will have their vote and their voice in the running of the country. That is what equality means to me . . . no giveaways to one "special" community.

As for the Germans fighting the allies . . . you are so wrong to equate yourself with them in order to mitigate your guilt at attracting the label of "traitor" to Cyprus.

First of all the RoC is not equivalent to the Nazis by any stretch of the imagination . . . I can't get beyond the fury I feel that you can defend the actions of Turkey so much when the parallels of their actions are the ones that are unmistakably those of the Nazis. We all know who the Nazis idolised for their Genocide tactics.

Still, those 10,000 or so "Germans" that fought beside the allies where fighting the Nazis and not their country Germany. To top it all 90% of them were actually Jews who were fighting against the holocaust.

They were among more than 10,000 Germans and Austrians who fled Nazi persecution, took refuge in British territories and volunteered to join the struggle against Hitler......

More than 60 years later, the veterans, many Jewish or considered 'degenerate' in Hitler's Germany, will come together this week for their first reunion...

Fry's book: "The King's Most Loyal Enemy Aliens" which reveals many of the veterans' remarkable stories for the first time.

Anson (War veteran) said .... "I wasn't opposed to Germany, but I certainly was interested in fighting the Nazis."
Helen Fry, the book's author, estimates that 85 to 90 per cent of the Germans and Austrians who fought for Britain were Jewish - many lost family members in the Holocaust - with the remainder consisting of anti-Nazis and the 'degenerate artists'. She said: 'They knew what Britain was up against. Some had come out of concentration camps and they were determined to liberate Europe.

The risks were high: Germans caught behind enemy lines were tortured and executed as traitors.

[Nikitas]

Turkish Cypriots do not have to integrate becaue they already are Cypriots, Phoenix. I find this insistence on them integrating a little puzzling.

On the other hand they must let go of this paradigm that has been imposed on them- namely that Greek Cypriots will swallow them up and they will disappear unless protected by some special status case set up. They also have to proclaim their Cypriotness. They left this a little too late, hopefully they can still do it and tell the settlers and Turkey that they are Cypriots.

[phoenix]

Turkish Cypriots do not have to integrate becaue they already are Cypriots, Phoenix. I find this insistence on them integrating a little puzzling.

On the other hand they must let go of this paradigm that has been imposed on them- namely that Greek Cypriots will swallow them up and they will disappear unless protected by some special status case set up. They also have to proclaim their Cypriotness. They left this a little too late, hopefully they can still do it and tell the settlers and Turkey that they are Cypriots.

Well it's a little late now, I know . . . bit like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted.

But if the TCs had integrated effectively, then none of this mess would have arisen.

The root cause in my opinion was in establishing TWO official languages. That just accentuated differences between the two communities forever segregating them as two "racial" types.

I abhor segregation of any kind which is why I don't like the current set-up nor any future plans that would perpetuate segregation.

[Nikitas]

Phoenix, the Swiss have three official languages and they are one of the most patriotic, often irrationally so, people on earth.

We could have overcome the language problem by teaching COMPREHENSION (as opposed to speaking) each other's language at school. This has been done on several occasions, the one that impresses me the most is the Concorde plane project, where engineers were taught to understand but not speak the other's language.

Asking a Turkish Cypriot to speak Greek in his everyday dealings back in the 60s would have been an insult. I am surprised you cannot see this.

In terms of integration, I ask myself this: who needs most to have familiarisation lessons to live in the south, your average TC or a Greek mainlander? For me the answer is obvious and that deals with the integration question.

[iceman]

Turkish Cypriots do not have to integrate becaue they already are Cypriots, Phoenix. I find this insistence on them integrating a little puzzling.

On the other hand they must let go of this paradigm that has been imposed on them- namely that Greek Cypriots will swallow them up and they will disappear unless protected by some special status case set up. They also have to proclaim their Cypriotness. They left this a little too late, hopefully they can still do it and tell the settlers and Turkey that they are Cypriots.

Well it's a little late now, I know . . . bit like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted.

But if the TCs had integrated effectively, then none of this mess would have arisen.

The root cause in my opinion was in establishing TWO official languages. That just accentuated differences between the two communities forever segregating them as two "racial" types.

I abhor segregation of any kind which is why I don't like the current set-up nor any future plans that would perpetuate segregation.

Judging by your comments,the only proper integration of TC's should have been six foot under...

[humanist]

Get Real

The international community is to blame for allowing this charade to exist and thus encouraging anarchistic behavior to floorish by the abandonment of the rule of law.

GR very well said. Now what can we do to let them know? That is the big question.

[humanist]

I thought VP is Greek