Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Bananiot, I’ll wager that if Turkey were to get up one day and just want out you’d probably be at their feet begging them to stay and make it hell for us to be independent… such is the nature of the masochist serf!

I could say the same thing about many of our politicians who would be looking for a new, hard to find job. I could say the same thing about many of our arm chair fighters who are waging war against Turkey from their living room. After Turkey has left they would fall into deep depression.

I wish you would read and understand what I am saying GR, without bias. I am sure you have the capacity to do so. If we do not go after options that are feasible we will end up like the dinosaurs. If you are a Piratis disciple and you also think that we should allow things to stay as they are until we get a better opportunity, then let me tell you that things will not stay as they are. This is a dynamic world we are living in and it does not take a brilliant mind to realise that change will be at our expense.

I do read and understand your posts Bananiot but they always seem to conclude the same:

“Cyprus is too small to have an opinion and should therefore take whatever comes along and shut up!”

Isn’t that your underlying feeling for Cyprus? Or have I missed something?

[Nikitas]

Get Real posted:

"At the last census (2006?) the TC authorities did not allow the UN to observe so it's anybody's guess what's going on in there and it's also highly suspicious that the Turks may well be greater in number than the TCs otherwise why wasn't the UN allowed unless there was something to hide!"

This is a pattern of conduct that is recurring- the TRNC authorities allowing international bodies only when their presence is beneficial to them. Same pattern goes for relations with the EU, they want the help of EU but reject EU rules on most matters, in fact they reject the whole legal order of the EU. You have to wonder where this method of diplomacy leads and how long it will take the EU to catch on.

[Get Real!]

Get Real posted:

"At the last census (2006?) the TC authorities did not allow the UN to observe so it's anybody's guess what's going on in there and it's also highly suspicious that the Turks may well be greater in number than the TCs otherwise why wasn't the UN allowed unless there was something to hide!"

This is a pattern of conduct that is recurring- the TRNC authorities allowing international bodies only when their presence is beneficial to them. Same pattern goes for relations with the EU, they want the help of EU but reject EU rules on most matters, in fact they reject the whole legal order of the EU. You have to wonder where this method of diplomacy leads and how long it will take the EU to catch on.

The international community is to blame for allowing this charade to exist and thus encouraging anarchistic behavior to floorish by the abandonment of the rule of law.

[Kikapu]

Get Real posted:

"At the last census (2006?) the TC authorities did not allow the UN to observe so it's anybody's guess what's going on in there and it's also highly suspicious that the Turks may well be greater in number than the TCs otherwise why wasn't the UN allowed unless there was something to hide!"

This is a pattern of conduct that is recurring- the TRNC authorities allowing international bodies only when their presence is beneficial to them. Same pattern goes for relations with the EU, they want the help of EU but reject EU rules on most matters, in fact they reject the whole legal order of the EU. You have to wonder where this method of diplomacy leads and how long it will take the EU to catch on.

Perhaps you can see the reasons as to why TC's are forced to chance their names as to blend in more easily with the Settlers and not the other way around..!!!

Nikitas, if there ever were to be an agreed Partition, or even recognition of the "TRNC" at some point, would the "TRNC" automatically become part of the EU or not. The reason why I ask is, if they will become part of EU, perhaps Turkey has plans to enter into EU one person at a time by their citizens entering the "TRNC" as settlers at a never ending "marry go around". If there are 300,000 Settlers in the "TRNC" now, and are able to become EU citizens in the future, each one then will be able to sponser another family members in Turkey to join them in the "TRNC". It will take few decades, but better than nothing at all, if Turkey is kept out by the RoC or few other countries that does not want her in the EU club..

I was just thinking out loud.!!!

[Nikitas]

Kikapu,

To tell the truth I cannot figure out Talat's attitude to the EU. He constantly harangs about isolation and wants direct trade, and in the same breath he stresses that the RoC entered the EU unilaterally and refuses implementation of the EU acquis. The EU itseld says that the whole island has entered the EU but the acquis does not apply to areas not controlled by the RoC.


Theoretically speaking, if there is indepdence of the north with RoCs blessings I cannot say if the TRNC will be an automatic member of the EU. It might be by virtue of being part of a member state, on the other hand the EU staes might decide it has to go through the tests, 30 or so dossiers with criteria it has to meet.

As to the settlers, there was an interesting RIKSAT broadcast on Friday. Two TC teachers; union members who painted a dark picture of settler influence in the north, suppressing the Cypriots and moving things towards a closure of the check points. The two TC union men said that they wanted more monitoring by the EU so the irreularities would be uncovered. It seems that it took time but finally the TCs are facing the inevitable clash with the "motherland" as we did in 1974. We got through that period but the price was heavy, I hope that EU membership will help the TCs to come throught with less cost than the GC side had to pay.

The EU card held by the RoC is not one that it will play lightly. Judging from recent events Cyprus, along with Greece, prefer to press for Turkey's membership believing that once in the EU Turkey will have to abide by EU rules, and that favors both countries. On the other hand there are countries like Austria, France and above all Poland (who keeps silent but has the most to lose if Turkey joins) who will have the last word. Poland would be the biggest loser in terms of subsidies if Turkey joins, but the Poles are keeping quiet under USA pressure.

[Bananiot]

Hello Kikapu. Being the weekend I took some time off the computer, if that is okay. The figure I quoted came from "Politis" newspaper last Tuesday. This is the second biggest newspaper in the south and it is a fervent opponent of Papadopoulos.

Phoenix, I do not like people calling others traitors, just because their point of view is different. This takes us back many decades and shows that our political culture is still below zero. The main culprit is Papadopoulos and his followers who claimed that 100 000 Greek Cypriots that voted "yes" in the referendum were traitors. He also claimed that we were paid to do so, by foreigners.

GR, it appears that you are missing many points. Try a bit harder, I am sure you can do it.

Nikitas, even Papadopoulos says that he supports BBF. Granted, many of his supporters (probably the vast majority) are against this form of solution, but this double talking is what makes him untrustworthy in the international community. If it makes you feel any better, I also do not like BBF but I am wise enough to realise that this is our only realistic option to solve the problem.

[Viewpoint]

phoenix

Unless ALL the Turkish troops leave, ALL of Turkey's influence dissolved, ALL the settlers returned to Turkey, ALL of Cyprus restored to the RoC, we will continue to be in the SAME mess as we are in now.

Any little bit of Turkish influence still remaining will lead to the slow reintroduction, re-Turkification of the island that we are trying to get away from.

It's like trying to get rid of algae . . . unless you get rid of every last cell, as soon as your back is turned, they would have colonised again.

I'm sure you've said something like this before..........which I interpret as you really want all of Cyprus for yourselves

Zero marks for interpretation then.

The RoC is the only Internationally acceptable governing body for the WHOLE of Cyprus. Only the Turks dispute this.

Yes I do re-iterate my opinion, which is that I want to negate Turkish influence in Cyprus.

Do you have a problem with resolving the Cyprus issue by removing the one which has caused it?

Yes, in resolving it your way ..........

Any little bit of Turkish influence still remaining

How do you propose I give up any Turkish influence I (and many like me) have ? Do I wake up one morning and start to speak Greek ?

Because if an outsider / migrant from Country Y wants to live in Country X , they have to integrate with the customs of Country X (otherwise why GO there and not stay in Country Y) rather than force Country X to become Country Y .

Get it?

BTW Speaking the same language is a prerequisite not an option. You speak English in the UK don't you?

Of course I 'get it' your way....

But I'm talking about Turkish Cypriots, not outsiders, not migrants, but people that call Cyprus their home. My parents, grandparents, their parents, they were all born in Cyprus. But somehow you consider us as outsiders.

Well technically you are!

You are the last of the Invaders that have still not integrated.

Perhaps we need to ask why?

My answer would be that you do not want to integrate. You do not respect the culture you invaded and you want to change it.

So we have to defend ourselves from extinction, which is what would happen if we let you change and Turkify us.

This is typical GC mentality exposed, thank you for being honest which many GCs are not, you are a prime example of what GCs really think about TCs and the dangers we would face in a united a Cyprus. TCs should take note and understand what we are dealing with when we support partition as sharing acountry with this type of mentality will reduce you to a second class citizen in your own country ruled by GCs.

[Bananiot]

It is true that a lot of racism and chauvinism came out in a number of posts in this thread, mainly written by Greek Cypriots. Racists are a persistent greed of people and usually they sound as though they are the majority simply because they are noisy. I believe that the average Greek Cypriots are distancing themselves from the cries of the racists. The coming Presidential elections will also act as a measure as to how much the nationalist bunch that has ruled us for five years has managed to erode the soul of Greek Cypriots.

[Viewpoint]

It is true that a lot of racism and chauvinism came out in a number of posts in this thread, mainly written by Greek Cypriots. Racists are a persistent greed of people and usually they sound as though they are the majority simply because they are noisy. I believe that the average Greek Cypriots are distancing themselves from the cries of the racists. The coming Presidential elections will also act as a measure as to how much the nationalist bunch that has ruled us for five years has managed to erode the soul of Greek Cypriots.

Dont agree Bananiot on this matter, the comments on here are just clear indication of why we are so untrusting of GC intentions and demand extra ordinary measures to deter being brushed to one side by the GCs and insure a say in our own future.

[phoenix]

phoenix

Unless ALL the Turkish troops leave, ALL of Turkey's influence dissolved, ALL the settlers returned to Turkey, ALL of Cyprus restored to the RoC, we will continue to be in the SAME mess as we are in now.

Any little bit of Turkish influence still remaining will lead to the slow reintroduction, re-Turkification of the island that we are trying to get away from.

It's like trying to get rid of algae . . . unless you get rid of every last cell, as soon as your back is turned, they would have colonised again.

I'm sure you've said something like this before..........which I interpret as you really want all of Cyprus for yourselves

Zero marks for interpretation then.

The RoC is the only Internationally acceptable governing body for the WHOLE of Cyprus. Only the Turks dispute this.

Yes I do re-iterate my opinion, which is that I want to negate Turkish influence in Cyprus.

Do you have a problem with resolving the Cyprus issue by removing the one which has caused it?

Yes, in resolving it your way ..........

Any little bit of Turkish influence still remaining

How do you propose I give up any Turkish influence I (and many like me) have ? Do I wake up one morning and start to speak Greek ?

Because if an outsider / migrant from Country Y wants to live in Country X , they have to integrate with the customs of Country X (otherwise why GO there and not stay in Country Y) rather than force Country X to become Country Y .

Get it?

BTW Speaking the same language is a prerequisite not an option. You speak English in the UK don't you?

Of course I 'get it' your way....

But I'm talking about Turkish Cypriots, not outsiders, not migrants, but people that call Cyprus their home. My parents, grandparents, their parents, they were all born in Cyprus. But somehow you consider us as outsiders.

Well technically you are!

You are the last of the Invaders that have still not integrated.

Perhaps we need to ask why?

My answer would be that you do not want to integrate. You do not respect the culture you invaded and you want to change it.

So we have to defend ourselves from extinction, which is what would happen if we let you change and Turkify us.

This is typical GC mentality exposed, thank you for being honest which many GCs are not, you are a prime example of what GCs really think about TCs and the dangers we would face in a united a Cyprus. TCs should take note and understand what we are dealing with when we support partition as sharing acountry with this type of mentality will reduce you to a second class citizen in your own country ruled by GCs.

So that's a "NO! I don't want to integrate" from VP then