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For Bananiot- Annan's maps

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby phoenix » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:26 pm

'74LondonBoy wrote:
phoenix wrote:
'74LondonBoy wrote:
phoenix wrote:
'74LondonBoy wrote:
But I'm talking about Turkish Cypriots, not outsiders, not migrants, but people that call Cyprus their home. My parents, grandparents, their parents, they were all born in Cyprus. But somehow you consider us as outsiders.


Well technically you are!

You are the last of the Invaders that have still not integrated.

Perhaps we need to ask why?

My answer would be that you do not want to integrate. You do not respect the culture you invaded and you want to change it.

So we have to defend ourselves from extinction, which is what would happen if we let you change and Turkify us.


Wow, what a mindset - are you really concerned about extinction ?

You are slowly but surely telling me that there is no place in Cyprus for Turkish Cypriots.
Well, I honestly don't think we'll be leaving the island in your 'safe' hands.

Anyway, looks like we can never agree and you are doing your best to point me in the direction of partition.


On the contrary your mindset is recalcitrant to change and integration.

You would rather see partition of the island than accept the culture native to the island.


If you say so.


Evidently ....


Whatever :?

Righto! :D
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Postby 74LB » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:36 pm

Nikitas wrote:"So Bananiot was correct - almost half the SBA would have been returned to the Cypriot communities under the AP. " wrote London Boy

No he was not! The offer was made conditional to the Annan plan being accepted. Acceptance of the Annan plan would have multiplied the total area ot the SBAs at the expense of Cyprus as a whole, since it gave them sea territory which included the Exclusive Economic Zone stratching out to hundreds of miles in the sea. In effect it was a British ploy to INCREASE the SBA area if, and only if, the Annan pland was accepted by both sides.

Note that it is a unilateral offer, not a valid and binding agreement. It was Britain talking to itself, not to us, either one of us.

And above all- the Greek component state would still be cut in two by the Dekhelia base. If you fail to understand the significance of this then you have a problem!


Nikitas,
My reference was regarding the return of land - almost half would have been returned if the AP was accepted by both sides.

Your issue regards the Dhekhelia base area is a very valid one.
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Postby 74LB » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:40 pm

phoenix wrote:
'74LondonBoy wrote:
phoenix wrote:
'74LondonBoy wrote:
phoenix wrote:
'74LondonBoy wrote:
But I'm talking about Turkish Cypriots, not outsiders, not migrants, but people that call Cyprus their home. My parents, grandparents, their parents, they were all born in Cyprus. But somehow you consider us as outsiders.


Well technically you are!

You are the last of the Invaders that have still not integrated.

Perhaps we need to ask why?

My answer would be that you do not want to integrate. You do not respect the culture you invaded and you want to change it.

So we have to defend ourselves from extinction, which is what would happen if we let you change and Turkify us.


Wow, what a mindset - are you really concerned about extinction ?

You are slowly but surely telling me that there is no place in Cyprus for Turkish Cypriots.
Well, I honestly don't think we'll be leaving the island in your 'safe' hands.

Anyway, looks like we can never agree and you are doing your best to point me in the direction of partition.


On the contrary your mindset is recalcitrant to change and integration.

You would rather see partition of the island than accept the culture native to the island.


If you say so.


Evidently ....


Whatever :?

Righto! :D


Just need another 4800 posts like this and you too can become a VIP :wink:
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Postby Nikitas » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:43 pm

"because with our mentality it is probably better if the two communities are separated, for the immediate future, into their respective geographical regions that are mutually decided"

That is a point of view that many Cypriots, not just Bananiot, share. I respect everyone's point of view but please note the phrase "mutually decided". The partition lines, and they were partition lines, of the Annan plan were drawn for us by foreigners, each deciding how they wanted to suit themselves first and Cypriots second, if at all.

We have been living in a partitioned island since 1958. That is when the TMT set up its first "no go" areas for GCs. Over the years the extent of the partitioned area has varied but don't kid yourselves that we lived in a unitary state.

Unlike others here, I do not think that any form of BBF is different from partition. BBF IS PARTITION and as Bananiot says because of our outlook, and especially because of Turkey's overriding role in TC affairs, BBF will eventually become full partition. Within the EU, which is quick to force GCs to comply with the last comma in every regulation, but is willing to overlook gross violations by the other side, the GC part of BBF will be an officially imposed multi cultural society while the TC part will be exclusively Turkish. That is how it was in the Annan plan, that is what we have today. So what is the difference, why not vote for the Annan plan if it is the same as what is developing today?

One small detail called the Republic of Cyprus. Our one and only lifeline! No matter how Turkey tries to extinguish the GC presence in Cyprus, and do not kid yourselves about the long term Turkish goal which is removal of GC presence from Cyprus. The existence of the RoC prevents this. RoC is a nation with 50 years existence, membership in international organizations, in the EU, it has all the elements of a nation. No matter who tries what in the occupied part this nation exists and will exist.

As to the problem of the settlers the only people that can do anything meaningful about it are the TCs themselves. Voices are getting louder in the north about the settler problem. Now that the settlers are setting up their own political parties and their demands are formalised the TCs are waking up to realities of the situtation. And the irony is that the only support they can find is the existence of the RoC. It is through the presence of the RoC and its membership in the EU that the have a slim chance of stopping the onslaught of the settlers.

The first sign that Cyprus is heading for a solution will be the day that TCs will unite and officially, in international bodies, call for the removal of the settlers. Till then we are in a holding pattern and the RoC is vital to us all.
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Postby Get Real! » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:48 pm

Kikapu wrote:Bananiot,

Could I ask you please to respond to this post that was made to you specially...

Thanks.

Quit begging for attention Ki-a-poo!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby phoenix » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:05 pm

Bananiot wrote:Phoenix

Bananiot I am sorry, but I still view anyone who wants to give ANY part of Cyprus away to the Turks / other non-Cypriots as traitors.


When the different view is vilified we have a classic banana republic. These things do not happen in a truly democratic country that happens to be a member of the EU too. Anyway, you are too far away from the problems the natives face.


Bananiot . . . that is unfair, and I hope you meant only in miles (and even that is only for a few weeks now :D ).

Perhaps because I have been living in the UK for all my adult life I can draw the parallels from here to Cyprus. I can be detached about what I want for the Cyprus I am returning to.

I have watched the UK change . . . . for the worse!

I feel really sorry for the native English, their culture is being eroded away by foreigners who won't integrate. Their greatest threat is from the Muslim migrants who point blank refuse to accept the English culture, not the language, not the education, not the clothes, nor family life, nor women's rights etc.

Soon they WILL be asking for a separate state. :(

For me . . . I have been through all this before. I have seen my country SPLIT by the Muslims that won't integrate.

I am not religious but I attend (rather than resist) English school traditions, Carols, Harvest etc. I respect the laws and have married a (semi) Native. When I move to Cyprus I will integrate there too . . . I may even go to church :lol: .

Humans are complex and clever enough to adapt to their environment. It is up to the foreigners who choose to migrate, to adapt to their new environment otherwise, why choose to go there?

The Turks chose to come to Cyprus. By refusing to accept the native Cypriots they have set up a conflict. The Cypriots are having to fight for their survival, against the erosion of their culture.

Why can't the TCs respect and accept Cyprus as a WHOLE country with its unique traditions? Why do they have to break it and have a piece of their own, where they can carry on as 100% Turks and 0% Cypriot?

I suppose they still harbour the Invader's mentality which is to destroy what they have conquered, rather than respect it and adapt to the new niche.

If they are prepared to adapt, then we can all proceed together with SLOW normal change, like trees that bend in the wind rather than resist and break.

If they succeed in destroying Cyprus, what / who next ?
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Postby phoenix » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:12 pm

'74LondonBoy wrote:
phoenix wrote:
'74LondonBoy wrote:
phoenix wrote:
'74LondonBoy wrote:
phoenix wrote:
'74LondonBoy wrote:
But I'm talking about Turkish Cypriots, not outsiders, not migrants, but people that call Cyprus their home. My parents, grandparents, their parents, they were all born in Cyprus. But somehow you consider us as outsiders.


Well technically you are!

You are the last of the Invaders that have still not integrated.

Perhaps we need to ask why?

My answer would be that you do not want to integrate. You do not respect the culture you invaded and you want to change it.

So we have to defend ourselves from extinction, which is what would happen if we let you change and Turkify us.


Wow, what a mindset - are you really concerned about extinction ?

You are slowly but surely telling me that there is no place in Cyprus for Turkish Cypriots.
Well, I honestly don't think we'll be leaving the island in your 'safe' hands.

Anyway, looks like we can never agree and you are doing your best to point me in the direction of partition.


On the contrary your mindset is recalcitrant to change and integration.

You would rather see partition of the island than accept the culture native to the island.


If you say so.


Evidently ....


Whatever :?

Righto! :D


Just need another 4800 posts like this and you too can become a VIP :wink:

Can we work together on this common goal? :lol:
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Postby Kikapu » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:00 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Kikapu wrote:Bananiot,

Could I ask you please to respond to this post that was made to you specially...

Thanks.

Quit begging for attention Ki-a-poo!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


GR,

You have left the letter "k" out, as in Kik-a-Poo........ :lol:

The reason why I want Bananiot to confirm what he has written, is so that I can upgrade the results of the recent survey taken in the "TRNC", who said 60% of all those living there, wanted a 2 state (partition) solution. I know how much Miss Piggy (VP),
Mr. Frog (mrfromng) and Pinocchio (Zan) revere what Bananiot says to be accurate and is held at very high regard by them, and I'm not disputing those who does hold him at high regard.

I took the fact, that the Settlers and the True TC's were in equal numbers at the ratio of 1:1, but what Bananiot is saying, and who am I to argue with him, that the ratio is in fact 2:1 in the Settlers favour, therefore, when I originally gave the settlers and the True TC's 50-50 on the 60% survey result, at 30% each, according to Bananiots figures, it should have been 60-40 in the Settlers favour, so that 60% survey result would have looked more like 20% TC's and 40% Settlers. So in actuality, only 20% TC's wants a Partition, and the other 80% other form of a settlement.

So what ever Miss Piggy, Mr. frog and Pinocchio says, that they represent the overwhelming majority of the TC's for a Partition, are just having a lot of Kik-a-Poo all over them. They are only representing the overwhelming settlers for a Partition. No wonder these three "Cartoon Characters" wants the settlers to stay in the "TRNC". Well, as Nikitias said earlier, the TC's will be looking for a cover pretty soon, since they are going to be out voted in their own "government" as well as being out numbered in their own "country".
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Postby phoenix » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:21 pm

Nikitas wrote:"because with our mentality it is probably better if the two communities are separated, for the immediate future, into their respective geographical regions that are mutually decided"

That is a point of view that many Cypriots, not just Bananiot, share. I respect everyone's point of view but please note the phrase "mutually decided". The partition lines, and they were partition lines, of the Annan plan were drawn for us by foreigners, each deciding how they wanted to suit themselves first and Cypriots second, if at all.

We have been living in a partitioned island since 1958. That is when the TMT set up its first "no go" areas for GCs. Over the years the extent of the partitioned area has varied but don't kid yourselves that we lived in a unitary state.

Unlike others here, I do not think that any form of BBF is different from partition. BBF IS PARTITION and as Bananiot says because of our outlook, and especially because of Turkey's overriding role in TC affairs, BBF will eventually become full partition. Within the EU, which is quick to force GCs to comply with the last comma in every regulation, but is willing to overlook gross violations by the other side, the GC part of BBF will be an officially imposed multi cultural society while the TC part will be exclusively Turkish. That is how it was in the Annan plan, that is what we have today. So what is the difference, why not vote for the Annan plan if it is the same as what is developing today?

One small detail called the Republic of Cyprus. Our one and only lifeline! No matter how Turkey tries to extinguish the GC presence in Cyprus, and do not kid yourselves about the long term Turkish goal which is removal of GC presence from Cyprus. The existence of the RoC prevents this. RoC is a nation with 50 years existence, membership in international organizations, in the EU, it has all the elements of a nation. No matter who tries what in the occupied part this nation exists and will exist.

As to the problem of the settlers the only people that can do anything meaningful about it are the TCs themselves. Voices are getting louder in the north about the settler problem. Now that the settlers are setting up their own political parties and their demands are formalised the TCs are waking up to realities of the situtation. And the irony is that the only support they can find is the existence of the RoC. It is through the presence of the RoC and its membership in the EU that the have a slim chance of stopping the onslaught of the settlers.

The first sign that Cyprus is heading for a solution will be the day that TCs will unite and officially, in international bodies, call for the removal of the settlers. Till then we are in a holding pattern and the RoC is vital to us all.


What a brilliant post Nikitas. :D

. . . the conclusion being that if we accept mega-partition, then another mini-partition will take place to separate the True-TCs from the Turk-TCs and Turks, and then a micro-partition to separate the Turk-TCs from the Turks, and so on. That is: Big fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite them and little fleas have smaller fleas .... and so on ad infinitum.

Cyprus is being atomised :(
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Postby Get Real! » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:28 pm

Kikapu wrote:GR,

You have left the letter "k" out, as in Kik-a-Poo........ :lol:

:oops:

The reason why I want Bananiot to confirm what he has written, is so that I can upgrade the results of the recent survey taken in the "TRNC", who said 60% of all those living there, wanted a 2 state (partition) solution. I know how much Miss Piggy (VP),
Mr. Frog (mrfromng) and Pinocchio (Zan) revere what Bananiot says to be accurate and is held at very high regard by them, and I'm not disputing those who does hold him at high regard.

I took the fact, that the Settlers and the True TC's were in equal numbers at the ratio of 1:1, but what Bananiot is saying, and who am I to argue with him, that the ratio is in fact 2:1 in the Settlers favour, therefore, when I originally gave the settlers and the True TC's 50-50 on the 60% survey result, at 30% each, according to Bananiots figures, it should have been 60-40 in the Settlers favour, so that 60% survey result would have looked more like 20% TC's and 40% Settlers. So in actuality, only 20% TC's wants a Partition, and the other 80% other form of a settlement.

So what ever Miss Piggy, Mr. frog and Pinocchio says, that they represent the overwhelming majority of the TC's for a Partition, are just having a lot of Kik-a-Poo all over them. They are only representing the overwhelming settlers for a Partition. No wonder these three "Cartoon Characters" wants the settlers to stay in the "TRNC". Well, as Nikitias said earlier, the TC's will be looking for a cover pretty soon, since they are going to be out voted in their own "government" as well as being out numbered in their own "country".

At the last census (2006?) the TC authorities did not allow the UN to observe so it's anybody's guess what's going on in there and it's also highly suspicious that the Turks may well be greater in number than the TCs otherwise why wasn't the UN allowed unless there was something to hide!
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