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For Bananiot- Annan's maps

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby T_C » Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:41 pm

'74LondonBoy wrote:
phoenix

Unless ALL the Turkish troops leave, ALL of Turkey's influence dissolved, ALL the settlers returned to Turkey, ALL of Cyprus restored to the RoC, we will continue to be in the SAME mess as we are in now.

Any little bit of Turkish influence still remaining will lead to the slow reintroduction, re-Turkification of the island that we are trying to get away from.

It's like trying to get rid of algae . . . unless you get rid of every last cell, as soon as your back is turned, they would have colonised again.


I'm sure you've said something like this before..........which I interpret as you really want all of Cyprus for yourselves :twisted:



Good morning mate! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby 74LB » Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:46 pm

T_C

and a very good evening to you as well :D
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Postby phoenix » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:05 pm

'74LondonBoy wrote:
phoenix

Unless ALL the Turkish troops leave, ALL of Turkey's influence dissolved, ALL the settlers returned to Turkey, ALL of Cyprus restored to the RoC, we will continue to be in the SAME mess as we are in now.

Any little bit of Turkish influence still remaining will lead to the slow reintroduction, re-Turkification of the island that we are trying to get away from.

It's like trying to get rid of algae . . . unless you get rid of every last cell, as soon as your back is turned, they would have colonised again.


I'm sure you've said something like this before..........which I interpret as you really want all of Cyprus for yourselves :twisted:


Zero marks for interpretation then. :D

The RoC is the only Internationally acceptable governing body for the WHOLE of Cyprus. Only the Turks dispute this.

Yes I do re-iterate my opinion, which is that I want to negate Turkish influence in Cyprus.

Do you have a problem with resolving the Cyprus issue by removing the one which has caused it? :?
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Postby denizaksulu » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:07 pm

Get Real! wrote:
iceman wrote:
Nikitas wrote:And this is what 18 per cent of the island looks like. This is a map posted by Kifeas a while back. Compare it to the Annan maps and judge how "equitable" his plan was. Noe especially the large coastline that even this map offers to the 18 per cent of the land mass.
Image


nikitas
There is not a single source of drinking water in the above map and 80% of the coastline is inaccessible volcanic rock...not so "equitable" is it?

I think this map is more to demonstrate the difference in size between an 18% (which I don't agree with but is besides the point here) and the AP version.



Non of the territories on the mapslooks like MY Cyprus. I want to call All Cyprus my HOME.
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Postby Bananiot » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:10 pm

Some time ago I was asked to write why I voted in favour of the Annan Plan. For those that have missed it, this is what I wrote:

WHY I SUPPORTED THE ANNAN PLAN

The year 2004 was immensely significant for Cyprus. It was the first time in more than 30 years that a comprehensive plan was offered to the two communities of Cyprus, Greeks and Turks, for a solution to a problem that has lasted for a very long time. The Turkish Cypriots voted in significant numbers for the proposed solution while the Greek Cypriots heeded the advice of their President and gave a resounding “no” to the Secretary General of the UN that prepared and proposed the plan. April 2004 was the month when the people of Cyprus were called upon to decide for the future of their island.

The Plan itself left many things to be desired. One could almost find reasons to vote against it in every paragraph and every clause of it. As someone said, even the proposed new flag of the unified island looked really bad. However, one needed to decide on more complex issues and really it was not about saying a simple “yes” or a simple “no”. The most important question we had to answer was: Could we hope for something better in the future and thus dismiss the proposed plan of the UN Secretary General or go for it, because the alternative would be partition and eventual accession of the occupied part of Cyprus by Turkey. President Papadopoulos had an ace under his sleeve. He called upon the Greek Cypriots to give a loud “no” because we were only a week away from becoming a full member of the European Union. “Why vote “yes” when we can wait for another week and then ask for a better, European solution” he asked the people.

The Annan Plan was a plan that was supported by the international community (UN and EU). There were many things in it that could have been better. Papadopoulos did not negotiate it with a view of making it better for the Greek Cypriots. He in fact made it worse (Annan 3 was much better than the final plan) so that he could justify the loud "no" he was asking. It could be that Papadopoulos sincerely believed that the EU would step in with a better plan after we joined this exclusive club. Some think that he never had the stomach for a Bizonal, Bicommunal Federation and he used the EU hand to trick the people into rejecting the plan.

Of course, in the world we live, there are no ideal solutions but options (according to the great author Stanislav Lem) especially for a tiny weenie country such as Cyprus. We have been offered some better options in the past but refused to take them, making sure that the Turks received the blame for the stalemate. This worked quite well while Denktash ruled supreme in the north. Basically, we kept the flame going for a different kind of solution that would see Cyprus becoming a unitary state once again with the majority running the country and the minority enjoying all legitimate rights. Of course we were thinking wishfully, as always, but when things did change in the north, our shortcomings were quickly exposed. The whole world now thinks that we are the side to blame and that the Turkish Cypriot community is to be rewarded for maintaining a positive and helpful attitude. The victims became the guilty part and Turkey was called upon by the UN to continue her good efforts for a solution. The amazing thing is that Papadopoulos endorsed the UN call.

Some questions need to be asked at this late hour, when partition of Cyprus is quite ominous: Can we climb down from the clouds and face realities? Realities that were formulated not only by Turkey but mainly because of our own incredible lust to turn the island into a part of Greece (Makarios's speeches in Panayia and elsewhere in the early 60's pay testament to the fact). Papadopoulos and his government have been in charge for almost four years. Doesn't it strike as odd that he has not made a single proposition as to how we can go about solving our problem? Does Papadopoulos give the impression that he wants a quick solution? Does anyone understand what he actually wants? Why do people not trust him? Has the whole world teamed up to conspire against us? Is it okay for us to shout "thieves" at the Anglo-Americans in such an undiplomatically resentful way? Are we offering the best service to our country by alienating ourselves from the most influential countries that control this part of the world? Is this a patriotic thing to do?

I supported the Annan Plan and voted for the Turkish army to leave Cyprus and the number of settlers to be restricted to a few thousands. I voted for the Plan because I knew fully well that it was an option that we could not afford not to take. Simitis, the Prime Minister of Greece for more than ten years, urged us to vote for the plan, along with other politicians in Greece. He knew only too well that it was the best we could do, under the circumstances.

Furthermore, even with the benefit of hindsight, if I had to choose, I would probably still choose the Annan Plan, even compared to a plan that offered a unified Cyprus, because with our mentality it is probably better if the two communities are separated, for the immediate future, into their respective geographical regions that are mutually decided. From this point of view the Plan was a masterpiece and took well into account, both our recent history and the mentality of a people with zero political culture.

Yet, what weighed even more heavily in my mind prior to the referenda was that I knew all too well that Papadopoulos will never be able to manage the "no" of the Greek Cypriot community. Klerides and Vassiliou would have done it in an elegant and a diplomatically acceptable manner. They could have easily shown the world that the Greek Cypriot community did not reject a solution but a specific plan. Papadopoulos will never be able to do this.

Remember how he cried on TV when he asked the Greek Cypriots to give a loud "no"?

A politically cultured man would have cried if he had asked his people to vote "yes".
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Postby denizaksulu » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:11 pm

Bananiot wrote:No GR, the issue is the continuous presence of Turkey in Cyprus with 40 000 soldiers and thousands of settlers whose number is increasing by the day and the partition of our island, for which you voted for in 2003. The issue is, in the 5 years of Papadopoulos presidency we are now seen as the culprits and the Turkish Cypriots as the victims, by the international community.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Bananiot » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:13 pm

No ideal solutions, Phoenix, but options. Think about this Pheonix and think hard, for its easy to resort to populist rhetoric that is most palatable but eventually brings more misery and pain.
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Postby denizaksulu » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:16 pm

phoenix wrote:
Bananiot wrote:No GR, the issue is the continuous presence of Turkey in Cyprus with 40 000 soldiers and thousands of settlers whose number is increasing by the day and the partition of our island, for which you voted for in 2003. The issue is, in the 5 years of Papadopoulos presidency we are now seen as the culprits and the Turkish Cypriots as the victims, by the international community.


Bananiot I am really sorry you see fit to accept a partial solution.

Unless ALL the Turkish troops leave, ALL of Turkey's influence dissolved, ALL the settlers returned to Turkey, ALL of Cyprus restored to the RoC, we will continue to be in the SAME mess as we are in now.

Any little bit of Turkish influence still remaining will lead to the slow reintroduction, re-Turkification of the island that we are trying to get away from.

It's like trying to get rid of algae . . . unless you get rid of every last cell, as soon as your back is turned, they would have colonised again.

Same goes for the BASES and British influence. Complete and sole governing of Cyprus by RoC, otherwise we are back to square one and vulnerable to continued disruption of Sovereignty.




Phoenix mou, you always ask for the impossible. You cannot remove all the settlers. I wish that was posible. You would have EU and the ECHR on our backs. I wish youd leave your Biology/microbiology at home. :lol:

Bestest Regards
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Postby 74LB » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:18 pm

phoenix wrote:
'74LondonBoy wrote:
phoenix

Unless ALL the Turkish troops leave, ALL of Turkey's influence dissolved, ALL the settlers returned to Turkey, ALL of Cyprus restored to the RoC, we will continue to be in the SAME mess as we are in now.

Any little bit of Turkish influence still remaining will lead to the slow reintroduction, re-Turkification of the island that we are trying to get away from.

It's like trying to get rid of algae . . . unless you get rid of every last cell, as soon as your back is turned, they would have colonised again.


I'm sure you've said something like this before..........which I interpret as you really want all of Cyprus for yourselves :twisted:


Zero marks for interpretation then. :D

The RoC is the only Internationally acceptable governing body for the WHOLE of Cyprus. Only the Turks dispute this.

Yes I do re-iterate my opinion, which is that I want to negate Turkish influence in Cyprus.

Do you have a problem with resolving the Cyprus issue by removing the one which has caused it? :?



Yes, in resolving it your way ..........
Any little bit of Turkish influence still remaining


How do you propose I give up any Turkish influence I (and many like me) have ? Do I wake up one morning and start to speak Greek ?
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Postby denizaksulu » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:22 pm

'74LondonBoy wrote:
phoenix

Unless ALL the Turkish troops leave, ALL of Turkey's influence dissolved, ALL the settlers returned to Turkey, ALL of Cyprus restored to the RoC, we will continue to be in the SAME mess as we are in now.

Any little bit of Turkish influence still remaining will lead to the slow reintroduction, re-Turkification of the island that we are trying to get away from.

It's like trying to get rid of algae . . . unless you get rid of every last cell, as soon as your back is turned, they would have colonised again.


I'm sure you've said something like this before..........which I interpret as you really want all of Cyprus for yourselves :twisted:



Got it in ONE 74London Boy
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