The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


For Bananiot- Annan's maps

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby boomerang » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:27 am

Bananiot wrote:Papadopoulos also claims to support federation. In fact, in order to appear convincing, he told another one of his big time lies. He said that he spent the good part of 1974 and 1975 travelling to villages in Kyrenia trying to convince people of the necessity of federation!

Boomerang, I also think that the Annan Plan is dead and buried. Does this make you feel any better? What I have been saying - and it appears you failed to understand - is that the next paln will be worse than the A.P. Just like the A.P. was worse than the Gali Ideas.


Boomerang, I also think that the Annan Plan is dead and buried.

Refreshing to hear you say this Bananiot...So lets stop wasting time in even talking about it...There is no point...

Does this make you feel any better?

Yes it makes me feel better coz, now we can concetrate in getting back on track with highlighting the fact that Cyprus was and is still been raped by turkey...Unless ofcource you have a problem with this...

What I have been saying - and it appears you failed to understand - is that the next paln will be worse than the A.P. Just like the A.P. was worse than the Gali Ideas

Hard to understand you Bananiot, why not flog your crystal ball for all of us to see?...

Different era Bananiot, and this is the point you are missing...Rules have changed...Cyprus in the EU, turkey wanting to join the EU...I see the Cyprus problem being a noose around turkey's neck...After all it's turkey that wanna join and not the other way around...The EU can do without turkey but the million dollar question is, can turkey do without the EU?

I say wait until turkey progresses into the EU a bit more and then start looking for that elusive federal/unitary system...Now it's too early, in fact way to early...

Basically Bananiot we both want the same thing...We both want prosperity , peace and co existence on the island for all Cypriots...Its the way and our perception towards these goals that differ...Never lose sight of this...
User avatar
boomerang
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 5:56 am

Postby boomerang » Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:31 am

EPSILON wrote:
Bananiot wrote:Papadopoulos also claims to support federation. In fact, in order to appear convincing, he told another one of his big time lies. He said that he spent the good part of 1974 and 1975 travelling to villages in Kyrenia trying to convince people of the necessity of federation!

Boomerang, I also think that the Annan Plan is dead and buried. Does this make you feel any better? What I have been saying - and it appears you failed to understand - is that the next paln will be worse than the A.P. Just like the A.P. was worse than the Gali Ideas.


All plans since 1954 have only one guide and target- partition-each one separatetly played its role- the target is near to be achieved.!!!


We strive for co-existence and you strive for partition...just as well you live in Greece...you lot started all this shit with being a bitch to your motherland...same with the other side...

Ain't there some uninhabited rocks in the aegean where you lot can be deported so you can throw rocks and pull faces at each other? :lol:
User avatar
boomerang
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 5:56 am

Postby Expatkiwi » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:03 am

boomerang wrote:
Ain't there some uninhabited rocks in the aegean where you lot can be deported so you can throw rocks and pull faces at each other? :lol:


Maybe not in the Aegean, but how about in the Southern Hemisphere. Australia comes to mind...
User avatar
Expatkiwi
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:24 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Postby boomerang » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:24 am

way ahead of you on this one...take your self for example...the southern hemispere already exported the rotten apples...and to the US...the land of the la las... :lol:
User avatar
boomerang
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 5:56 am

Postby Expatkiwi » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:48 am

boomerang wrote:way ahead of you on this one...take your self for example...the southern hemispere already exported the rotten apples...and to the US...the land of the la las...


Hey, I've got no beef with the good old U.S. of A. I'm proud to be a part of both. Are you jealous because you aren't?
User avatar
Expatkiwi
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:24 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Postby boomerang » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:14 pm

Expatkiwi wrote:
boomerang wrote:way ahead of you on this one...take your self for example...the southern hemisphere already exported the rotten apples...and to the US...the land of the la las...


Hey, I've got no beef with the good old U.S. of A. I'm proud to be a part of both. Are you jealous because you aren't?


Allow me to clarify my answer to you...You suggested that the bad apples be exported to Australia, southern hemisphere...And I said way ahead of you...the southern hemisphere already exported the bad apple, meaning you, to la la land...I hope this time is clear for you to understand...

And about your reply...Why would I be jealous...I visited the US many times I was offered a job there, I declined as my standard of living would have gone backwards...

Whats your excuse for migrating...Standard of living going up or going down?...I would say going down coz you excell at the sport... :lol:
User avatar
boomerang
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 7337
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 5:56 am

Postby Kikapu » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:14 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:VP,

I hope you do realise, there are only 3 options for the TC's.

a) stay as we are now...a de facto state without recognition

b) try to achieve a BBF the way you want it, which the GC's will not go for it, or

c) a True Federation with no Guarantors from outsiders. Let the EU be our guidance in doing the right thing to all Cypriots.

I really do not believe a Partition with your own percentage of Cyprus is in the cards. The recent survey said that, the way I interpreted the results and also, Turkey will never allow it, as long as she wants to enter the EU. Aside from that, I do not think the "TRNC" will see the light of EU either. So basically you will be stuck next to a EU member to the South and Turkey to the North, who will start treating you like a "overstaying one's welcome" king of relationship, not forgetting, the North will be hard to separate from the mainland. I don't care how much the TC's welcomed the Turks to Cyprus in 1974, they will not be able to stand them, but will be powerless to do anything about it. I do not think that's the kind of Independent "TRNC" is what the Partitionist are envisioning. Given the latest survey, I would say, that overwhelming majority of the TC's, do not want a Partition, but a Partition is what they may end up with, if both sides can agree with the land distribution and compensation. I'm really not trying to put a damper on your partitioning wishes, but be prepared for the worse.

Now I know, that your first choice is to have b)..the BBF, because you will have everything you want as well as Turkey's power to give you security, but what may be good for you, may not be at all good for the GC's, so you better scrap that idea.

I really do not think you want to keep the way things are right now much longer, so what is your next option. That will have to be C) a True Federation with all of its perks. You may even help get Turkey into the EU so that as a EU member, they can be a plus in Cyprus as suppose to being an occupational force. Of course, in this arrangement, you will not be able to become your own "EFENDI", but you will more or less in the Northern State of Cyprus. Progress takes time to even come close to having a TC as a president. But does that really matter, since the TC's will have some power that their votes in a coalition government will be very significant. Welcome to True Democracy and not the mickey mouse type that is practiced all over Middle East, South Asia, as well as Central and South America. In my humble opinion, I think the "TRNC" deserves a complete partition and left to be alone. Lets see what they will do with their small population in trying to build any kind of sustainable economy. In the meantime the RoC will move forward within the EU, and the "TRNC", well, who knows.!!!


Your arrogance and despot attitude is to a level of nausea, you appear to just make things up as you go along according what misconceptions you have nurtured in your own brain. You seem to think you know more about the TCs than we do and you have not interacted with us in our own environment for over 43 years, this hardly makes any kind of expert at best you are just stabbing in the dark thinking yet you know best.

There is always another option which is fight on a political level for recognition, whether you feel its obtainable or not does not change anything, its just your viewpoint which we as civilized people have to respect but in turn demand you to show the same respect for our viewpoint however different it maybe from yours.


Ok VP, have it your way and continue living in the "never never land" fantasy that you will get what it is that you actually want for a settlemen over the wishes of the majority.

Have you not gotten a clue yet, that your actions over the last 34 years has been forced on Cypriots and it has not been agreed on by the majority, and unless the majority of Cypriots also agree with what it is that you want, forcing your will on them will not be accepted.

I thought I would remind you of the obvious. :idea: :idea:
User avatar
Kikapu
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 18050
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:18 pm

Postby Expatkiwi » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:37 pm

boomerang wrote:
Expatkiwi wrote:
boomerang wrote:way ahead of you on this one...take your self for example...the southern hemisphere already exported the rotten apples...and to the US...the land of the la las...


Hey, I've got no beef with the good old U.S. of A. I'm proud to be a part of both. Are you jealous because you aren't?


Allow me to clarify my answer to you...You suggested that the bad apples be exported to Australia, southern hemisphere...And I said way ahead of you...the southern hemisphere already exported the bad apple, meaning you, to la la land...I hope this time is clear for you to understand...

And about your reply...Why would I be jealous...I visited the US many times I was offered a job there, I declined as my standard of living would have gone backwards...

Whats your excuse for migrating...Standard of living going up or going down?...I would say going down coz you excell at the sport... :lol:


Does the phrase "go drown yourself" mean anything to you?
User avatar
Expatkiwi
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1454
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:24 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Postby Kikapu » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:42 pm

Bananiot wrote:Papadopoulos also claims to support federation. In fact, in order to appear convincing, he told another one of his big time lies. He said that he spent the good part of 1974 and 1975 travelling to villages in Kyrenia trying to convince people of the necessity of federation!

Boomerang, I also think that the Annan Plan is dead and buried. Does this make you feel any better? What I have been saying - and it appears you failed to understand - is that the next paln will be worse than the A.P. Just like the A.P. was worse than the Gali Ideas.


Bananiot,

I'm afraid there's never going to be a good settlement plan for Cyprus, until Turkey is well placed into a corner in having to make the choice of keeping the "TRNC" or entering the EU............70 Million Turkish Citizens welfare V's 300,000 "TRNC Citizens". Once Turkey is forced to make a choice, we will only then get to have the possibility for peace if she is smart or no peace if she decides otherwise.

One thing Turkey will not be able to do, is "to have her cake and eat it too", or as my old girlfriend use to say, "to have Edith and eat her too". :lol:
User avatar
Kikapu
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 18050
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:18 pm

Postby Bananiot » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:36 pm

Kikapu, I can't really see how your answer ties up with what I wrote. True, Turkey was the intransigent part for many years, after 19974. In fact, the conventional wisdom was that the issue was solved in 1974.

Thus, to take it from where you left it, the Greek Prime Minister Costas Simitis, together with Glafkos Klerides (both, men of great vision), worked out a comprehensive plan to try to force Turkey to change her tune. However, this could only materialise if Cyprus became a member of the European union. The European Union could only allow Cyprus to join the exclusive club with her problem unsolved only if it remained steadfast on a course for solution on the basis of the Makarios-Denktash and Kyprianou-Denktash agreements.

Simitis and Klerides worked hard to convince the EU of our sincere wish for solution. We had good friends in the EU at the time, because of our sensible policies and together we managed to make Turkey backtrack (for the first time since 1974) and admit that in Cyprus there existed a problem that needed to be solved. Until then, Turkey threatened loudly that if Cyprus was ever accepted into the EU, her response would be unprecedented. We convinced the EU that we could not remain forever hostages to Turkey since we were the part that sincerely wanted solution. The idea was that once we were in we could pressurise Turkey, with the help of our friends, to shed her intransigence and come to the negotiation table to look for solution. You see, Turkey had her sights too on the European Union now.

For a while things moved the way they were planned. The people of Cyprus on both sides of the divide were very excited. There was an air of expectation that something really good would happen. The gloom was begging to lift until the environment changed dramatically. In Greece Simitis stepped down and George Papandreou lost the elections. In Cyprus Klerides was replaced by Papadopoulos in February 2003. Papadopoulos, a well known nationalist and chauvinist who never saw the Turkish Cypriots as our compatriots, set his sights on spoiling the day. He managed to trick Christofias that he would work to solve the Cyprus issue on the basis of the Annan plan (no. 3 at the time which he would negotiate to better it, as he was a self confessed great negotiator). He also fooled our friends in the international community who bent over backwards to get us into the European union, with the Cyprus issue still unsolved. From the first day he took the wheel he made it his life mission to bankrupt the negotiations. Because he did not want to appear as the part that was responsible fro the breakdown in the negotiations, he sent an urgent letter to the SG of the UN in December 2003 asking for talks on the double because he was sure that if Cyprus became a member of the EU with her problem unsolved, we would head straight for Europartition, as he called it. Papadopoulos never banked, however, on the possibility that a Turkish Cypriot leader would call his bluff.

When Talat said, right lets get down and solve it, cold sweat run down the forehead of Papadopoulos. For him now, only one issue existed. To negotiate the plan in such a way as to make the people take the responsibility for its rejection. This immoral tactics, he thought, would allow him to say that look, we did our best but the plan is so bad it cannot be accepted by the people. What else can I do? I tried my best to arrive at a viable and functional solution but the one I was offered was simply not good enough.

Cyprus is now a member of the EU and Turkey is trying to get in. Some people seem to think that we alone can shape the future of Turkey and that the accession of Turkey depends on Cyprus. This is a misconception to say the least. We have lost our leverage by not sticking to an agreed agenda and thus we carry no weight in the EU now. Not only because we are small but also because we are light headed. Turkey's future will not be shaped by Cyprus. In fact, when we tried to question her credentials we were pushed aside like we were nobody. Chapter after chapter is opening for Turkey and we are just sorry onlookers. Our position in the EU is getting more precarious by the day and now we are seen to side with the Russians and go against the wishes of our stakeholders.

Kikapu, I hope you see that we are nothing in the EU. We are the laughing stock of the other 26 members and we have lost the great leverage we had on Turkey and thus we lost all hope of finding a solution. The Papadopoulos government has condemned Cyprus to partition because the people that surround Papadopoulos are the extreme nationalists who brought on us the calamity in the first place!
User avatar
Bananiot
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6397
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:51 pm
Location: Nicosia

PreviousNext

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests