Cyprus-Forum.com

[boomerang]

Bananiot you are really looking at the world through a kaleidoscope...There is no 2 options...Its a one option and that's bloodshed, as partiotion will for sure bring bloodshed...Blind freddy could see that the Annan plan was a partition plan that would have brought bloodshed/partition down the track...

Now is this what you want and support?

[Kikapu]

Kikapu, please do me a favour. If partition and bloodshed are better than the Annan Plan then perhaps some people may need their kkele tested.

Can you please tell me what was the difference between the AP to BBF to Partition. For all intensive purposes Bananiot, Partition was the order of the day with the AP.... it was just a matter of time.

But to answer your question, I would prefer partition over bloodshed.

[humanist]

Kifeas

It is with great sadness that I have personally come to the conclusion that there is no possibility for the Cyprus problem to be solved along the lines of a so-called bi-zonal and bi-communal federation and on the basis of a political equality partnership deal between the GC and the TC communities. The reason for this is due to the fact that the two communities are largely incompatible to each other, and there is absolutely no relationship between their ideological orientations and world view!

The vast majority of the members of the TC community are literally brainwashed and fully subscribe to the kemalist ideology, a totalitarian nationalist ideology based on the “ideas” and “doctrines” of a dictator that died some decades ago, and which in particular is completely intolerable to anyone non-Turkish in terms of ethnic consciousness! I have reached to the conclusion that it is impossible for the TC community to abandon this ideology, and therefore there is no meaning in having any partnership relationship with them, as it is doomed to eventually fail, with all the unpleasant consequences that will emerge due to the dissolution and abandonment of the RoC in favor of such a “virgin-birth” uncertain new state of affairs!

It is impossible for the GC community to consider any of its members living under the authority of a state subscribing to such an ideology, centered around the principles of the father of the Turks (Ataturk,) and therefore there is also no meaning in having any partnership agreement with them; if this will give them the ownership of as much as 30% of the area and 50% of the coastlines of Cyprus (a proportion of the country they do not historically and /or demographically legitimately own,) plus sharing with them the international sovereignty, status and personality of the whole of Cyprus (central government!)

It is with great sadness that I have personally come to the conclusion that only two options are left for us (GCs) to consider! The first is that the Cyprus problem will have to unfortunately be solved via a new bloodshed at some stage in the future! The second one is to negotiate partition on the basis of historical and demographic rights and considerations -at worst for the GCs on the basis of an 80:20 split! Unfortunately there is no other way out, and therefore we GCs have to be prepared for any of the only two options!

Truly sad, for I was always in favor of a one united Cyprus –even under a federal roof, a home for all the Greek and Turkish Cypriots that would be able to live harmoniously among themselves and with all their cultural rights and ethnic dignity fully respected and observed, as equal citizens to each other! Unfortunately, the TC community (the vast majority of it) -due to its outdated kemalist ideological orientation, is invalid for such a sharing and cohabitation with any other community!

Kifeas I have read your post and I am sadenned by your summary. I am not sure if I can appreciate yoru point of view as we may share similar cultural ideologies or what it is but I can see that the main obstacle to the Cypro is the perspective taken by the Turkish speaking Cypriots

There is though another solution and that is for all Cyriots to unite in spirit and belief and unite under one people one nation and that is the Island nation of Cyprus as Cypriots. If we can achieve that anything is possible.

[Bananiot]

I can't really subscribe to your line of thought Kikapu, however noble it sounds. I sincerely wish it was possible to do exactly as you say but I know as well as you do that this is Middle East and here things are done differently, for reasons which are very real. I will not dwell on historical facts that have shaped the way we see each other. We have done this on so many occasions. I will stick to the bear necessities and try to be practical. Here is an example: The solution we all want needs to be accepted by both communities. The Turkish Cypriot community will only accept a solution that preserves the right of Turkey for intervention. I do not like this but here you are. This is a fact. How do we go about solving this matter? Can we the Greek Cypriot community agree to this demand? On the other hand, can we allow this discrepancy, let's say, sink our hopes for solution?

I have given this example just to show the deep mistrust that exists that goes back for centuries. I think there is only one way to get over this. Accept a solution that will not be the ideal one. Introduce safeguards that may be complex but which will allow the two communities to co exist peacefully for some decades. The generation that has lived though the dark years will slowly go and the new generations that will come up will be free from the prejudices that are running riot all over us. Perhaps after 50 or even more years of peaceful and prosperous co existence within the EU we could agree for modifications that will allow for a better and fairer for all system of governance.

P.S. I have no doubt you would reject bloodshed Kikapu.

[Bananiot]

Time to call it a day, folks. Goodnight.

[boomerang]

I have given this example just to show the deep mistrust that exists that goes back for centuries. I think there is only one way to get over this. Accept a solution that will not be the ideal one. Introduce safeguards that may be complex but which will allow the two communities to co exist peacefully for some decades. The generation that has lived though the dark years will slowly go and the new generations that will come up will be free from the prejudices that are running riot all over us. Perhaps after 50 or even more years of peaceful and prosperous co existence within the EU we could agree for modifications that will allow for a better and fairer for all system of governance.

.

And you think the Annan plan gave you all that?...Are you ready to bank on what turkey doess? when to this very day she has no hesitation of mass murdering her own people?....a third world country to boot?...with the 2nd highest IMF debt?...hmmm bananiot, you must be smoking some good shit...

And you call all this mistrust?...I will tell you what mistrust is Bananiot...Is wanting to join a club, while you are not really trusting the club...

Why then doesn't all of Cyprus adopt an EU constitution and get over and done with it...Because why?...I think you know the answer...

[boomerang]

sleep tight Bananiot

[Viewpoint]

It is with great sadness that I have personally come to the conclusion that there is no possibility for the Cyprus problem to be solved along the lines of a so-called bi-zonal and bi-communal federation and on the basis of a political equality partnership deal between the GC and the TC communities. The reason for this is due to the fact that the two communities are largely incompatible to each other, and there is absolutely no relationship between their ideological orientations and world view!

The vast majority of the members of the TC community are literally brainwashed and fully subscribe to the kemalist ideology, a totalitarian nationalist ideology based on the “ideas” and “doctrines” of a dictator that died some decades ago, and which in particular is completely intolerable to anyone non-Turkish in terms of ethnic consciousness! I have reached to the conclusion that it is impossible for the TC community to abandon this ideology, and therefore there is no meaning in having any partnership relationship with them, as it is doomed to eventually fail, with all the unpleasant consequences that will emerge due to the dissolution and abandonment of the RoC in favor of such a “virgin-birth” uncertain new state of affairs!

It is impossible for the GC community to consider any of its members living under the authority of a state subscribing to such an ideology, centered around the principles of the father of the Turks (Ataturk,) and therefore there is also no meaning in having any partnership agreement with them; if this will give them the ownership of as much as 30% of the area and 50% of the coastlines of Cyprus (a proportion of the country they do not historically and /or demographically legitimately own,) plus sharing with them the international sovereignty, status and personality of the whole of Cyprus (central government!)

It is with great sadness that I have personally come to the conclusion that only two options are left for us (GCs) to consider! The first is that the Cyprus problem will have to unfortunately be solved via a new bloodshed at some stage in the future! The second one is to negotiate partition on the basis of historical and demographic rights and considerations -at worst for the GCs on the basis of an 80:20 split! Unfortunately there is no other way out, and therefore we GCs have to be prepared for any of the only two options!

Truly sad, for I was always in favor of a one united Cyprus –even under a federal roof, a home for all the Greek and Turkish Cypriots that would be able to live harmoniously among themselves and with all their cultural rights and ethnic dignity fully respected and observed, as equal citizens to each other! Unfortunately, the TC community (the vast majority of it) -due to its outdated kemalist ideological orientation, is invalid for such a sharing and cohabitation with any other community!

eh Gunaydın = Good Morning...reality.

For whatever reason you have now arrived at a point I arrived at just after the AP which the GCs rejected and did not have the courtesy to produce another plan for BBF which even today they claim to want, people are not stupid even though your leaders make the right sounds the result is insincerity and a mocking of the international community who are pissed off with the Cyprus problem.

Bloodshed will lead to heavy losses on both sides but the GCs will make a grave mistkae just like 1974 and loose what they accumalated.

The only real option available is agreed partition, as the chasm is to wide and unbridgeable..the sooner we agree partition the better as the UN and EU will gradually pursue this method in the face of intrangience displayed by the GCs to solving the problem.

[Kifeas]

I can't really subscribe to your line of thought Kikapu, however noble it sounds. I sincerely wish it was possible to do exactly as you say but I know as well as you do that this is Middle East and here things are done differently, for reasons which are very real. I will not dwell on historical facts that have shaped the way we see each other. We have done this on so many occasions. I will stick to the bear necessities and try to be practical. Here is an example: The solution we all want needs to be accepted by both communities. The Turkish Cypriot community will only accept a solution that preserves the right of Turkey for intervention. I do not like this but here you are. This is a fact. How do we go about solving this matter? Can we the Greek Cypriot community agree to this demand? On the other hand, can we allow this discrepancy, let's say, sink our hopes for solution?

I have given this example just to show the deep mistrust that exists that goes back for centuries. I think there is only one way to get over this. Accept a solution that will not be the ideal one. Introduce safeguards that may be complex but which will allow the two communities to co exist peacefully for some decades. The generation that has lived though the dark years will slowly go and the new generations that will come up will be free from the prejudices that are running riot all over us. Perhaps after 50 or even more years of peaceful and prosperous co existence within the EU we could agree for modifications that will allow for a better and fairer for all system of governance.

P.S. I have no doubt you would reject bloodshed Kikapu.

Bananiot, fortunately (unfortunately for you I suppose) the vast majority of the GC community neither shares your reasoning, nor your ideas, as to what kind of a solution we should accept! It is your right to accept and follow a defeatist and self-whipping approach, however, thanks god the majority of the GC community does not! We do not accept the "logic" that an independed, sovereign and EU member Cyprus should be the subject of unilateral intervention rights by anyone other country, neither do we accept that the 30% (I say 50% because that is the amount of coastline -and what is Cyprus without its coastlines?) will have to pass to the ownership of the TC community and the Turkish nation alone, to be institutionally governed by the chauvinist "principles" of the father of Turkish nationalism (Ataturk!) If you so much like this idea, you are free to go and live in Turkey or under the Turkish occupation in the north, just like Fanos Droushiotis (Fanourio) does!

[Viewpoint]

I can't really subscribe to your line of thought Kikapu, however noble it sounds. I sincerely wish it was possible to do exactly as you say but I know as well as you do that this is Middle East and here things are done differently, for reasons which are very real. I will not dwell on historical facts that have shaped the way we see each other. We have done this on so many occasions. I will stick to the bear necessities and try to be practical. Here is an example: The solution we all want needs to be accepted by both communities. The Turkish Cypriot community will only accept a solution that preserves the right of Turkey for intervention. I do not like this but here you are. This is a fact. How do we go about solving this matter? Can we the Greek Cypriot community agree to this demand? On the other hand, can we allow this discrepancy, let's say, sink our hopes for solution?

I have given this example just to show the deep mistrust that exists that goes back for centuries. I think there is only one way to get over this. Accept a solution that will not be the ideal one. Introduce safeguards that may be complex but which will allow the two communities to co exist peacefully for some decades. The generation that has lived though the dark years will slowly go and the new generations that will come up will be free from the prejudices that are running riot all over us. Perhaps after 50 or even more years of peaceful and prosperous co existence within the EU we could agree for modifications that will allow for a better and fairer for all system of governance.

P.S. I have no doubt you would reject bloodshed Kikapu.

Bananiot, fortunately (unfortunately for you I suppose) the vast majority of the GC community neither shares your reasoning nor your ideas as to what kind of a solution we should accept! It is your right to accept a defeatist approach, however, thanks god the majority of the GC community does not! We do not accept the "logic" that an independed, sovereign and EU member Cyprus should be the subject of unilateral intervention rights by anyone other country, neither do we accept that the 30% (I say 50% because that is the amount of coastline -and what is Cyprus without its coastlines?) will have to pass to the ownership of the TC community and the Turkish nation alone, to be institutionally governed by the chauvinist "principles" of the father of Turkish nationalism (Ataturk!) If you so much like this idea, you are free to go and live in Turkey or under the Turkish occupation in the north, just like Fanos Droushiotis (Fanourio) does!

So its obvious you support bloodshed.

Those gym and shooting lessons much be paying off, do you feel like the next Rambo?