Cyprus-Forum.com

[phoenix]

Turkish Cypriots do not have to integrate becaue they already are Cypriots, Phoenix. I find this insistence on them integrating a little puzzling.

On the other hand they must let go of this paradigm that has been imposed on them- namely that Greek Cypriots will swallow them up and they will disappear unless protected by some special status case set up. They also have to proclaim their Cypriotness. They left this a little too late, hopefully they can still do it and tell the settlers and Turkey that they are Cypriots.

Well it's a little late now, I know . . . bit like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted.

But if the TCs had integrated effectively, then none of this mess would have arisen.

The root cause in my opinion was in establishing TWO official languages. That just accentuated differences between the two communities forever segregating them as two "racial" types.

I abhor segregation of any kind which is why I don't like the current set-up nor any future plans that would perpetuate segregation.

Integrated into becoming a Greek island or integrate into a 6ft deep grave, your posts are getting more and more ridiculous, you obviously subscribe to the Cyprus is a Greek island camp and all I can say is thank god we are divided so that fanatics like you never get to control my communities future.

VP are you really blind? Do you just sit in front of the screen touch typing all the same words regardless of the message?

Cyprus is a Greek speaking country . . . just as the US is an English speaking country. Is the US governed by England?

Your nightmares about graves are the guilt you feel for the numbers of the world's population you have massacred. Stop reminding me of all your atrocities.

And VP . . . I'd rather be a fanatic than a fascist like you, who wants to segregate people according to "race" and ignore the Democratic will of majorities.

[phoenix]

Turkish Cypriots do not have to integrate becaue they already are Cypriots, Phoenix. I find this insistence on them integrating a little puzzling.

On the other hand they must let go of this paradigm that has been imposed on them- namely that Greek Cypriots will swallow them up and they will disappear unless protected by some special status case set up. They also have to proclaim their Cypriotness. They left this a little too late, hopefully they can still do it and tell the settlers and Turkey that they are Cypriots.

Well it's a little late now, I know . . . bit like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted.

But if the TCs had integrated effectively, then none of this mess would have arisen.

The root cause in my opinion was in establishing TWO official languages. That just accentuated differences between the two communities forever segregating them as two "racial" types.

I abhor segregation of any kind which is why I don't like the current set-up nor any future plans that would perpetuate segregation.

Judging by your comments,the only proper integration of TC's should have been six foot under...

Iceman . . . comments like that don't help because you are attributing your scaremongering assumptions to prevent what is an acceptable way of two communities living together.

Why are you so afraid of integration . . . why be "racist" and keep us divided because we are "different"?

Sorry to jump in Phoenix mou, but since when is keping ones identity is racist? Please explain as I am dying to know?

Deniz your playing re-arrange phoenix's lovely sentences to distort the meaning, because you are thinking "I am TC living in UK, having integrated there effectively, but still retaining my identity, but I don't want TCs in Cyprus to integrate with GCs, because in Cyprus we are Turks and they are Greeks and those are the TWO Official languages, and I will always remember we are different and not for integrating at all."

[phoenix]

Phoenix, you are oozing with racism. Please just reconsider what you are saying. In effect, you are calling upon Turkey to stay forever in Cyprus in order to prevent the integration of the Turkish Cypriots into a Greek speaking, unified Cyprus, in the way you perceive things.

Please quote me where I have been racist and I will qualify that, but do not project your divisory logistics onto me because Turkey wants to have my country governed HER way . . . by fascism.

So you are saying: Capitulate to the demands of Turkey. Keep Cyprus divided, unless Turkey gets things her way. There's a word for people that do that . . . . . . . coincidently begins with "T".

You did not like my German/Italian example - did you know that there were German and Italian soldiers fighting alongside the Greek resistant fighters and also within the Red Army? - so, let me put it differently. Would you call a President (or a general) who means well, but his policies (tactics) result in the opposite result of the desired one, a traitor? Would you shoot the general? Would the President face a court for making the wrong decisions and in effect condemning his country?

I didn't mind your example . . . it's just that it was flawed!

You used it as an example of "traitors" when those Germans were fighting against the Nazis that took over their country. They were also liberators alongside the allies against Nazis not Germany. Therefore NOT valid, as you are suggesting, as good reason to allow Turkey to control our country and still view anyone that assists that process, as a hero.

P.S. If you read Greek history, at least the way it is presented to school pupils and students, you will be surprised to find out that all our misfortunes are blamed on traitors. This is a culture that has been cultivated for centuries and Greeks are always on the look out for traitors. No where in our history you will read that we lost a battle because we were incompetent or because we made mistakes or worse still, because the other side were better or braver. I would call on everyone to attempt to read a book with a different prospective on the recent Greek history. There are many such books now but the one that stands in my mind at the moment is a book by the late Vasilis Rafaelides called "Modern history - tragic and comic - of Greece". It makes excellent reading and it is quite amusing too.

Well we've gone full circle. My Greek History was acquired from the UK where they go to great pains to minimise the positives of Greek influence and maximise every other Nation's atrocities to make themselves proud to be called "Great" Britain.

[denizaksulu]

Turkish Cypriots do not have to integrate becaue they already are Cypriots, Phoenix. I find this insistence on them integrating a little puzzling.

On the other hand they must let go of this paradigm that has been imposed on them- namely that Greek Cypriots will swallow them up and they will disappear unless protected by some special status case set up. They also have to proclaim their Cypriotness. They left this a little too late, hopefully they can still do it and tell the settlers and Turkey that they are Cypriots.

Well it's a little late now, I know . . . bit like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted.

But if the TCs had integrated effectively, then none of this mess would have arisen.

The root cause in my opinion was in establishing TWO official languages. That just accentuated differences between the two communities forever segregating them as two "racial" types.

I abhor segregation of any kind which is why I don't like the current set-up nor any future plans that would perpetuate segregation.

Judging by your comments,the only proper integration of TC's should have been six foot under...

Iceman . . . comments like that don't help because you are attributing your scaremongering assumptions to prevent what is an acceptable way of two communities living together.

Why are you so afraid of integration . . . why be "racist" and keep us divided because we are "different"?

Sorry to jump in Phoenix mou, but since when is keping ones identity is racist? Please explain as I am dying to know?

Deniz your playing re-arrange phoenix's lovely sentences to distort the meaning, because you are thinking "I am TC living in UK, having integrated there effectively, but still retaining my identity, but I don't want TCs in Cyprus to integrate with GCs, because in Cyprus we are Turks and they are Greeks and those are the TWO Official languages, and I will always remember we are different and not for integrating at all."

[Viewpoint]

Turkish Cypriots do not have to integrate becaue they already are Cypriots, Phoenix. I find this insistence on them integrating a little puzzling.

On the other hand they must let go of this paradigm that has been imposed on them- namely that Greek Cypriots will swallow them up and they will disappear unless protected by some special status case set up. They also have to proclaim their Cypriotness. They left this a little too late, hopefully they can still do it and tell the settlers and Turkey that they are Cypriots.

Well it's a little late now, I know . . . bit like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted.

But if the TCs had integrated effectively, then none of this mess would have arisen.

The root cause in my opinion was in establishing TWO official languages. That just accentuated differences between the two communities forever segregating them as two "racial" types.

I abhor segregation of any kind which is why I don't like the current set-up nor any future plans that would perpetuate segregation.

Integrated into becoming a Greek island or integrate into a 6ft deep grave, your posts are getting more and more ridiculous, you obviously subscribe to the Cyprus is a Greek island camp and all I can say is thank god we are divided so that fanatics like you never get to control my communities future.

VP are you really blind? Do you just sit in front of the screen touch typing all the same words regardless of the message?

Cyprus is a Greek speaking country . . . just as the US is an English speaking country. Is the US governed by England?

Your nightmares about graves are the guilt you feel for the numbers of the world's population you have massacred. Stop reminding me of all your atrocities.

And VP . . . I'd rather be a fanatic than a fascist like you, who wants to segregate people according to "race" and ignore the Democratic will of majorities.

The true face of GCs, even though they have 2 official languages in their consititution people like this claim Cyprus is Greek speaking country, ....viva la TRNC.

[Nikitas]

Viewpoint,

You are taking the views of one person and attach them to a whole community. Phoenix is entitled to her point of view, but it is more than doubtful if all Cypriots on this forum, let alone in the whole of Cyprus, would agree with her.

[phoenix]

Turkish Cypriots do not have to integrate becaue they already are Cypriots, Phoenix. I find this insistence on them integrating a little puzzling.

On the other hand they must let go of this paradigm that has been imposed on them- namely that Greek Cypriots will swallow them up and they will disappear unless protected by some special status case set up. They also have to proclaim their Cypriotness. They left this a little too late, hopefully they can still do it and tell the settlers and Turkey that they are Cypriots.

Well it's a little late now, I know . . . bit like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted.

But if the TCs had integrated effectively, then none of this mess would have arisen.

The root cause in my opinion was in establishing TWO official languages. That just accentuated differences between the two communities forever segregating them as two "racial" types.

I abhor segregation of any kind which is why I don't like the current set-up nor any future plans that would perpetuate segregation.

Integrated into becoming a Greek island or integrate into a 6ft deep grave, your posts are getting more and more ridiculous, you obviously subscribe to the Cyprus is a Greek island camp and all I can say is thank god we are divided so that fanatics like you never get to control my communities future.

VP are you really blind? Do you just sit in front of the screen touch typing all the same words regardless of the message?

Cyprus is a Greek speaking country . . . just as the US is an English speaking country. Is the US governed by England?

Your nightmares about graves are the guilt you feel for the numbers of the world's population you have massacred. Stop reminding me of all your atrocities.

And VP . . . I'd rather be a fanatic than a fascist like you, who wants to segregate people according to "race" and ignore the Democratic will of majorities.

The true face of GCs, even though they have 2 official languages in their consititution people like this claim Cyprus is Greek speaking country, ....viva la TRNC.

You speak English VP . . . does England govern you!

Greek was spoken on Cyprus since before the Ottomans/Turks knew how to read and write!

Well what is the OFFICIAL language in "TRNC" then, now it is ruled by Turkey?

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint,

You are taking the views of one person and attach them to a whole community. Phoenix is entitled to her point of view, but it is more than doubtful if all Cypriots on this forum, let alone in the whole of Cyprus, would agree with her.

I truly believe she speaks up for the majority of GCs who do not air their true views, why do you not challenge her if you disagree, you keeping silent only backs up her arguments.

[Nikitas]

Viewpoint,

I have posted a couple of comments about her views on language. I find the thought that TCs should be forced to speak Greek insulting. I said so.

Language in a multi lingual society is a problem. I should say was a problem. Now we have all kinds of technical means to solve this problem, like automatic electronic translations etc. In addition I stick by my proposal that all of us should be taught to understand, not speak, the other language. Learning to undestand is easier, faster and offers more advantages for harmony in a multi lingual society. From a personal point of view I would like to be able to read and understand the Turkish Cypriot press, books, radio and TV news.

I do not understand Phoenix's point in insisting that all citizens of Cyprus should speak Greek or that TCs should integrate. Like I said above TCs are Cypriots and to illustrate the point I mentioned the case of a mainland Greek coming to live in Cyprus, he would need "Integration lessons" not any TC who already is part of the island culture.

[phoenix]

Viewpoint,

I have posted a couple of comments about her views on language. I find the thought that TCs should be forced to speak Greek insulting. I said so.

Language in a multi lingual society is a problem. I should say was a problem. Now we have all kinds of technical means to solve this problem, like automatic electronic translations etc. In addition I stick by my proposal that all of us should be taught to understand, not speak, the other language. Learning to undestand is easier, faster and offers more advantages for harmony in a multi lingual society. From a personal point of view I would like to be able to read and understand the Turkish Cypriot press, books, radio and TV news.

I do not understand Phoenix's point in insisting that all citizens of Cyprus should speak Greek or that TCs should integrate. Like I said above TCs are Cypriots and to illustrate the point I mentioned the case of a mainland Greek coming to live in Cyprus, he would need "Integration lessons" not any TC who already is part of the island culture.

That's because I NEVER said that Nikitas.

Kindly do not misquote just because you have been railroaded by VP.

I re-iterate. There should be ONE OFFICIAL language. People are free to speak as many and whichever languages they choose. But we do not need TWO OFFICIAL languages in a country the size of Cyprus.

The alternative to integration is segregation.

Is that what you understand and want for Cyprus? .... because then you are in agreement with VP, Nikitas.