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For Bananiot- Annan's maps

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Viewpoint » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:40 am

Get Real! wrote:
Bananiot wrote:How does anyone integrade into the Cypriot culture and way of life, one may wonder. Cyprus is a bicommunal country and nice sounding slogans will not save the day. Each community needs to respect the other one and of course we need to respect our differences above all. We have not done this and this explains our predicament. We are to blame, primarily and the sooner we stop blaming the foreigners the sooner we might begin to see light.

Are you willing Phoenix to accept our Turkish Cypriot brothers and sisters as a politically equal community?

The answers to the problems you raise lie in the application of democracy.

Under democracy there is no such thing as political communities, political equalities, percentage ratios of power, or any other racist rubbish. Under democracy there is one vote per person and petty diversities such as sexual preference, religion, ethnic backgrounds, and the like do not form part of the political nucleus.

Democracy is the future for Cyprus as it is the fairest governing method for all and it also breaks the backbone of Cyprus’ enemies who are looking for the slightest excuse to carve up the country into kingdoms reluctant to follow the rule of law.

Our biggest mistake is to communize this country for it only serves the diabolical 'divide and rule' scheme of external powers.


So if this majority vote to give Cyprus to Greece, will that be OK? isn't it a dejavu situation? you have obviously learned nothing from the past and will drag us towards another catastrophe.
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:45 am

Nikitas wrote:Turkish Cypriots do not have to integrate becaue they already are Cypriots, Phoenix. I find this insistence on them integrating a little puzzling.

On the other hand they must let go of this paradigm that has been imposed on them- namely that Greek Cypriots will swallow them up and they will disappear unless protected by some special status case set up. They also have to proclaim their Cypriotness. They left this a little too late, hopefully they can still do it and tell the settlers and Turkey that they are Cypriots.


This we are all Cypriots spin is wearing thin and is very transparent as to achieving your goal of GC domination of the whole island. How will all these Cypriots ensure that Cyprus will not be given to Greece or the majority of Cypriots do not vote to stop trade with Turkey?? how will you achieve this under a we are all Cypriots ideology? Are you really thinking this through and how a TC would feel out numbered 4 to 1 with no hope of opposing or defending their rights? which have been abused in the past by the ho so democratic and human rights abiding GCs?
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:48 am

phoenix wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Turkish Cypriots do not have to integrate becaue they already are Cypriots, Phoenix. I find this insistence on them integrating a little puzzling.

On the other hand they must let go of this paradigm that has been imposed on them- namely that Greek Cypriots will swallow them up and they will disappear unless protected by some special status case set up. They also have to proclaim their Cypriotness. They left this a little too late, hopefully they can still do it and tell the settlers and Turkey that they are Cypriots.


Well it's a little late now, I know . . . bit like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted. :roll:

But if the TCs had integrated effectively, then none of this mess would have arisen.

The root cause in my opinion was in establishing TWO official languages. That just accentuated differences between the two communities forever segregating them as two "racial" types.

I abhor segregation of any kind which is why I don't like the current set-up nor any future plans that would perpetuate segregation.


Integrated into becoming a Greek island or integrate into a 6ft deep grave, your posts are getting more and more ridiculous, you obviously subscribe to the Cyprus is a Greek island camp and all I can say is thank god we are divided so that fanatics like you never get to control my communities future.
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:50 am

humanist wrote:I thought VP is Greek :) :) :) :) ;)


Ill take that as a compliment. :wink:
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Postby Bananiot » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:16 am

Great GR, you have finally discovered tashinopitta. Democracy is the answer to all our ailments! As simple as that. Two and two make four! How long will it take you to discover that democracy comes in different colours and shades I just wonder. Pity the world is a complex place and things do not always work in a way the simple mind can comprehend.

Phoenix, you are oozing with racism. Please just reconsider what you are saying. In effect, you are calling upon Turkey to stay forever in Cyprus in order to prevent the integration of the Turkish Cypriots into a Greek speaking, unified Cyprus, in the way you perceive things.

You did not like my German/Italian example - did you know that there were German and Italian soldiers fighting alongside the Greek resistant fighters and also within the Red Army? - so, let me put it differently. Would you call a President (or a general) who means well, but his policies (tactics) result in the opposite result of the desired one, a traitor? Would you shoot the general? Would the President face a court for making the wrong decisions and in effect condemning his country?

P.S. If you read Greek history, at least the way it is presented to school pupils and students, you will be surprised to find out that all our misfortunes are blamed on traitors. This is a culture that has been cultivated for centuries and Greeks are always on the look out for traitors. No where in our history you will read that we lost a battle because we were incompetent or because we made mistakes or worse still, because the other side were better or braver. I would call on everyone to attempt to read a book with a different prospective on the recent Greek history. There are many such books now but the one that stands in my mind at the moment is a book by the late Vasilis Rafaelides called "Modern history - tragic and comic - of Greece". It makes excellent reading and it is quite amusing too.
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:02 am

humanist wrote:I thought VP is Greek :) :) :) :) ;)



............and I thought Bananiot was GC :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby halil » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:09 am

What if the Greek Cypriots had voted in favor of the Annan plan in the 2004 referendum?
1. The bi-zonal, bi-communal “United Cyprus Republic” would have been officially declared and internationally recognized.

2. In June 13, 2004, the members of the federal parliament, senators representing the people and the members of the European Parliament from both founding states would have been elected.

3. The federal parliament would be formed.

4. Four Greek Cypriots and two Turkish Cypriots with full voting rights, together with two Greek Cypriots and one Turkish Cypriot without voting rights, would form the federal presidential council.

5. The president of the “United Cyprus Republic” would be the Greek Cypriot member of the presidential cabinet until June 2, 2008, the last day of the fifth alternation period, comprising 300 days each. Alternatively, in each odd-numbered period, a Greek Cypriot member of the presidential cabinet would become president and a Turkish Cypriot would take the post in each even-numbered period.

6. The disposition of immovable property would have already been started, and the Turkish Cypriot founding state would have handed over at least 25 villages to the Greek Cypriot founding state in the areas agreed and defined in the Annan plan.

7. Some 25,000 Greek Cypriots would have vacated their pre-1974-owned condominiums and the progressive return of a further 60,000 Greek Cypriots choosing to live in the territories of the Turkish Cypriot founding state would be completed. A total of 85,000 Greek Cypriots would now be residing in the north.

8. Turkish visitors from Turkey would need an EU entry visa to visit Cyprus.

9. Some 36,500 Turkish troops would already have left the island according to the “Progressive Return Plan” as defined in the plan, and the remaining troops would need permission to leave from the UN.

10. The Greek Cypriot pre-1974 land owners would have regained possession of one-third of their lands before the end of 2008.

11. The Greek Cypriot pre-1974 land owners would start receiving monetary compensation for the remaining two-thirds of their lands at the beginning of 2009.

12. An “autonomous Greek Cypriot region” consisting of four villages on the Karpaz Peninsula would already be established and all the pre-1974 residents of these villages and their descendants would be living there under their own rule.

13. Demilitarization of both founding states would be completed and the local armed forces of both states, the Greek National Guards and Turkish Armed Forces (TSK), would be demobilized.

14. Some 12,000 Turkish Cypriot civil servants would lose their jobs due to the adaptation of EU rules and regulations.

15. Greek Cypriot bureaucrats would be occupying all the higher offices in the government structure of the United Cyprus Republic, until the necessary training of the Turkish Cypriots was fully completed, taking a minimum of four years.

16. The most important offices in civil aviation, airports, the central bank, land registry, telecommunications, customs, immigration, coast guard and maritime would be administered by the federal government, in which almost 90 percent of the high level bureaucrats would be Greek Cypriots.

These are only some of the benefits the Greek Cypriots would have received if they had voted “Yes” on the referendum. Unfortunately the 1796 “Megalo Idea” of the Hellenic world caused Papadopoulos to dream of establishing a “Unitary Greek State” in Cyprus since 1960 and accordingly led him to reject all proposals paving the way to a sustainable peace in Cyprus.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/yazar ... rno=128986
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Postby phoenix » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:08 am

iceman wrote:
phoenix wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Turkish Cypriots do not have to integrate becaue they already are Cypriots, Phoenix. I find this insistence on them integrating a little puzzling.

On the other hand they must let go of this paradigm that has been imposed on them- namely that Greek Cypriots will swallow them up and they will disappear unless protected by some special status case set up. They also have to proclaim their Cypriotness. They left this a little too late, hopefully they can still do it and tell the settlers and Turkey that they are Cypriots.


Well it's a little late now, I know . . . bit like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted. :roll:

But if the TCs had integrated effectively, then none of this mess would have arisen.

The root cause in my opinion was in establishing TWO official languages. That just accentuated differences between the two communities forever segregating them as two "racial" types.

I abhor segregation of any kind which is why I don't like the current set-up nor any future plans that would perpetuate segregation.


Judging by your comments,the only proper integration of TC's should have been six foot under... :lol: :lol: :lol:


Iceman . . . comments like that don't help because you are attributing your scaremongering assumptions to prevent what is an acceptable way of two communities living together.

Why are you so afraid of integration . . . why be "racist" and keep us divided because we are "different"?
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:13 am

phoenix wrote:
iceman wrote:
phoenix wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Turkish Cypriots do not have to integrate becaue they already are Cypriots, Phoenix. I find this insistence on them integrating a little puzzling.

On the other hand they must let go of this paradigm that has been imposed on them- namely that Greek Cypriots will swallow them up and they will disappear unless protected by some special status case set up. They also have to proclaim their Cypriotness. They left this a little too late, hopefully they can still do it and tell the settlers and Turkey that they are Cypriots.


Well it's a little late now, I know . . . bit like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted. :roll:

But if the TCs had integrated effectively, then none of this mess would have arisen.

The root cause in my opinion was in establishing TWO official languages. That just accentuated differences between the two communities forever segregating them as two "racial" types.

I abhor segregation of any kind which is why I don't like the current set-up nor any future plans that would perpetuate segregation.


Judging by your comments,the only proper integration of TC's should have been six foot under... :lol: :lol: :lol:


Iceman . . . comments like that don't help because you are attributing your scaremongering assumptions to prevent what is an acceptable way of two communities living together.

Why are you so afraid of integration . . . why be "racist" and keep us divided because we are "different"?



Sorry to jump in Phoenix mou, but since when is keping ones identity is racist? Please explain as I am dying to know?
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Postby phoenix » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:15 am

Nikitas wrote:Phoenix, the Swiss have three official languages and they are one of the most patriotic, often irrationally so, people on earth.

We could have overcome the language problem by teaching COMPREHENSION (as opposed to speaking) each other's language at school. This has been done on several occasions, the one that impresses me the most is the Concorde plane project, where engineers were taught to understand but not speak the other's language.

Asking a Turkish Cypriot to speak Greek in his everyday dealings back in the 60s would have been an insult. I am surprised you cannot see this.

In terms of integration, I ask myself this: who needs most to have familiarisation lessons to live in the south, your average TC or a Greek mainlander? For me the answer is obvious and that deals with the integration question.


The difference there Nikitas is that the three languages do not serve to separate the people into different "cultures / race" as the Greek / Turkish languages did on Cyprus. Reason being because of the vastly different religions associated with each and the fact that the Turks were recent invaders who forced their language etc upon us. If we were to negate that and start afresh then perpetuation of Turkish as an OFFICIAL language was always going to prevent fusion of the two cultures.

Of course no one was going to be forced to speak ONE language over the other . . . I am talking about OFFICIAL languages in government.
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