Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

People said they rejected plan because they didn't like the fact not every single GC refugee could return home and that the majority who could would have to wait several years before doing so. The plan actually allowed for the majority of refugees to return,and because of a huge territory swap in the GCs favour, most of those returnees would be under a GC administration.They also didn't like that Turkish troops would remain on the island "Indefinitely". This wasn't as radical as it sounded. The final version of the plan was simply a reiteration of the agreement made at independance in 1960 which allowed 650 Turkish troops and 950 Greek troops to be permanently based on the island.......................The plan actually made provisions for a giood portion of the Turkish settlers to return to Turkey, and it strictly controlled further Turkish immigration...............The largest sacrifice in the plan would have been made by the Turkish Cypriots: In order to allow the GCs to reclaim their properties a third of them would have to move from their homes.....




From the book "Kings of Peace. Pawns of War" by Harriet Martin.


From which we can see the liars on this forum as well. [/code]

[Nikitas]

Harriet Martin did not read the Annan plan and she did not listen to how Pap persuaded the people to vote No.

The return of Greek Cypriots was in stages, some lasting months, some lasting years. The same goes for troop reductions. What she did not see is that ALL provisions for TCs had immediate effect and that most of the provisions for GCs were left at Turkey's discretion. The GC side had requested that lands to be returned should pass to UN control, still under TC administration but with UN forces and not Turkish ones, till the final return. Turkey's refusal to allow this set off the alarms in everyone's minds.

This is what Ms Martin failed to understand and this is how Pap persuaded people. Hannay should have foreseen this and make the proper provisions. But he believed that "piece of cake" tale they told him and then told a tall story to Ms Martin to cover his blunder.

[Nikitas]

Zan,

I have not read the book. As a matter of interest, does Ms Martin say how many of the 9000 pages were devoted to the regime of the British Sovereign Base Areas?

[zan]

Harriet Martin did not read the Annan plan and she did not listen to how Pap persuaded the people to vote No.

The return of Greek Cypriots was in stages, some lasting months, some lasting years. The same goes for troop reductions. What she did not see is that ALL provisions for TCs had immediate effect and that most of the provisions for GCs were left at Turkey's discretion. The GC side had requested that lands to be returned should pass to UN control, still under TC administration but with UN forces and not Turkish ones, till the final return. Turkey's refusal to allow this set off the alarms in everyone's minds.

This is what Ms Martin failed to understand and this is how Pap persuaded people. Hannay should have foreseen this and make the proper provisions. But he believed that "piece of cake" tale they told him and then told a tall story to Ms Martin to cover his blunder.

She interviewed De Soto and got it from the horses mouth and we are to believe what you say.....Give us a break.....You guys are lying through your teeth and you show that by telling us that you know she did not read the Annan Plan.....How the hell do you know what she read.....Lies lies lies.....

[iceman]

Harriet Martin did not read the Annan plan and she did not listen to how Pap persuaded the people to vote No.

The return of Greek Cypriots was in stages, some lasting months, some lasting years. The same goes for troop reductions. What she did not see is that ALL provisions for TCs had immediate effect and that most of the provisions for GCs were left at Turkey's discretion. The GC side had requested that lands to be returned should pass to UN control, still under TC administration but with UN forces and not Turkish ones, till the final return. Turkey's refusal to allow this set off the alarms in everyone's minds.

This is what Ms Martin failed to understand and this is how Pap persuaded people. Hannay should have foreseen this and make the proper provisions. But he believed that "piece of cake" tale they told him and then told a tall story to Ms Martin to cover his blunder.

What i fail do understand is,if the plan was so clearly against the interest GC people,why did he need to shed those crocodile tears??

[Nikitas]

I am an observer of events, not a psychiatrist. His emotional outpouring was over something you might hard to understand, his lifelong concern for the survival of the Greek Cypriot community on the island.

So Ms Martin interviewd De Soto, who obviously presented the plan the way he perceived it. I heard him on radio and TV interviews and he never mentioned a thing about the time frames for the return of refugees. Presumably he presented the plan to Martin in the same light.

Now about this lies accusation Zan. The plan's time frames are there, set in black and white. In the maps annexed to the plan you can see the zones in different colors, time phases from 6 months to 3 years. Troop withdrawals in a similar pattern. So where is the lie?

How much effort would it have taken to hand over the areas to UN military control but still under TC adminisration? And why the insistence on detailed plans to guarantee Turkish military superiority on the island during the withdrawal phase? That is what stopped me. The one detail I caught that did not sit right with the image of an army withdrawing.

[Nikitas]

An interesting side note. The creator of the Annan plan Lord Hannay is English. Under English land law there can be no such thing as an agreement to enter into a conveyance of land. You either have a conveyanc or you have nothing. But that is precisely what he was asking the GCs to accept in the return of the areas in the Annan plan, an agreement to have the lands returned in the future, in the meantime the GCs would have paid the full price, not a deposit. Srange way of thinking for an English diplomat.

[zan]

I am an observer of events, not a psychiatrist. His emotional outpouring was over something you might hard to understand, his lifelong concern for the survival of the Greek Cypriot community on the island.

So Ms Martin interviewd De Soto, who obviously presented the plan the way he perceived it. I heard him on radio and TV interviews and he never mentioned a thing about the time frames for the return of refugees. Presumably he presented the plan to Martin in the same light.

Now about this lies accusation Zan. The plan's time frames are there, set in black and white. In the maps annexed to the plan you can see the zones in different colors, time phases from 6 months to 3 years. Troop withdrawals in a similar pattern. So where is the lie?

How much effort would it have taken to hand over the areas to UN military control but still under TC adminisration? And why the insistence on detailed plans to guarantee Turkish military superiority on the island during the withdrawal phase? That is what stopped me. The one detail I caught that did not sit right with the image of an army withdrawing.

You are still [playing with words and are backing away from your opening statement of knowing that she did not read the Anna Plan...That is the proof of your lies and the distortion of the Annan Plan...The time scale is mentioned clearly in that the MAJORITY would return instantly but you make it seem like the majority would not....You want us to believe that a full scale swap over could happen without any problems at the drop of a hat.....Stop playing with numbers....The only thing left to us at the end of an agreed Annan Plan would have been political equality and that is why Tpap shed his crocodile tears iceman....He could not cry for any other reason but the fact that we might actually get something out of this.....The plan he has for Cyprus is clear and that is union with Greece and nothing else will do...He convince the Gcs that Turkey would be a threat but neglected to tell them that there would only be less than 800 of them on the island. The oonly security risk would have been to us but as Turkey would have kept her guarantor powers then it would have made it harder for the "RoC" to take away the little power we would have been left with...

[Get Real!]

I’m not even going to waste my breath to point out the MYRIAD of injustices the AP had in store for the GC people and instead will simply ask everyone this…

Hands up those of you who believe that Turkey would honor her signatures for an incredibly complex plan that was designed to span for a period of TWENTY odd years before completion and especially in light of the fact that Turkey could not even honor her simple ports agreement with the RoC during a tense period when she was trying to “impress” the EU for membership?

So are we, the Greek Cypriots, impressed by Turkey’s cooperation and word of honor thus far?

HELL NO!

I rest my case.

[Nikitas]

Read the troop reduction schedules carefully. The troop levels wer reduced gradually till they got to 800 in years.

The maps of the Annan plan, I can get them for you tomorrow if you like, they are in my office computer, show the zones and phases. The first phase is in the first 6 months, and it included varosha and some areas of Morphou. Then came the remaining zones in a year and it went like this till the final zones were returned in 3 years i memory serves.

The Turkish army would remain in each and every zone till the very last day.

The Turkish army insisted on retaining weapons superiority and went as far as specifying the type, numbers, and caliber of weapons each side would have. It retained vastly superior firepower till the last day.

Now this Enosis fixation you have has to be seen to. What makes you so sure that Greece wants Enosis, even if that is Pap's personal ambition? I live here for 33 years and I see no evidence that Greece wants to get involved with Cyprus ever again.