Cyprus-Forum.com

[Realist]

Sorry to say, but alot of Viewpoint's statements ring true. I haven't been on this forum for to long, but even though everyone seems to get along. There are still very serious differences in opinion. Living together sounds great, but if the people here in the forum (who sound like the more liberal minded of the popullation) fundamentally disagree then can you imagine everyone else on the island.

[Viewpoint]

Realist

Sorry to say, but alot of Viewpoint's statements ring true. I haven't been on this forum for to long, but even though everyone seems to get along. There are still very serious differences in opinion. Living together sounds great, but if the people here in the forum (who sound like the more liberal minded of the popullation) fundamentally disagree then can you imagine everyone else on the island.

At last a Realist, thankyou for your comments.

[BigDutch]

Perhaps those with half-empty glasses can explain why they even bother coming to a discussion forum about Cyprus Problem ?

I would have expected that Cypriots were mature enough to talk about sorting out the future ?

[Viewpoint]

BigDutch

Perhaps those with half-empty glasses can explain why they even bother coming to a discussion forum about Cyprus Problem ?

I would have expected that Cypriots were mature enough to talk about sorting out the future ?

If I am happy with my half empty glass and as long as its mine and I am left alone to enjoy it then isnt that a Viewpoint. In order to change my point of view then I have to be effected positively by the stance of the GC administration and people. Unfortunately for me this has been on the decline from day 1, as I read and listen to comments and try to understand the GC mentality towards us, it just pushes me further and further away.

Maybe coming onto this forum and reading the comments is a way of testing ones line of thought. If we consider contributors to this forum as open minded and intelligent then we should be very worried about a future together.

[Realist]

Again, I'm on the other side of the fence and yet I'm agreeing with Viewpoint.

I think at least he/she is being honest about the way they feel. That in itself is something to be respected.

I'm all for a solution, but there's no point in pretending certain realities do not exist for the sake of sounding politically correct. People come here to air views, the Cyprus problem isn't going to be solved here, even if all members agreed.

[cannedmoose]

Although I disagree with Viewpoint's stance, believing that a unified Cypriot state is possible (one day!), I can see merit in what VP is talking about. Ultimately, a two-state solution in Cyprus would not mean total separation and alienation... quite the contrary if both sides accepted it. It would, by the very nature of their closeness, encourage cross-border trade, tourism, investment etc. etc. etc. It would also remove all barriers to Cypriot investment in southern Turkey and vice-versa.

I know what VP suggests is unpalettable to some and undesirable to others (myself included), and would mean putting all of the emotions built up during the last 50 years aside, but it is a worthy point of debate and I personally appreciate VPs honesty in putting that point of view forward.

[Viewpoint]

cannedmoose & Realist I appreciate your honest and positive comments, at least you have had the courage to speak up and say that I have valid points and concerns in the current political climate in Cyprus.
I did not arrive at the partition decision easily but acknowledging that we Cypriots can argue about absoulutely anything, both sides have very valid arguements and these discussions can go on forever like they are destined to do. Doesnt a time arrive when we should all say enough is enough, at times our discussions are so irrelevent and stupid that any normal society would not even see those issues as obsticles. We depleated all reserves of trust in 1960 63 74 2004, and we cannot get it back, we have to come to terms with this and move on.
Thats why partition becomes even more attractive it would eliminate all these pointless negotiaitons to obtain a utopia that doesnt exist.
We should all get a reality check if we cant agree on anything in the last 30 years then we should conceed that it will never happen and that living as good neighbours is the solution we can all agree on and live with.
I believe we have already started this process, with the yes of the TCs it has shown to the world at least we are not the negative side and that we are a people with a voice, the positive momentum will gradually increase and develop.
Please think very seriously about partition, dont write it off right away give it some thought and post how you would see it working advantages and disadvantages????

[Saint Jimmy]

negotiations

This is the gist of our difference in opinion. As you correctly stated, both sides have valid points. Some of them cannot be resolved, but simply cut (using the 'Gordian knot' analogy). When they are, the people's natural knee-jerk reaction, I think, will not be 'Oh, that's unfair', but just acceptance and 'let's move on with our lives'. But even if there is a reaction about certain provisions of the agreed solution that we will have come to, it is highly unlikely (I'm only hesitant to say 'impossible' because I'm not a fortune-teller) that we will witness reactions similar to those of times past (63, 67, 74).
The mere fact that we are still in a negotiation process means that differing opinions will be voiced, and, as both sides have valid points (I like to refer to this as 'both sides are right'), outright agreement is not likely to come about. Effective agreement will only come when a solution is agreed by leaders, who, in turn, will pass it on to their people. This is what didn't happen with Annan V - the solution was NOT passed to GCs by their leaders, because the leaders themselves hadn't agreed to it.
It's not time to think about partition yet. In my opinion, we get one more chance. It is the last time, I think, and then it's over - we will either have solved it, or you'll be rubbing it in our faces ('see, I told you so'). This is because T-Pap knows what will most probably happen if he or anyone else blows the negotiations this time around, so he is not going to let go that easily, once they start. I think he's not looking to stall the solution process in depth of time, as people claim, till the last stages of Turkey's EU accession (15-20 years - that's absurd!). He's just being as careful as he can be, before negotiations start, so that when they start, they'll be the way he wants them to be - no timeline, no arbitration. No one has guaranteed these things to him, and that's why he's stalling.
This is how I interpret his stance.

P.S.: this must be my longest post to date. Sorry!

[Viewpoint]

Saint Jimmy TCs will vote it down what ever solution is reached Tcs will view this as being in favour of GCs so we must vote is down, I know the mentality of TCs and whats evolving now with Gc stance effects them negatively, they already mistrust GC intentions, if a solution is reached they will be against it and vote NO, in the hope it will bring recognition. They feel they tried the solution thing and were let down badly so any amended or new solution will not be accepted positively.

[erolz]

In my opinion, we get one more chance.

I agree that there is still time (and much will amonst 'ordinary' people) for 'one more chance' - which is why I think TP is doing and will do everything he can to block a new proposal being put to the 'people' - hence the insitance on no UN arbitration and no time limit an no requirment on GC to say what they actually want changed in the Annan plan.