Cyprus-Forum.com

[phoenix]

Hey! Phoenix...Have you still got that nob of butter in your mouth your mother put in when you were born...... I can't believe it still has not melted.....

Hey Zan, that reminds me of a trick one of my workmates played on me.
He introduced me to a new female officer on the ferry I was working on.
He said:-
"This is my mate Jerry, he's got a heart of gold (I felt embarrased)"
"He has a will of iron (I felt very proud)"

And


"a knob of butter"( she fell about laughing and I wished the ground would swallow me up)

Great! . . . how to put a girl off butter for life

[denizaksulu]

Interesting post Phoenx.

major Packard was interviewed by Greek Tv a while back and he stated (pretty much what is written above.

Goerge Ball was also on the same programme and he evaded questions pretty well. Another American former CIA chap, I do not recall his name offhand, insisted that there was intercommunal fighting between 1967 and 1974. Pressed by the interviewer he stuck to his guns about the time and the fighting. The undisputed fact is that the last fight had been the one in Kofinou and things got gradualy and steadily more peaceful between 1967 and 1974.

Deniz,

Note the time frame hre. In 1958 there was already a Turkish mainland involvement in Cyprus with senior army officers laying the groundwork for what was to follow. Now, cross reference this with Bir's account of his growing up in Cyprus and tell me what conclusion you come to.

Also note that there was no mainland Greek involvement on the ground at this time, probably because it would be embarassing if Greek army people were caught by the British. The TC side had nos such risk obviously, since the British extended a peculiar immunity to them. This dual treatment is a personal observation from when we moved to Famagusta, the TCs were never curfewed.

What I see in Bir's descriptions is a community held in the grip of the Turkish military, tightly controlled so that the separation could be maintained. All voices of dissent were silenced. Bir is writing about the 60s, I assume that pretty much the same control was exercised during the 50s and that it is still going on but in a more "delicate" manner.

I lived in Kophinou from 1956 till 1960. There were no Turkish Army officers there. We all knew who was the Mr. Big.

I can not comment on other areas. You might be right. BK makes no mention of Turkish Army officers in his village.

[Nikitas]

Deniz,

Comparing the attitude of the two organizations, EOKA and TMT, towards the "civilians" a picture emerges. EOKA never had the ability or the power to control the GCs the way TMT controlled the TCs.

There were general directions to the population, like the boycot of British goods, but never anything like a local Mr Big who had power over the daily lives ot the people. Perhaps EOKA was too busy with the British to evolve such a controlling force, perhaps it did not want to. There were assassinations of suspected collaborators and a few beatings, but there was no permanent presence of EOKA in villages or towns to oversee daily life.

In short TMT was an instrument of policy, EOKA a guerrilla organization. I am eager to read the rest of Bir's account because it is the first time I can see this picture emerging. Once we read all of the account the conclusions we draw are not going to be flatering for either side I suspect.

[zan]

Deniz,

Comparing the attitude of the two organizations, EOKA and TMT, towards the "civilians" a picture emerges. EOKA never had the ability or the power to control the GCs the way TMT controlled the TCs.

There were general directions to the population, like the boycot of British goods, but never anything like a local Mr Big who had power over the daily lives ot the people. Perhaps EOKA was too busy with the British to evolve such a controlling force, perhaps it did not want to. There were assassinations of suspected collaborators and a few beatings, but there was no permanent presence of EOKA in villages or towns to oversee daily life.

In short TMT was an instrument of policy, EOKA a guerrilla organization. I am eager to read the rest of Bir's account because it is the first time I can see this picture emerging. Once we read all of the account the conclusions we draw are not going to be flatering for either side I suspect.

Are we talking EOKA A or B here???

[Nikitas]

EOKA means the first and only EOKA. The B lot were not EOKA, they were a different generation, different people.

[zan]

EOKA means the first and only EOKA. The B lot were not EOKA, they were a different generation, different people.

Really...that is not what every GC here has been arguing.....

[Nikitas]

If you were 25 in 1955 (the average age for members) you would be in your 40s in 1970-74, hardly the age for urban guerrillas! Personal experience shows that EOKA B people were in their 20s with a few older people for leaders.

[zan]

If you were 25 in 1955 (the average age for members) you would be in your 40s in 1970-74, hardly the age for urban guerrillas! Personal experience shows that EOKA B people were in their 20s with a few older people for leaders.

They were still called EOKA Does the second generation of Gc not call themselves GC then???

[Nikitas]

It may be an internal GC thing, how we perceive the EOKA. THe first EOKA were fighting the British. The second lot were bombing cars and properties of their fellow GCs, raiding police stations, kidnapping people, always against GCs. They had totally different aims.

After reading Bir's account I would say EOKA B is more like TMT in its actions and aims. The first EOKA is more in line with partisan movements of WWII.

[zan]

It may be an internal GC thing, how we perceive the EOKA. THe first EOKA were fighting the British. The second lot were bombing cars and properties of their fellow GCs, raiding police stations, kidnapping people, always against GCs. They had totally different aims.

After reading Bir's account I would say EOKA B is more like TMT in its actions and aims. The first EOKA is more in line with partisan movements of WWII.

If they were not fighting for ENOSIS as well then you would have a case but as it stands you do not...