Cyprus-Forum.com

[Natty]

VP said:-Taksim was a direct reaction to Enosis,

Well VP what do you think Enosis was a reaction to? Do you think its just possible that it was seen as a defence against Turkish domination of Cyprus.

A dream to gift Cyprus to greece and wipe out the TCs population which was in the way.

That's where you're wrong VP, there was never any mention of Enosis coming hand in hand with the 'the extermination' of the Turkish Cypriot population…although I can see why many Turkish Cypriots feared that something along those lines would happen, you need only look back at the History of Greece and Turkey at that point to understand..

It happened in Crete.......Population exchange and the loss of any rights finally the island.........

That's why I can understand people's fears Zan. In my opinion the ‘enosis idea’ was not dealt with in a very good way, there was no attempt really to put peoples minds at rest, but it's not entirely fair to compare one Island to another, especially when the circumstances were different…

Can you imagine the stories coming out and the killings that went on....Then we see ENOSIS written everywhere and people being killed....

Zan when you say Killings, what do you mean? And are you talking about the period 1955-59? Because if you are I was always led to believe that the vast majority of Turkish Cypriots who were killed during this period were part of the TC auxiliary force that fought against EOKA with the British, so if that's true surely it was only natural that some members were killed? But again I can understand the Turkish Cypriot fears during that period, but can you understand why the vast majority of Greek Cypriots wanted Enosis? (And please don’t say to oppress and ‘exterminate’ the Turkish Cypriots). I remember reading the UN mediator report a while back and it spoke about Enosis and how, on an emotional level the Greek Cypriots were behind the idea 100%, but on practical level the mediator got the impression that people were less inclined towards the idea as there was a certain level of confusion about how things would play out. So if the Greek Cypriots, who had that emotional tug towards the idea were confused and slightly weary, then how must the Turkish Cypriots have felt, who did not have that emotional tug?

They wanted the TCs off the island Natty...How they went about that is in history but the island was not theirs to take and give to Greece.

Zan I can not agree with you when you say that “they wanted the Turkish Cypriots off the Island”, but as you say, Cyprus did/does not 'belong' exclusively to the Greek Cypriots, so the feelings and opinions of the Turkish Cypriot community should have been taken into more consideration, one of the fatal mistakes made on the part of the Greek Cypriots during that period, in my humble opinion..

[denizaksulu]

No, I am asking why the wholesale attack on civilians, something initiated by TMT, way before EOKA did anything like that. It could not have been a "spontaneous reaction" by Turkish Cypriots as a whole.

What could have been the desired outcome of an attack on a normal non provoking neighborhood in Nicosia? My interpretation is given above.

You are suggesting that it was a protest against Enosis, which does not make sense. Why not attack the Archbishop's residence, or some other Greek landmark. Attacking residential areas that ajoined Turkish areas kind of points to a different plan with specific geographical goals. In fact those goals were achieved when the Turkish area was closed off to GCs even to GC garbage collectors. How could garbage collection have anything to do with Enosis!!!!

How could the assassination of TCs be connected to Enosis?

It all happened under the benevolent eye of the British of course. They shoved 3000 Greek Cypriots into the internment camps on mere suspicion but not one Turkish Cypriot was ever even tried for rioting. No one was ever arrested and charged with the murders of those TC journalists and union members. If this does not tell you something then what can I tell you!

Just for the record Nikitas, thousands of young TCs were also interned in Concetration camps and some were also tried.

[zan]

VP said:-Taksim was a direct reaction to Enosis,

Well VP what do you think Enosis was a reaction to? Do you think its just possible that it was seen as a defence against Turkish domination of Cyprus.

A dream to gift Cyprus to greece and wipe out the TCs population which was in the way.

That's where you're wrong VP, there was never any mention of Enosis coming hand in hand with the 'the extermination' of the Turkish Cypriot population…although I can see why many Turkish Cypriots feared that something along those lines would happen, you need only look back at the History of Greece and Turkey at that point to understand..

It happened in Crete.......Population exchange and the loss of any rights finally the island.........

That's why I can understand people's fears Zan. In my opinion the ‘enosis idea’ was not dealt with in a very good way, there was no attempt really to put peoples minds at rest, but it's not entirely fair to compare one Island to another, especially when the circumstances were different…

Can you imagine the stories coming out and the killings that went on....Then we see ENOSIS written everywhere and people being killed....

Zan when you say Killings, what do you mean? And are you talking about the period 1955-59? Because if you are I was always led to believe that the vast majority of Turkish Cypriots who were killed during this period were part of the TC auxiliary force that fought against EOKA with the British, so if that's true surely it was only natural that some members were killed? But again I can understand the Turkish Cypriot fears during that period, but can you understand why the vast majority of Greek Cypriots wanted Enosis? (And please don’t say to oppress and ‘exterminate’ the Turkish Cypriots). I remember reading the UN mediator report a while back and it spoke about Enosis and how, on an emotional level the Greek Cypriots were behind the idea 100%, but on practical level the mediator got the impression that people were less inclined towards the idea as there was a certain level of confusion about how things would play out. So if the Greek Cypriots, who had that emotional tug towards the idea were confused and slightly weary, then how must the Turkish Cypriots have felt, who did not have that emotional tug?

They wanted the TCs off the island Natty...How they went about that is in history but the island was not theirs to take and give to Greece.

Zan I can not agree with you when you say that “they wanted the Turkish Cypriots off the Island”, but as you say, Cyprus did/does not 'belong' exclusively to the Greek Cypriots, so the feelings and opinions of the Turkish Cypriot community should have been taken into more consideration, one of the fatal mistakes made on the part of the Greek Cypriots during that period, in my humble opinion..

The position of the TCs would of been impossible Natty if there was a union with Greece just like in Crete. Another population exchange perhaps. There was a vote in the fifties about ENOSIS and the TCS were not included. Over 90% of GCs said yes to ENOSIS supposedly. What then for the TC population that was excluded from voting.

[boomerang]

Zan you are becoming very boring wit the enosis crap your loosing credibility

Would you like me to stop sir????


I bet you would. History my dear friend...History......My credibility is staked on it.......You keep going on about Turkey and ignore what we the TCs want and don't worry about my credibility. EOKA and ENOSIS was what effected my life and all you want to talk about is 1974.......Why am I not surprised.

Until you get it into your thick heads about why we are here today and how we should get out of it then little old boring me will be here....I can always get Kikapu to make up stories for you if you like.....


Did You hear what the finance minister of the "RoC" said today by the way.....Have you got any links to it...

I think you are starting to lose those few precious marbles zan...

Lose the argument start the insults hey Boomers...

Nothing different with you trying to insulting our intelligence zan...and a poor attempt at that...To lose an argument you need to be in an argument...I was stating facts about your marbles...It wasn't up for negotiation or discussion...

Zan you harping on about we here, we there, we are everywhere, means shit...Turkey decides where you are are and gonna be...so what is the point of you harping about us when you have nothing to do with the price of fish...and please before you go insulting our intelligence further you can't do shit without turkey saying so...and all because your beloved turkey wants it this way...so, go and take your history, your credibility and discuss it with turkey...let me know the outcome...

then come back and demand what ever you want...

ps...I looks like you are the guy that likes excessess, something along the lines of a compulsive behaviour, judging by the amount of smilies that you use...Or it could be interpreted as a pack of wolves or some people need numbers on their side, otherwise they couldn't function, hey zan?

[zan]

Zan you are becoming very boring wit the enosis crap your loosing credibility

Would you like me to stop sir????


I bet you would. History my dear friend...History......My credibility is staked on it.......You keep going on about Turkey and ignore what we the TCs want and don't worry about my credibility. EOKA and ENOSIS was what effected my life and all you want to talk about is 1974.......Why am I not surprised.

Until you get it into your thick heads about why we are here today and how we should get out of it then little old boring me will be here....I can always get Kikapu to make up stories for you if you like.....


Did You hear what the finance minister of the "RoC" said today by the way.....Have you got any links to it...

I think you are starting to lose those few precious marbles zan...

Lose the argument start the insults hey Boomers...

Nothing different with you trying to insulting our intelligence zan...and a poor attempt at that...To lose an argument you need to be in an argument...I was stating facts about your marbles...It wasn't up for negotiation or discussion...

Zan you harping on about we here, we there, we are everywhere, means shit...Turkey decides where you are are and gonna be...so what is the point of you harping about us when you have nothing to do with the price of fish...and please before you go insulting our intelligence further you can't do shit without turkey saying so...and all because your beloved turkey wants it this way...so, go and take your history, your credibility and discuss it with turkey...let me know the outcome...

then come back and demand what ever you want...

ps...I looks like you are the guy that likes excessess, something along the lines of a compulsive behaviour, judging by the amount of smilies that you use...Or it could be interpreted as a pack of wolves or some people need numbers on their side, otherwise they couldn't function, hey zan?

OH DEar....First the spelling police and now the smilie police.....Why don't you ask admin if you can post a quota and then police the whole forum...It might give your idle hands something to do other than play pocket billiards.


If you are so worried about our relationship with Turkey then make us a better offer...NO...Didn't think so....I suppose it is going to come out tomorrow but all hopes of any solution were dashed today with your FM saying that who ever gets not power at the next elections your stand is not going to change so you will not get back to the table so keep your nose out of our affairs. I was at the TRNC consulate yesterday and flying proudly are two flags....Have a guess which two. We have our problems but they are our problems and we will solve them in time but our Turkish brothers are just that. Some are good and some are bad just like in your country.

[Piratis]

About the enosis discussion:

Union with Greece was the the desire of the great majority of the Cypriot people and it was their right. According to the resolutions about decolonization, " integration into an independent State" was one of the 3 legitimate options that the people being decolonized could democratically choose for their own territory.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm
There was nothing criminal about that. Just the right of the Cypriot people that for so many centuries have suffered under foreign rulers and they finally wanted to be liberated like it happened with many other Greek islands and territories (many of which where under the Ottomans for much longer, and had much bigger Turkish minorities living in them)
Union with Greece did not involve human or other violations against Turkish Cypriots or anybody else.

In order to deny this right to Cypriots, Britain and Turkey used the TC minority on the island as an excuse by exploting their justified fears and their greediness.

Even if we assume that some fears that TCs had regarding enosis could be justified, nothing (apart from pure greediness) could justify the divisive and racist constitution for "independence" that was forced on Cypriots on the loss of GCs and for the benefit of TCs.

From the moment that Makarios had accepted to make a compromise and propose independence, Cypriots should have been at least allowed to have a normal democratic free state. They were not even allowed that, and the TC minority was installed as an organ of the foreign powers (by giving to them gifts on our loss) in order to maintain the divide and rule policy and the control of UK/Turkey over Cyprus.

[Piratis]

And another note about EOKA.

EOKA was formed to fight against the colonialists. It did not target the TCs. Any fights between EOKA and TCs happened only after the colonialists turned the TCs against GCs and formed the TMT.

[zan]

Bullshit!!!!

[boomerang]

Zan you are becoming very boring wit the enosis crap your loosing credibility

Would you like me to stop sir????


I bet you would. History my dear friend...History......My credibility is staked on it.......You keep going on about Turkey and ignore what we the TCs want and don't worry about my credibility. EOKA and ENOSIS was what effected my life and all you want to talk about is 1974.......Why am I not surprised.

Until you get it into your thick heads about why we are here today and how we should get out of it then little old boring me will be here....I can always get Kikapu to make up stories for you if you like.....


Did You hear what the finance minister of the "RoC" said today by the way.....Have you got any links to it...

I think you are starting to lose those few precious marbles zan...

Lose the argument start the insults hey Boomers...

Nothing different with you trying to insulting our intelligence zan...and a poor attempt at that...To lose an argument you need to be in an argument...I was stating facts about your marbles...It wasn't up for negotiation or discussion...

Zan you harping on about we here, we there, we are everywhere, means shit...Turkey decides where you are are and gonna be...so what is the point of you harping about us when you have nothing to do with the price of fish...and please before you go insulting our intelligence further you can't do shit without turkey saying so...and all because your beloved turkey wants it this way...so, go and take your history, your credibility and discuss it with turkey...let me know the outcome...

then come back and demand what ever you want...

ps...I looks like you are the guy that likes excessess, something along the lines of a compulsive behaviour, judging by the amount of smilies that you use...Or it could be interpreted as a pack of wolves or some people need numbers on their side, otherwise they couldn't function, hey zan?

OH DEar....First the spelling police and now the smilie police.....Why don't you ask admin if you can post a quota and then police the whole forum...It might give your idle hands something to do other than play pocket billiards.


If you are so worried about our relationship with Turkey then make us a better offer...NO...Didn't think so....I suppose it is going to come out tomorrow but all hopes of any solution were dashed today with your FM saying that who ever gets not power at the next elections your stand is not going to change so you will not get back to the table so keep your nose out of our affairs. I was at the TRNC consulate yesterday and flying proudly are two flags....Have a guess which two. We have our problems but they are our problems and we will solve them in time but our Turkish brothers are just that. Some are good and some are bad just like in your country.

OH DEar....First the spelling police and now the smilie police.....Why don't you ask admin if you can post a quota and then police the whole forum...It might give your idle hands something to do other than play pocket billiards.

All I hear is incoherent noises here zan now I can say for certain, you lost your marbles...the question is can you find them?

If you are so worried about our relationship with Turkey then make us a better offer...NO...Didn't think so....

There is no offer mate...you want something you go and get it...see if your beloved turks let you...I bet they won't...as I said before you will be absorbed and party time with handouts will seize to exist...payback time for turkey...she didn't invest atleast $20 billion the last 33 years for nothing...You will be just an everyday turk...no special priveledges...So your choice is unification or absorbion...and you can sit and tell your grandkids about a liitle population that disappeared from the face of the earth through your absorbion policies of today...good one zan...Again your choice...

I suppose it is going to come out tomorrow but all hopes of any solution were dashed today with your FM saying that who ever gets not power at the next elections your stand is not going to change so you will not get back to the table so keep your nose out of our affairs.

Really zan you are so naive...doesn't matter who gets elected, the property, gifting and etc will be the same...Or you expecct the nextr president to gift you the occupied ancestral lands...Have you really lost your marbles?

I was at the TRNC consulate yesterday and flying proudly are two flags....

There is no consulate Zan...another brainwashing idea...come on tell us the name of the company that its register under...because sure as hell it aint no embassy with consulates...

Have a guess which two. We have our problems but they are our problems and we will solve them in time but our Turkish brothers are just that. Some are good and some are bad just like in your country.

haha yoir make mne laugh by your optisism...just not long ago the generals were bagging your elected officials...what does that tell you?...And as if you have a choice...

Cut the horseshit zan...If the Roc wanted to be vindictive they would agreed to annexation...and you would be howling...you be screaming what about us...well take it up Turkey today so we won't come to that, shall we?
Or
wait for the GC offer...

[halil]

Bullshit!!!!

BULLSHİT