Cyprus-Forum.com

[utu]

UTU said:

"Cynicism and mistrust seem to be the watchword here, and all that does is to entrench positions. Not exactly the most convivial means for reconciliation, is it?"

Utu, while we are going at each other tooth and nail in here, other Cypriots are busy shopping in Ikea and Orphanidis and visiting Casinos. The non intellectual Cypriots maybe have more of an idea of how to solve things than us "intellectuals".

In my grandfather's village the two sides have come to an agreement to rebuild the church, using GC money and TC labor. It was all agreed informally over coffee. When TCs from the village come south they visit former GC residents and bring produce from the village. On a local basis things are happening.
"

Then maybe the politicos need to start looking at the local level. It just goes to show that the higher up one goes, the less grip on reality politicians seem to have. That village you describe shows that there is hope for reconciliation.

[Viewpoint]

utu how long can you try to ignore snide remarks and insults, there comes a time like in 1974 when you have to stand up for what you believe in and fight back.

Like what happened with Expatkiwi? For his pro-independence stance for the north, he ended up getting more than just snide remarks and insults. He faced a direct threat to himself and his family. Not exactly what one expects from a forum.

utu I have faced the same barrage of insults and accusations from GCs and TCs who cannot see or accept that there is different viewpoints on solving the Cyprus problem, they live in some sort of utopia (mostly abroad) and try to dictate to us that we are wrong and what is best for our future. Well what I suggest to those people are firstly return to Cyprus north or south and then decide with more insight to what actually goes on here, see first hand that neither side has any intention of solving jack shit because they lack vision, understanding or courage to compromise in order to find a solution. The opposite to unification is agreed partition which is not as bad as people try to make out it is, we are 90% of the way there anyway.

Since you are so smart and most TC living in the UK and the "TRNC" wants Partition, why have you not proposed to take the 18% and be done with it. You know by now, that the RoC is not going to give you more or allow any formal recognition to the North, so why are you waiting. Why doesn't Talat make a proposal to PapaD and make an even break. Hell, PapaD might even round it up to 20% if you asked nicely. You tell us it's about controlling your own destiny and keeping stolen land is not your aim, then make the proposal. Then you can have whom ever you wished in your "country". As soon as the deal is signed, Kifeas and his crew will start building the 20ft wall for once and for good. From then on, you will be on your own, in bed with Turkey or whom ever, will be your choice entirely. So simple, make the request and see what happens. You are now talking about an "Agreed Partition", since you have given up on the "Forced Partition" because no one is willing to help you get it, and rather than be seen as " Pirates of the Mediterranean", it will do you good to do something honest for a change.

The % of land distribution has been disputed becuase there are many claims by TCs that were conned out of their land during 1963 when their houses were burnt down and chased away or given up as collateral for loans never to be returned.

29% has always been an agreed figure by leaders from both sides,so the proposal has been made but GC again rejected that they want more.. for me 18% is even acceptable as long as I dont have to share anyting with people like you who are out to destroy our community rights and reduce us to minority status in our own country, aint gonna happen Elephant man aka Msss Kikapolousis.

[humanist]

utu, you are an admirable person fighting for the freedoms and independence. if you follow VP's path you will soon be holding a gun and bombs re-enacting the events of 1974 against the evil Greek speaking Cypriots a very peaceful way to resolve conflict. Thank you for pointing out the errors of the Cypriots way.

[Viewpoint]

latest polls are:
According to a recent poll conducted by the self-declared Turkish Republic of North Cyprus, 60 per cent of Turkish Cypriots now favour a two-state solution that would see their population permanently separated from their Greek counterparts on the south of the island along the infamous Green Line border that carves the island in two.


http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article3218049.ece

It all depends who actually voted. In actuality, I'm surprised that the number were not higher, much higher in fact, considering settlers who were "converted" to become Turkish Cypriots stands to lose the most except for a 2 Independent State solution, where they get to keep GC properties for free. So let us be generous and remove 25% of the "settlers factor" and you have about 35% True Turkish Cypriots who had voted in this poll. In 2004 Referendum, the "TRNC" voted 65% on the AP, which many GC's saw it as a Partition Plan at the expense of the RoC, which the TC's had everything to gain and very little to lose. So in actuality, the percentages has gone down from 65% in 2004 to 60% now, and if you remove the 25% "settlers factor", it is down to even lower numbers, which is 35%. The real differential numbers from 2004 to 2007 are 30% less True TC's wanting partition or 2 Independent state solution than they did in 2004. Could it be, that majority of the TC's fear being ruled by Ankara, once they achieve an Independent State .???

I think this new poll is actually works against the "TRNC" and the Partitionist wanting a Partition or a 2 Independent State Solution. The reported was also very much reporting what he was fed by the "TRNC" and not having his own information. I mean, how many partitionist really agree with this

"Turkish Cypriots have started to say if they don't want a solution with us, if they don't want to live with us why should we continue to ask to live together, what is the point? A growing number of Turkish Cypriot's are thinking this every day. The walls between the two peoples are growing taller every day."

Since when did the 200,000 GC refugees been offered to come and live in their properties in the "TRNC" in order to make the above claim.

You still have not countered these numbers Miss Piggy. What's the matter, are you afraid that the Partition is not what the True TC want or what.???

I interact with TCs on a daily for the past 15 years, Ill let others decide which of us really knows what TCs want. How often have you interacted with TCs in their own environment? People are not stupid they can see right through your scarcastic and demeaning posts.

[utu]

The % of land distribution has been disputed becuase there are many claims by TCs that were conned out of their land during 1963 when their houses were burnt down and chased away or given up as collateral for loans never to be returned.

29% has always been an agreed figure by leaders from both sides,so the proposal has been made but GC again rejected that they want more.. for me 18% is even acceptable as long as I dont have to share anyting with people like you who are out to destroy our community rights and reduce us to minority status in our own country, aint gonna happen Elephant man aka Msss Kikapolousis.

If that 29% figure is accurate, then Expatkiwi was more correct than GR. Can one get confirmation either way?

[Viewpoint]

utu, you are an admirable person fighting for the freedoms and independence. if you follow VP's path you will soon be holding a gun and bombs re-enacting the events of 1974 against the evil Greek speaking Cypriots a very peaceful way to resolve conflict. Thank you for pointing out the errors of the Cypriots way.

Is that becuase I want a level playing for both sides? equality for the 2 communities, what you see fit for your side you shoudl also see fit for ours, why are you so against this?

[zan]

There you go with the uneducated 200,000 refugee claim straight out of the GC propaganda book.....Happy reading my friend.

199,999. Happy Now.

If not, then you can tell us which numbers will make it easier for you to sleep at night.

What I would like is for you to educate yourself on facts and not take the GC party line of propaganda. Going down with the ship is no longer a noble thing to do but stupid. The number of times I have disputed those figures and proved them wrong and now even Mr Numbers himself doesn't use them and he has been given a new set of numbers that has no relevance to what we are going through but he still has to use them....He is an addict after all.....Do some research and then come back and quote the real numbers...The GCs got stung on that one before with the shite they were spewing out about the number the TUrks killed that turned out to be TCs....Get with the times baggy boy.......and then you will not make such a fool of yourself.

As for fighting for VP and Mr_from_NG.........With my life. They are my true brothers that are the real unificationists but with heads held high and rights intact. Not bent over the table trying to sew their foreskins back on like you....

Thanks for all the things I did not ask for Zan, but thanks all the same.

Now, please tell me what numbers will you be happy with, so that you can sleep at nights with a clear conscience, that's all.

You have had enough education for one night......Time top rest little one....Tomorrow you can do some research....If you had attended all the classes then you would not ask silly questions and if you think that I am doing your homework for you then think again......

[Viewpoint]

The % of land distribution has been disputed becuase there are many claims by TCs that were conned out of their land during 1963 when their houses were burnt down and chased away or given up as collateral for loans never to be returned.

29% has always been an agreed figure by leaders from both sides,so the proposal has been made but GC again rejected that they want more.. for me 18% is even acceptable as long as I dont have to share anyting with people like you who are out to destroy our community rights and reduce us to minority status in our own country, aint gonna happen Elephant man aka Msss Kikapolousis.

If that 29% figure is accurate, then Expatkiwi was more correct than GR. Can one get confirmation either way?

Through out all negotiations this figure has always been agreed so there must be reasons why its 29% and not 18%, I believe these was the figure prior 1960. But when all is considered can you show me one example where after conflict the land distribution is equated to land ownership or population %, this is yet another GC play to get back land which can in fact be left in the TRNC as long as the ownership is returned on disputed land back to GCs.

[Kikapu]

utu how long can you try to ignore snide remarks and insults, there comes a time like in 1974 when you have to stand up for what you believe in and fight back.

Like what happened with Expatkiwi? For his pro-independence stance for the north, he ended up getting more than just snide remarks and insults. He faced a direct threat to himself and his family. Not exactly what one expects from a forum.

utu I have faced the same barrage of insults and accusations from GCs and TCs who cannot see or accept that there is different viewpoints on solving the Cyprus problem, they live in some sort of utopia (mostly abroad) and try to dictate to us that we are wrong and what is best for our future. Well what I suggest to those people are firstly return to Cyprus north or south and then decide with more insight to what actually goes on here, see first hand that neither side has any intention of solving jack shit because they lack vision, understanding or courage to compromise in order to find a solution. The opposite to unification is agreed partition which is not as bad as people try to make out it is, we are 90% of the way there anyway.

Since you are so smart and most TC living in the UK and the "TRNC" wants Partition, why have you not proposed to take the 18% and be done with it. You know by now, that the RoC is not going to give you more or allow any formal recognition to the North, so why are you waiting. Why doesn't Talat make a proposal to PapaD and make an even break. Hell, PapaD might even round it up to 20% if you asked nicely. You tell us it's about controlling your own destiny and keeping stolen land is not your aim, then make the proposal. Then you can have whom ever you wished in your "country". As soon as the deal is signed, Kifeas and his crew will start building the 20ft wall for once and for good. From then on, you will be on your own, in bed with Turkey or whom ever, will be your choice entirely. So simple, make the request and see what happens. You are now talking about an "Agreed Partition", since you have given up on the "Forced Partition" because no one is willing to help you get it, and rather than be seen as " Pirates of the Mediterranean", it will do you good to do something honest for a change.

I've changed my mind...If you are not Greek then I will eat your boat...If you've really got one that is.....We are not asking anymore big boy..We are demanding our rights.....The day that you voted OXI to the Annan Plan we woke up. No more sleeping.

If it wasn't for Miss Piggy, I would have missed your post. I noticed she did not answer my post either.

Zan, for you to be able to eat my boat, you would need to have a BIG MOUTH......then again, I'm keeping my boat away from you.!!!

Here I am making the most logical suggestion that everyone can walk away happy without a shot being fired that Partitionist want, and that is to take part of Cyprus and be on your own. It does not mean all the TC's will follow you to a 3rd world style of government where the "Pigs will rule the Animal Farm" type of system. No sir, those who do not wish to follow you wanting to go backwards in time, we can choose where we want to stay. You will be surprised just how many TC's will chose to stay with the RoC. No need to insult these TC's who love their country of Cyprus, and do not wish to live in "Turkey" without even leaving the island..

[Kikapu]

latest polls are:
According to a recent poll conducted by the self-declared Turkish Republic of North Cyprus, 60 per cent of Turkish Cypriots now favour a two-state solution that would see their population permanently separated from their Greek counterparts on the south of the island along the infamous Green Line border that carves the island in two.


http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article3218049.ece

It all depends who actually voted. In actuality, I'm surprised that the number were not higher, much higher in fact, considering settlers who were "converted" to become Turkish Cypriots stands to lose the most except for a 2 Independent State solution, where they get to keep GC properties for free. So let us be generous and remove 25% of the "settlers factor" and you have about 35% True Turkish Cypriots who had voted in this poll. In 2004 Referendum, the "TRNC" voted 65% on the AP, which many GC's saw it as a Partition Plan at the expense of the RoC, which the TC's had everything to gain and very little to lose. So in actuality, the percentages has gone down from 65% in 2004 to 60% now, and if you remove the 25% "settlers factor", it is down to even lower numbers, which is 35%. The real differential numbers from 2004 to 2007 are 30% less True TC's wanting partition or 2 Independent state solution than they did in 2004. Could it be, that majority of the TC's fear being ruled by Ankara, once they achieve an Independent State .???

I think this new poll is actually works against the "TRNC" and the Partitionist wanting a Partition or a 2 Independent State Solution. The reported was also very much reporting what he was fed by the "TRNC" and not having his own information. I mean, how many partitionist really agree with this

"Turkish Cypriots have started to say if they don't want a solution with us, if they don't want to live with us why should we continue to ask to live together, what is the point? A growing number of Turkish Cypriot's are thinking this every day. The walls between the two peoples are growing taller every day."

Since when did the 200,000 GC refugees been offered to come and live in their properties in the "TRNC" in order to make the above claim.

You still have not countered these numbers Miss Piggy. What's the matter, are you afraid that the Partition is not what the True TC want or what.???

I interact with TCs on a daily for the past 15 years, Ill let others decide which of us really knows what TCs want. How often have you interacted with TCs in their own environment? People are not stupid they can see right through your scarcastic and demeaning posts.

Fine, then just counter my figures. It should be easy for you to do so, since you know our people better than me. Don't forget something. What they may tell you in your face, may not be what they do when they vote. They are not stupid to leave themselves open to the "Pigs in Animal Farm" to be taken to the "slaughterHouse" for payback.