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Unitary State, Confederation, or Federation?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Piratis » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:30 am

This is where decent people like utu come here and tell you that the propaganda you used to spread has been bypassed now. The internet gives them instant access to files before the 1974 you have been feeding the world for decades. They can see what you did to us and who started what so you can fart in the wind as much as you like. there isn't a single Tc here tthat does not hate you for the lies you are spreading..You have dne us out of our homes and of our rightful place in the republic and now you want more...No more...Enough is enough.


Here you go again spouting your hate propaganda around. The undeniable fact is that Turks started it all (they came to Cyprus to kill and oppress us, we didn't go to Turkey to harm them) and that they slaughtered 10s of thousands of Cypriots and they continue with illegalities and crimes against our island as we speak.

On the other hand the only thing that you can have against us is the few 100s of casualties that you had during a mere decade, during which you committed an equal number of crimes. Thats a drop in the ocean compared with what you did to us, and your lies and gross exaggerations can not hide the truth.
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Postby utu » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:11 am

humanist wrote:You were vilified because you are a clueless idiot who breeds nothing but division and separation of people. Go split up yopur country firsdt before you advocate for mine to be divide you moron.



I'm here to add my opinions to this forum... which I believe is the purpose of the forum after all. In any case, Humanist, I only advicated what the UN, and the leaders of both portions of Cyprus agreed upon several years ago: a bizonal federal state, so I guess that makes the UN clueless as well?
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Postby utu » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:14 am

Get Real! wrote:The RoC is under no obligation to make special political arrangements for the Turkish Cypriots or anyone else for that matter. A modern democratic system complimented by EU membership is all that anyone could ever wish for. End of story.


I'm aware that is how you feel, GR, but in what way? Do you personally believe that the best way to acheive this is in the form of a unitary, non-federal state? Or do you think that given the years of mistrust, some sort of federal system should be set up? As you are living in Cyprus, what would be the pragmatic course to follow?
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Re: Unitary State, Confederation, or Federation?

Postby utu » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:23 am

zan wrote:Independence is not a non starter utu and the more the "RoC" digs its heals in the more likely it is going to be. Taiwan here we come....

The only other option is number three.

Don't worry about the GC right wing reception you are getting here........Only total agreement will do for them otherwise the gangs in trucks that ride in shooting and raping and the police that strip search the women for nothing, like they did to my mother, will be set loose once again...


I probably would be looked upon askance if I was encountered in the RoC controlled part of Nicosia (though better than expatkiwi who would probably be lynched instead!)
That aside, I have heard about the 'Taiwan Model' being applied to the north, but that would only be possible if more nations than just Turkey would end up recognizing the northern administration, and despite words to that effect from Azerbaijan, Gambia, and Bolivia, the UN will make sure they - and other countries - will not follow through. 'TRNC' is regarded under international law as an outlaw government and that is not likely to change.
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Postby humanist » Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:17 am

utu
I'm here to add my opinions to this forum... which I believe is the purpose of the forum after all. In any case, Humanist, I only advicated what the UN, and the leaders of both portions of Cyprus agreed upon several years ago: a bizonal federal state, so I guess that makes the UN clueless as well?


It does not make the UN clueless it makes the UN corrupt. The fact that is based in the US it is enough to tell you a great deal about the UN.
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:22 am

Piratis wrote:
This is where decent people like utu come here and tell you that the propaganda you used to spread has been bypassed now. The internet gives them instant access to files before the 1974 you have been feeding the world for decades. They can see what you did to us and who started what so you can fart in the wind as much as you like. there isn't a single Tc here tthat does not hate you for the lies you are spreading..You have dne us out of our homes and of our rightful place in the republic and now you want more...No more...Enough is enough.


Here you go again spouting your hate propaganda around. The undeniable fact is that Turks started it all (they came to Cyprus to kill and oppress us, we didn't go to Turkey to harm them) and that they slaughtered 10s of thousands of Cypriots and they continue with illegalities and crimes against our island as we speak.

On the other hand the only thing that you can have against us is the few 100s of casualties that you had during a mere decade, during which you committed an equal number of crimes. Thats a drop in the ocean compared with what you did to us, and your lies and gross exaggerations can not hide the truth.


At what stage did you have the opportunity to build a united Cyprus? 1571? or 1960? Where were your human rights and democracy cries for TCs in 1963 Piratis? Clearly trying to peddle a means to obtaining what you desire with no intention of fulfilling the ideology of democracy and human rights, its always been one policy for GCs and another for tCs nothing has changed, actions are necessary to back up claims that GCs are committed to building a united Cyprus where there is no discrimination and persecution of TCs, prove that you ve no intentions of excluding TCs in a 80% 20% imbalance, if you cant then no deal, long live the TRNC and all who live there, which is the trend that is cacthing on not only in the north but also in the EU..keep watching this space as yet again you have shot yourselves in the foot by joining the EU who will in time realize that you are not all you made out to be and do not want union but only control and domination of more land than you already have.
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Postby halil » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:54 am

latest polls are:
According to a recent poll conducted by the self-declared Turkish Republic of North Cyprus, 60 per cent of Turkish Cypriots now favour a two-state solution that would see their population permanently separated from their Greek counterparts on the south of the island along the infamous Green Line border that carves the island in two.


http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article3218049.ece
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Postby humanist » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:13 am

well the 60% Turks may want a two state solution but 80% Cypriots may not ......
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:16 am

halil wrote:latest polls are:
According to a recent poll conducted by the self-declared Turkish Republic of North Cyprus, 60 per cent of Turkish Cypriots now favour a two-state solution that would see their population permanently separated from their Greek counterparts on the south of the island along the infamous Green Line border that carves the island in two.


http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article3218049.ece


People have given up, the momentum of 2004 has been lost and TCs have been able to see first hand what GCs real intentions are, thanks to papdop and his crew. There is just no sincerity or understanding of Tcs and how they view their role in a united Cyprus, the world has told the GCs that any solution will be via a BBF with political equality of the 2 communities but the GCs are still trying to pull away from this fundamental ideology, which will over time ensure division is the only real solution available to the Cyprus problem.
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Postby Bananiot » Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:35 am

What we want is not important. What is feasible is important and nothing else. For example, there were times when enosis was a feasible target (after the 2nd world war) and it could have been pursued by the Greek Cypriots with moderate actions that took into consideration the legitimate interests of all ethnic groups of Cyprus. We decided to pursue enosis in an aggressive manner which aimed at forcing people to see things the way we saw things. We created enemies and alienated large chunks of the population of Cyprus, including those Greek Cypriots who could see beyond their nose and criticised the extreme right wing leaders that took the enosis dream of Greek Cypriots under their wings.

In 1960 we were offered our independence. Many people condemned the London-Zurich agreements and never accepted them. Papadopoulos was one of them. Two years ago, speaking at Intercollege, he apologised for his stance back in 1960 and admitted that the agreements were not that bad after all. Those that did not really accept the agreements started working against them right from the first day. Makarios was one of them who as the President, should have been the guardian of the Constitution. Within the Turkish Cypriot community there were voices against the agreement too. Clearly the independent Cyprus created in 1960 was an anathema to the bigots of both sides who were only interested in pursuing their divisive agendas.

The intercommunal strife that started in 1963 and lasted right up to 1974 created different realities on the ground. The two communities were poisoned by the barbaric acts committed by bigots from both sides. Slowly but steadily it became apparent that the unitary state was unable to put an end to the bloodshed as it was at the same time undermined by strong forces within both communities. The now Greek Cypriot Government was unable to check this tide as itself was practically committed to the dissolution of the unitary state with its acts, by organising, backing and supporting paramilitary fascist organisations.

Yet, more realities were created on the ground in 1974 with the Turkish invasion. The mass movement of population, the arrival of settlers, the inability to reach a quick solution etc, have De facto reduced the options we can even consider as real ones.

I have no doubt that the only real option that exists and can lead to a lasting solution is Bizonal Bicommunal Federation. Central to this solution is the political equality of the two communities and the numerical majorities of the Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots in their respective zone. May be, after 50 or 100 years we can rethink things and look at ways to improve aspect of the solution. Had we been a more mature people, changes could have been performed within a much shorted time period but as things stand now this is difficult to envisage.

In a nutshell, my heart says unitary state but the brain points to BBF. I dread to think what we will become if once again we go after targets that satisfy our desires and kick the feasible, once again, to the sideline.
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