Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Piratis since you always like to back up your arguments with documents i suggest you reread the 1960 constitution to see if we are minority or not....According to the constitution we are one of the two communities forming the republic,the fact that our numbers are less than the GC community doesn't make us a minority in political terms..

Which renders the London-Zurich agreements undemocratic and proves that they were force-fed down our throats.

Those of you who want undemocratic minority crap can go to Sri Lanka and join the Tamil Tigers and needless to mention that your "community that formed half the Republic" ABANDONED the agreements.

Do you know what ABANDONED means Iceman? Do you know what it means to then form a puppet state Iceman???

What makes you think you can USE AND ABUSE the Republic of Cyprus at will???

The "Abandoned" Greek propaganda line died a death a long time ago GR but keep flogging the dead horse........We like to see a fool up shit creek without a saddle... AKRITAS PLAN saw to the role of the TCs in government........

[Piratis]

Stop making up excuses piratis...1960 Constitution which has your (GC) signature is a perfectly legal document...you shouldn't have signed it if you thought it wasn't fair on you.!!!

The legality of a signature is subject to the conditions under which was acquired. If I put a gun on your head and force you to sign a document, the validity of that document can be easily challenged. It is obvious that Turkey and UK blackmailed Makarios and forced him to sign something that was not what Cypriots wanted for their own island.

You defend legality when it suits you but you like the option of rejecting it when it doesn't suit your agenda..

I always defend legality, and part of legality is when people are free to challenge in courts those undemocratic, racist and unfair parameters of constitutions, especially ones that where forcefully imposed on their country by outsiders. So, you stop the illegal occupation, we return to the 1960 agreements, and then we can all challenge those agreements with legal means and without foreign interventions. Any problem with that?

What happened in Cyprus is obvious: The UK and Turkey used the TC minority as an excuse to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination. The solution of the Cyprus problem will come when we will finally rid Cyprus from those foreigners that want to impose on us their will.

The Turkish minority rights in Bulgaria or Greece does NOT interest me at all.!!!

Why you refuse to discuss the issue? What is different with those minorities? Is there anything else different except from the fact that Cyprus is small and has not managed to get rid of its rulers yet, who are using the TC minority as means to divide and control our island?

Murataga, Makarios was forced to sign those agreements in February of 1959. The elections where in December of 1959. If they wanted to listen to what the Cypriot people had to say then they would have allowed a referendum to take place. But they didn't. They didn't want the Cypriot people to decide in a democratic way the destiny of their own island.

[kalahari]

We can also offer you the same hospitality my friend so why don't you encourage people to move to the TRNC.

You really think I'd be so stupid as to move into a territory where there is an illegal army of invasion that numbers twice that of the British armed forces?

Christ Zan, YOU don't live there!

Which brings me back to my original question rather neatly.

Why not come home, Zan?

[Viewpoint]

Stop making up excuses piratis...1960 Constitution which has your (GC) signature is a perfectly legal document...you shouldn't have signed it if you thought it wasn't fair on you.!!!

The legality of a signature is subject to the conditions under which was acquired. If I put a gun on your head and force you to sign a document, the validity of that document can be easily challenged. It is obvious that Turkey and UK blackmailed Makarios and forced him to sign something that was not what Cypriots wanted for their own island.

You defend legality when it suits you but you like the option of rejecting it when it doesn't suit your agenda..

I always defend legality, and part of legality is when people are free to challenge in courts those undemocratic, racist and unfair parameters of constitutions, especially ones that where forcefully imposed on their country by outsiders. So, you stop the illegal occupation, we return to the 1960 agreements, and then we can all challenge those agreements with legal means and without foreign interventions. Any problem with that?

What happened in Cyprus is obvious: The UK and Turkey used the TC minority as an excuse to deny to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination. The solution of the Cyprus problem will come when we will finally rid Cyprus from those foreigners that want to impose on us their will.

The Turkish minority rights in Bulgaria or Greece does NOT interest me at all.!!!

Why you refuse to discuss the issue? What is different with those minorities? Is there anything else different except from the fact that Cyprus is small and has not managed to get rid of its rulers yet, who are using the TC minority as means to divide and control our island?

Murataga, Makarios was forced to sign those agreements in February of 1959. The elections where in December of 1959. If they wanted to listen to what the Cypriot people had to say then they would have allowed a referendum to take place. But they didn't. They didn't want the Cypriot people to decide in a democratic way the destiny of their own island.

Piratis as usual moan moan, cry cry cry, is you signature on the agreement? end of story. Complaining now is not going to get you anywhere but only displays that you are not committed to the 1960 agreements with TCs involved and would so yet again try to go back on your signature that's why this time there has t be heavy penalties to deter any such acts. Why ask us to go back to these agreements? your insincerity is abundant for everyone to see and TCs should be very skeptical about considering such a move.

[Viewpoint]

We can also offer you the same hospitality my friend so why don't you encourage people to move to the TRNC.

You really think I'd be so stupid as to move into a territory where there is an illegal army of invasion that numbers twice that of the British armed forces?

Christ Zan, YOU don't live there!

Which brings me back to my original question rather neatly.

Why not come home, Zan?

Why don't you ask 80% of the forum members the same question, who are individuals who reside abroad but according to them know best when it comes to the Cyprus problem and what we should want living here on a day to day basis.

I appear to be the only person who has come home after 30 years of living abroad and would never consider living in the "RoC" as it is not my country nor does it represent me, as I have said before it would be like going to live in the France or Italy, its foreign and potentially hostile towards people with my ethnic origins.

[zan]

We can also offer you the same hospitality my friend so why don't you encourage people to move to the TRNC.

You really think I'd be so stupid as to move into a territory where there is an illegal army of invasion that numbers twice that of the British armed forces?

Christ Zan, YOU don't live there!

Which brings me back to my original question rather neatly.

Why not come home, Zan?

Kalahari wrote:
Is this the case? Please correct me if I'm wrong.......... Incidentally I don't count fear or pride or resentment as legitimate reasons..................... I sympathise with them, of course, but they represent personal choice, not tyranny.



In your own words Kalahari Try eating them and you might understand where we are coming from because you obviously feel the same way.................................

[kalahari]

No, Zan, you asked me why I'm not encouraging people to go and live in TRNC.

I'm not doing that because it would be hypocritical of me.

It is a territory which is having its day to day life screwed up by the presence of a unilaterally condemned army of occupation. Somebody recently posted a newclipping on this very site which told how border guards were taking chocolate from children as they crossed from the south to the north, for example.

I am not, either, encouraging people from the north or people who feel exiled in other countries to move into the south. I was merely asking why they were not doing so. I was trying to establish if there was a legal (legitimate or otherwise) reason preventing them from doing so, as I am always baffled by people who sit away from the action in a foreign country and constantly whinge on about how they cannot come back.

It transpires that there is nothing preventing people coming back, apart from their own personal life choices. That is my point. That one, there.

I appear to be the only person who has come home after 30 years of living abroad and would never consider living in the "RoC" as it is not my country nor does it represent me, as I have said before it would be like going to live in the France or Italy, its foreign and potentially hostile towards people with my ethnic origins.

I understand your choice, Viewpoint. I sympathise with it. I also understand and sympathise with Zan's and Iceman's choices.

I'm not so sure that your life would be that bad if you did move south over the border – refer back to Kikapu's excellent series of essays when he came back. (Was it Kikapu? I think it was.) \

Anybody who moves anywhere has to learn to keep their inflammatory statements down to a minimum and try to get along with their new neighbours – that's just life.

I just wanted to know if any laws were STOPPING you from coming back. It appears that there are not.

[halil]

I really do not mean to be inflammatory by writing this post.

I simply want to know the reasons, and I am addressing this to you Zan because you are the only poster I know for sure (I think) who is in this situation.

Why do the Turkish Cypriots who have found themselves exiled from their homes in southern Cyprus not return home now?

Is it the case that they believe they will be killed by Greek Cypriots?

Having lived here for a while now, as a foreigner, I am aware of the prejudices one has to put up with, but nevertheless the Greek speaking Cypriots strike me as a peaceable enough bunch, unless you walk into the AEL stand dressed in Appollon colours. Many Turkish speaking Cypriots regularly walk the streets of Greek Lefkosia with complete freedom every day. Why can they not just live there?

Who is stopping them?

If the answer is that the present government of ROC prevents Turkish speaking Cypriots from living in the south, tell me – I want to know, because if this IS the case, then that would make them as guilty of exacerbating the situation as the Ankara generals.

If this is not the case, then why not come home, Zan?

(Excuse my innocence, but with all the politics and history, I don't believe I've ever had a simple answer to this simple question.)

kalahari,
to find answers to your questions why don't u just pass the border and mixed with local people and talk with them face to face and find your answers.İt will be better .
rest of it looks propaganda for me.

[zan]

No, Zan, you asked me why I'm not encouraging people to go and live in TRNC.

I'm not doing that because it would be hypocritical of me.

It is a territory which is having its day to day life screwed up by the presence of a unilaterally condemned army of occupation. Somebody recently posted a newclipping on this very site which told how border guards were taking chocolate from children as they crossed from the south to the north, for example.

I am not, either, encouraging people from the north or people who feel exiled in other countries to move into the south. I was merely asking why they were not doing so. I was trying to establish if there was a legal (legitimate or otherwise) reason preventing them from doing so, as I am always baffled by people who sit away from the action in a foreign country and constantly whinge on about how they cannot come back.

It transpires that there is nothing preventing people coming back, apart from their own personal life choices. That is my point. That one, there.

I appear to be the only person who has come home after 30 years of living abroad and would never consider living in the "RoC" as it is not my country nor does it represent me, as I have said before it would be like going to live in the France or Italy, its foreign and potentially hostile towards people with my ethnic origins.

I understand your choice, Viewpoint. I sympathise with it. I also understand and sympathise with Zan's and Iceman's choices.

I'm not so sure that your life would be that bad if you did move south over the border – refer back to Kikapu's excellent series of essays when he came back. (Was it Kikapu? I think it was.) \

Anybody who moves anywhere has to learn to keep their inflammatory statements down to a minimum and try to get along with their new neighbours – that's just life.

I just wanted to know if any laws were STOPPING you from coming back. It appears that there are not.

There is no LAW, as far as I know, that is stopping you living in Iraq or the Gaza Strip. Have you any intension of going there to live or are there reasons why you would not. You are completely missing the point about why we would not. It is like Russia asking Americans to move in and make that their home and sod the USA. The political reasons are more than reason enough and simplifying the whole thing to legal reasons is infuriating to be exact. It is like the child catcher leaving sweats in the open cage...We have a duty and a history that allows us to think that way and the simple story that Kikapu wrote insults the mind as does your assumptions. We do not see the GC people on the street as the threat but the administration and the system. Because that system tricked its way into the position and got resolutions to back that illegality up does not make it right.

[kalahari]

Halil, you make a very good point.

I have made a decision not to cross the border. Am I right in this decision or not? Please tell me what you think.

Why did I make this decision? I am completely opposed to the presence of the Turks in Northern Cyprus. I cannot see any good reason for their presence. I also find the apathy of the caretaker nations (and come to that the EU and UN) repugnant in this matter.

I feel that to cross the border and to trade with the people in the north would be hypocritical of me. Although I have to admit my mind is slowly changing on this matter. To make matters worse in this personal struggle of mine, I have visited Turkey on occasions and found the native Turkish to be some of the nicest people it has ever been my good fortune to meet. I always tell my Greek Cypriot friends this too. I am nothing if not honest. I resolve this dilemma in my mind by placing the blame for the continued presence of the Turkish troops at the feet of the Denktash regime and the Turkish generals.

I guess what I'm saying is that I feel it would be treacherous of me to go into the North. And perhaps that's the reason why Iceman won't go back to Limassol and Zan won't go back to Cyprus.

Is my feeling of treachery – to my beliefs and my friends – a good enough reason? What are your thoughts?