Cyprus-Forum.com

[iceman]

The fundamental problem that this post has raised, which I admit that up until now I was not aware of, is that there seems to be nothing stopping all the Turkish speaking Cypriots in the north crossing the green line and coming to live in the southern part of the Republic of Cyprus.

Is this the case? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Incidentally I don't count fear or pride or resentment as legitimate reasons. I sympathise with them, of course, but they represent personal choice, not tyranny.

Absolutely not,there is no one holding us back...we do NOT want to come back for the reasons i have tried to explain above..

[kalahari]

Thanks guys, that has been a most illuminating little conversation.

[zan]

The fundamental problem that this post has raised, which I admit that up until now I was not aware of, is that there seems to be nothing stopping all the Turkish speaking Cypriots in the north crossing the green line and coming to live in the southern part of the Republic of Cyprus.

Is this the case? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Incidentally I don't count fear or pride or resentment as legitimate reasons. I sympathise with them, of course, but they represent personal choice, not tyranny.

We can also offer you the same hospitality my friend so why don't you encourage people to move to the TRNC.

[Piratis]

since you always like to back up your arguments with documents i suggest you reread the 1960 constitution to see if we are minority or not

Iceman, you are the 18% and therefore a minority by definition. Regarding the 1960 constitution that was forced on the Cypriot people I already gave the answer in my previous post:

Gains on our loss is exactly what was and is promised to them by Turkey and UK, who have used the TC minority as the vehicle to deny to Cypriots their self determination on their own island, so they could maintain troops on our island and control us.

The 1960 constitution was not a product of democratic choice of the Cypriot people, but something forced on us by outsiders to serve their own interests, and not the interests of the Cypriot people.

If you disagree with what I say, then tell me how exactly the TC minority in Cyprus is different than the Turkish minorities in Greece, Bulgaria or any other territory formerly ruled by the Ottomans.

[zan]

since you always like to back up your arguments with documents i suggest you reread the 1960 constitution to see if we are minority or not

Iceman, you are the 18% and therefore a minority by definition. Regarding the 1960 constitution that was forced on the Cypriot people I already gave the answer in my previous post:

Gains on our loss is exactly what was and is promised to them by Turkey and UK, who have used the TC minority as the vehicle to deny to Cypriots their self determination on their own island, so they could maintain troops on our island and control us.

The 1960 constitution was not a product of democratic choice of the Cypriot people, but something forced on us by outsiders to serve their own interests, and not the interests of the Cypriot people.

If you disagree with what I say, then tell me how exactly the TC minority in Cyprus is different than the Turkish minorities in Greece, Bulgaria or any other territory formerly ruled by the Ottomans.

The island had it's first ever republic with us as a partner and you going round the houses about who is more than the other makes no difference. We negotiated the independence of our island together as partners and we own it also. We didn't take it from you or any body else we signed for it with your signature next to it. It was you that went against that agreement not us.

We are now 100% in the TRNC so you can keep what you took by force and deception because it seems you do not want to get back to the democratic deal that was done.

[iceman]

since you always like to back up your arguments with documents i suggest you reread the 1960 constitution to see if we are minority or not

Iceman, you are the 18% and therefore a minority by definition. Regarding the 1960 constitution that was forced on the Cypriot people I already gave the answer in my previous post:

Gains on our loss is exactly what was and is promised to them by Turkey and UK, who have used the TC minority as the vehicle to deny to Cypriots their self determination on their own island, so they could maintain troops on our island and control us.

The 1960 constitution was not a product of democratic choice of the Cypriot people, but something forced on us by outsiders to serve their own interests, and not the interests of the Cypriot people.

If you disagree with what I say, then tell me how exactly the TC minority in Cyprus is different than the Turkish minorities in Greece, Bulgaria or any other territory formerly ruled by the Ottomans.

Stop making up excuses piratis...1960 Constitution which has your (GC) signature is a perfectly legal document...you shouldn't have signed it if you thought it wasn't fair on you.!!!
You defend legality when it suits you but you like the option of rejecting it when it doesn't suit your agenda..

The Turkish minority rights in Bulgaria or Greece does NOT interest me at all.!!!

[Murataga]

since you always like to back up your arguments with documents i suggest you reread the 1960 constitution to see if we are minority or not

Iceman, you are the 18% and therefore a minority by definition. Regarding the 1960 constitution that was forced on the Cypriot people I already gave the answer in my previous post:

Gains on our loss is exactly what was and is promised to them by Turkey and UK, who have used the TC minority as the vehicle to deny to Cypriots their self determination on their own island, so they could maintain troops on our island and control us.

The 1960 constitution was not a product of democratic choice of the Cypriot people, but something forced on us by outsiders to serve their own interests, and not the interests of the Cypriot people.

If you disagree with what I say, then tell me how exactly the TC minority in Cyprus is different than the Turkish minorities in Greece, Bulgaria or any other territory formerly ruled by the Ottomans.

Makarios III, signed the Agreements, which made the RoC a reality, in front of the whole world clearly putting his honor and word in writing that he accepts the conditions and terms indicated within as the representative of the GC community. Makarios has won an election in 1959 among the GC people with 144,501 votes, while his rival John Clerides who openly refused and resisted the conditions/terms of the Agreements which brought about the existence of RoC got only 71,753 votes and loose. The sole basis of John Clerides` presidential campaign was the condemnation of the Agreements.

[humanist]

iceman

Kalahari
You are asking this question to the wrong person...
First of all,Zan lives in UK,not north Cyprus and secondly i believe his family moved to UK long before 1974..

anyway....lets get beck to your question.
You quoted "Having lived here for a while now, as a foreigner, I am aware of the prejudices one has to put up with, but nevertheless the Greek speaking Cypriots strike me as a peaceable enough bunch,"
The difference between you living amongst GC's and us TC's living there is that we are NOT foreigners...
Instead,according to 1960 Constitution we used to have a share in the present ROC government but your "peaceable" GC's did not like that idea,so using their numerical advantage they took the matter in their own hands to get rid of us (but that is another subject i wont go into now)

You also quote "Many Turkish speaking Cypriots regularly walk the streets of Greek Lefkosia with complete freedom every day. Why can they not just live there? Who is stopping them?"

Walking streets of Nicosia in freedom and living there as a partner in the administration is two completely different things....we do not accept to live in ROC under the same conditions as you foreigners do...we want,at least the rights 1960 constitution gave us and until GC's are willing to give us those rights, the present condition will not change..

hope that clears up your confusion..

iceman that is a great post. On this I would like to pose a question. And that is ........ is there a Turkish speaking Cypriot politician who advocates a return to 1960's constitution? And what rights are you referring too, and how are they not currently given to TC's living in the RoC?

Your coments will be appreciated.

[Get Real!]

Piratis since you always like to back up your arguments with documents i suggest you reread the 1960 constitution to see if we are minority or not....According to the constitution we are one of the two communities forming the republic,the fact that our numbers are less than the GC community doesn't make us a minority in political terms..

Which renders the London-Zurich agreements undemocratic and proves that they were force-fed down our throats.

Those of you who want undemocratic minority crap can go to Sri Lanka and join the Tamil Tigers and needless to mention that your "community that formed half the Republic" ABANDONED the agreements.

Do you know what ABANDONED means Iceman? Do you know what it means to then form a puppet state Iceman???

What makes you think you can USE AND ABUSE the Republic of Cyprus at will???

[Murataga]

Piratis since you always like to back up your arguments with documents i suggest you reread the 1960 constitution to see if we are minority or not....According to the constitution we are one of the two communities forming the republic,the fact that our numbers are less than the GC community doesn't make us a minority in political terms..

Which renders the London-Zurich agreements undemocratic and proves that they were force-fed down our throats.

In case you missed:

Makarios III, signed the Agreements, which made the RoC a reality, in front of the whole world clearly putting his honor and word in writing that he accepts the conditions and terms indicated within as the representative of the GC community. Makarios has won an election in 1959 among the GC people with 144,501 votes, while his rival John Clerides who openly refused and resisted the conditions/terms of the Agreements which brought about the existence of RoC got only 71,753 votes and loose. The sole basis of John Clerides` presidential campaign was the condemnation of the Agreements.

Those of you who want undemocratic minority crap can go to Sri Lanka and join the Tamil Tigers and needless to mention that your "community that formed half the Republic" ABANDONED the agreements.

Do you know what ABANDONED means Iceman? Do you know what it means to then form a puppet state Iceman???

We were ejected by force of arms bacause we refused to have our rights given to us by the Agreements taken away and because we refused to have this island annexed to Greece. The GC criminal regime abused their power in the constitution and devastated he TCs.

What makes you think you can USE AND ABUSE the Republic of Cyprus at will???

We do not think or act like that but you certainly are an inspiration as you have become experts at it in the past 44 years.