Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Clearly there is a need to implement international law, and failing to ensure that occurred seems to have been a major weakness of the GCs since 1974. I guess I'm wondering how this can be rectified, and the full force of the international community brought to bear for liberation/reunification to occur?

Now you're on the right track... now you have the ESSENCE of the "Cyprus Problem" which is none other than the obstruction of international justice being served.

I agree with you. How can this obstruction be removed?

With perseverance the RoC must take the case to the world court and demand that the relevant authorities, such as the UN, act on their past decisions be it in the form of an international embargo, a military intervention, or whatever other option exists against Turkey.

Now do you see why some of us see a “reunification” as absurd? Because it also suggests that we are SANITIZED to the illegal invasion/occupation and have willingly downgraded Turkey’s barbaric acts to a “communal dispute” and that is something we must NEVER allow to happen if justice is ever to be served.

Obviously to you living within a divided island, and understanding the injustices of the situation, this is much, much more than a 'communal dispute'. Could lack of action on the part of the international community be because this is the level at which it is viewed outside the island, particularly as it is more than a generation since the invasion, and there has been 'peace' since 1974?

The RoC fought her case vigorously from the outbreak of the Turkish invasion and the fact that the international community failed to serve justice all these years does not justify or minimize any of Turkey’s past deeds. The resolutions still stand, the international community still recognizes the RoC as the only legitimate government of the entire island so in a way they are contradicting themselves for if they felt that it’s a 'communal dispute' why do they refuse to recognize the “other” community?

[Get Real!]

I am so enjoying this nonsense.......Come on GR...Climb on your soap box again and tell us what re-unification means.... Make sure you wave goodbye to the TRNC whilst you are yup there

You haven't convinced me that you are convinced that it is nonsense...

This fish is not for catching GR...

You are foolishly convinced that it's not in your interests to allow yourself to be "caught". That's all...

[Nikitas]

Talisker,

The guidelines for the solution were set way back in 1977- a biregional, bicommunal federal republic or BBF for short. That was the strategy.

The tactics to get there should be simple but the question is who to talk to, the Turkish Cypriots or the mainland Turks. Read what Turkish Cypriot left wing commentators have to say about the Turkish army and its role on the island. Their comments are more credible than anything a GC could tell you, and they are not ata all flattering to Turkey! And also refer to the results of the latest population census and you will see that there are not many Turkish Cypriots left on the island, they are the minority in the north. So who do you talk to?

As for throwing out the Turkish army by military means, it could be done, if people are prepared to pay the price. But things are not anywhere near the point where that is a necessity, yet.

As for the international community and the word "dispute" well, that word is used whenever there is no vital interest of the major powers to defend. Turkey's unilateral claims against all its neighbors are baptised disputes, at the moment. When they stop calling them dispiutes you will know the situation is changing.

[zan]

Talisker,

The guidelines for the solution were set way back in 1977- a biregional, bicommunal federal republic or BBF for short. That was the strategy.

The tactics to get there should be simple but the question is who to talk to, the Turkish Cypriots or the mainland Turks. Read what Turkish Cypriot left wing commentators have to say about the Turkish army and its role on the island. Their comments are more credible than anything a GC could tell you, and they are not ata all flattering to Turkey! And also refer to the results of the latest population census and you will see that there are not many Turkish Cypriots left on the island, they are the minority in the north. So who do you talk to?

As for throwing out the Turkish army by military means, it could be done, if people are prepared to pay the price. But things are not anywhere near the point where that is a necessity, yet.

As for the international community and the word "dispute" well, that word is used whenever there is no vital interest of the major powers to defend. Turkey's unilateral claims against all its neighbors are baptised disputes, at the moment. When they stop calling them dispiutes you will know the situation is changing.

Firstly, take out all the Pontians and the other non- real- GCs and give us a figure of how many real GCs there are left in the "RoC". You seem keen to split us apart from people that have made the TRNC their home for 30 years but not so keen on doing that for the South......Still a majority is not an answer.

As to the rest....You were talking to Denktas for 25 years a true Cypriot born and bred but you got nowhere and now you are confused about who to talk to.....Talat is ready and waiting for your call as president of the TRNC...

[Talisker]

It seems that all the TCs are good at is sitting on their backsides waiting for the RoC to perform miracles while they harbor and encourage the enemy.

Any notion that the onus is not on them is totally false and simply encourages the continuation of their illegal ways. The TC community is very much responsible for the continued illegal presence of the Turkish army on the island which is in effect holding the country hostage and tied down to absurd blackmails.

So is there a coherent GC strategy for reunification?

What reunification? The word implies that there are two or more states does it not? What Cyprus has is a portion of her territory held captive by a foreign invader, so what Cyprus needs is LIBERATION or for international law to be implemented at last.

GR! - on reflection don't think 'liberation' is the correct term - you are using this from an exclusively GC perspective, and I'm certain that the TCs would not consider themselves to be 'liberated' if or when a solution finally occurs. At present the island is not united, so reunifying is what the GCs (and hopefully at least some TCs) want.

[Talisker]

Clearly there is a need to implement international law, and failing to ensure that occurred seems to have been a major weakness of the GCs since 1974. I guess I'm wondering how this can be rectified, and the full force of the international community brought to bear for liberation/reunification to occur?

Now you're on the right track... now you have the ESSENCE of the "Cyprus Problem" which is none other than the obstruction of international justice being served.

I agree with you. How can this obstruction be removed?

With perseverance the RoC must take the case to the world court and demand that the relevant authorities, such as the UN, act on their past decisions be it in the form of an international embargo, a military intervention, or whatever other option exists against Turkey.

Now do you see why some of us see a “reunification” as absurd? Because it also suggests that we are SANITIZED to the illegal invasion/occupation and have willingly downgraded Turkey’s barbaric acts to a “communal dispute” and that is something we must NEVER allow to happen if justice is ever to be served.

Obviously to you living within a divided island, and understanding the injustices of the situation, this is much, much more than a 'communal dispute'. Could lack of action on the part of the international community be because this is the level at which it is viewed outside the island, particularly as it is more than a generation since the invasion, and there has been 'peace' since 1974?

The RoC fought her case vigorously from the outbreak of the Turkish invasion and the fact that the international community failed to serve justice all these years does not justify or minimize any of Turkey’s past deeds. The resolutions still stand, the international community still recognizes the RoC as the only legitimate government of the entire island so in a way they are contradicting themselves for if they felt that it’s a 'communal dispute' why do they refuse to recognize the “other” community?

Good point, but the fact is that the 'Cyprus problem' is not currently at the forefront of international thinking, and if pressure is required for international law to be enforced, then how can GCs bring about increased awareness of the issue?

Not being an international (or any other) lawyer I have no idea of the processes required for the case to be brought to an international court. Shouldn't the RoC president be knocking on the door of the court every week to get things moving?

[Talisker]

Talisker,

The guidelines for the solution were set way back in 1977- a biregional, bicommunal federal republic or BBF for short. That was the strategy.

Surely this isn't supported by the GCs? Doesn't sound like total reunification to me.

The tactics to get there should be simple but the question is who to talk to, the Turkish Cypriots or the mainland Turks. Read what Turkish Cypriot left wing commentators have to say about the Turkish army and its role on the island. Their comments are more credible than anything a GC could tell you, and they are not ata all flattering to Turkey! And also refer to the results of the latest population census and you will see that there are not many Turkish Cypriots left on the island, they are the minority in the north. So who do you talk to?

GR! helpfully provided me with a link to UN resolution 353, which includes:

'5. Calls upon Greece, Turkey and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to enter into negotiations without delay for the restoration of peace in the area and constitutional government of Cyprus and to keep the Secretary-General informed'.

I'm presuming this gives some indication of which parties should be involved in negotiations even 33 years later.

As for throwing out the Turkish army by military means, it could be done, if people are prepared to pay the price. But things are not anywhere near the point where that is a necessity, yet.

Surely the GCs would need outside help to remove the Turkish army by military means? Not sure I can see any winners with that approach.

As for the international community and the word "dispute" well, that word is used whenever there is no vital interest of the major powers to defend. Turkey's unilateral claims against all its neighbors are baptised disputes, at the moment. When they stop calling them dispiutes you will know the situation is changing.

OK, but isn't this is an opportunity for Cyprus? I mentioned in an earlier post that the 'Cyprus problem' is not at the forefront of current international thinking. However, Turkey's actions against the Kurds are in the news here in the UK virtually every day (e.g. main article on the BBC news webpage yesterday) and presumably around the rest of the world. The reports invariably indicate the Turks to be the aggressors (although I'm sure they will argue that the anti-Kurd actions are defensive). So Cyprus surely needs to bring attention to its own problem through linkage with perceived/actual continuing Turkish aggression. How can the Cypriot government do this more effectively than they have in the past?

[Nikitas]

Talisker,

The mask will have to come off, and it partly has, if and when oil is discovered off the soturhern coast of Cyprus. Turkey has already indicated that she claims the area south of Cyprus, and even if the claim is not valid (as if it could be) the oil belongs to all Cypriots, that is it has laid aside its claim of two nations, two people on the island because it suited her to do so. In more colloquial terms Turkey is playing a "heads I win tails you lose" type of game. But this time it was too much even for Americans who officially stated that the RoC has a right to explore for oil.

As for the BBF solution being supported byt he majority of GCs, well it is. All political parties have adopted it and there is no contrary voice. The problem is what BBF means in practice, a federation like the USA or Switzerland, or partition?

As for expelling Turkey by military means, well it does take military men who can think out of the box and who can appreciate the new technologies that are out there and can cancel out the advantages of a navy and an air force. We do not have such men, and neither does anyone else. All armies still practice square bashing and ours is no exception.

[zan]

Talisker,

The mask will have to come off, and it partly has, if and when oil is discovered off the soturhern coast of Cyprus. Turkey has already indicated that she claims the area south of Cyprus, and even if the claim is not valid (as if it could be) the oil belongs to all Cypriots, that is it has laid aside its claim of two nations, two people on the island because it suited her to do so. In more colloquial terms Turkey is playing a "heads I win tails you lose" type of game. But this time it was too much even for Americans who officially stated that the RoC has a right to explore for oil.

As for the BBF solution being supported byt he majority of GCs, well it is. All political parties have adopted it and there is no contrary voice. The problem is what BBF means in practice, a federation like the USA or Switzerland, or partition?

As for expelling Turkey by military means, well it does take military men who can think out of the box and who can appreciate the new technologies that are out there and can cancel out the advantages of a navy and an air force. We do not have such men, and neither does anyone else. All armies still practice square bashing and ours is no exception.

When the USA said that the "RoC" has a right to explore for oil it had no technical choice but to say that. This is on the assumption that it is for the whole of Cyprus and not just the south. As this is clearly not the case, as the discrimination of the Embargoes shows, then the right does not exist.

[boomerang]

Talisker,

The mask will have to come off, and it partly has, if and when oil is discovered off the soturhern coast of Cyprus. Turkey has already indicated that she claims the area south of Cyprus, and even if the claim is not valid (as if it could be) the oil belongs to all Cypriots, that is it has laid aside its claim of two nations, two people on the island because it suited her to do so. In more colloquial terms Turkey is playing a "heads I win tails you lose" type of game. But this time it was too much even for Americans who officially stated that the RoC has a right to explore for oil.

As for the BBF solution being supported byt he majority of GCs, well it is. All political parties have adopted it and there is no contrary voice. The problem is what BBF means in practice, a federation like the USA or Switzerland, or partition?

As for expelling Turkey by military means, well it does take military men who can think out of the box and who can appreciate the new technologies that are out there and can cancel out the advantages of a navy and an air force. We do not have such men, and neither does anyone else. All armies still practice square bashing and ours is no exception.

When the USA said that the "RoC" has a right to explore for oil it had no technical choice but to say that. This is on the assumption that it is for the whole of Cyprus and not just the south. As this is clearly not the case, as the discrimination of the Embargoes shows, then the right does not exist.

There is only one RoC zan... ...and the world doesn't revolve around what you and the pirates of the mediterenean think...